Bible Study Die And Go To Heaven

[Jack Hectorman]

Originally Posted By Solomon
"Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
and the wheel broken at the well,
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it."
Eccl. 12: 6-7
__________

Some have argued that Eccl. 12:6-7 holds against
"soul sleep." They have noted the contrast between:

(1) the grave ["the dust returns to the ground it came from"]

and

(2) the return ["the spirit returns to God who gave it"]

And they have asserted that exegetically the phrase
"the spirit returns to God" seems inharmonious with
the notion of "soul sleep."

I just mentioned Eccl. 12: 6-7 for consideration. I don't know
how much it actually proves? My opinion is we have to be
very careful doing an exegesis of any Biblical text, and
especially an Old Testament text, because its easy to
impose our whims and prejudices upon the language
and thereby force the O.T. writer to "say what we want
him to say." This, imo, is how the cults can "prove" just
about any weird doctrine they want to "prove." For
example I have seen JW's fill up threads with a never
ending stream of "proof texts" that, on their lights,
"proved" that the traditional doctrine of the Holy Trinity
was unbiblical.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

 

[for_his_glory]

That is why it is so important to compare the OT with the NT as we compare scripture with scripture and read word for word and not verse by verse or chapter by chapter as when you read word for word the Holy Spirit then reveals full meaning of book, chapter and verse. When others try to teach us we need to learn to discern what spirits are speaking whether they be of truth or error.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[kickedoutofchurch]

I heard someone say on the forum, (I forget who) who said that when we die we immediately go to heaven.
Is this statement true?

I believe it is EVEN better than that! Check this out:

Ask yourself "Where is Christ?" We already know this, but I love to review the scripture often.

he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms (Eph 1:20)

So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19)

Now, where are "we" who are true believers right now? (This is going to blow your minds!)

and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6)

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God (Col 3:1)

having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead (Col 2:12)

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ (Phil 3:20)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels (Heb 12:22)

This going "with" Jesus is not optional!

If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him (John 12:26)

There's more if anyone is interested! Unreal huh? True believers are IN HEAVEN right now! Jesus even told us the "kingdom of heaven is WITHIN US" See Luke 17:21 We have to remember that we can't SEE HEAVEN or the spiritual realm because we are still in "darkened" or spiritually dead bodies. Thus, our body and soul is still veiled to God and Heaven because of the power of sin in our bodies yet. I believe as soon as our natural bodies die we will IMMEDIATELY see where we are right now. I know this is very hard to believe, but that is what God's Word says. We are in Heaven right now!

we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8)

Kicked

 

[Edward]

I believe it is EVEN better than that! Check this out:

Ask yourself "Where is Christ?" We already know this, but I love to review the scripture often.

he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms (Eph 1:20)

So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19)

Now, where are "we" who are true believers right now? (This is going to blow your minds!)

and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6)
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God (Col 3:1)

having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead (Col 2:12)

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ (Phil 3:20)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels (Heb 12:22)

This going "with" Jesus is not optional!

If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him (John 12:26)

There's more if anyone is interested! Unreal huh? True believers are IN HEAVEN right now! Jesus even told us the "kingdom of heaven is WITHIN US" See Luke 17:21 We have to remember that we can't SEE HEAVEN or the spiritual realm because we are still in "darkened" or spiritually dead bodies. Thus, our body and soul is still veiled to God and Heaven because of the power of sin in our bodies yet. I believe as soon as our natural bodies die we will IMMEDIATELY see where we are right now. I know this is very hard to believe, but that is what God's Word says. We are in Heaven right now!

we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8)

Kicked

Bravo Brother! I was intending to post much the same thing and you have done well to do so. I totally agree, for this is what scripture tells us. Indeed, right now we are with Him. This may be hard to fathom for some (most?), but consider that we know very little about the spiritual realm and spiritual beings and how it all works. It is my understanding or belief that spiritual beings have the capability of being in multiple places at once.

 

[Angel]

Hmm...
...
I don't know which to believe... Though I do appreciate the information...
Heavy stuff.
Guess I'm not there yet.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

good aim, to seek God, and everyone may be wrong. (the whole world is wrong, after all!)
i don't for one second believe everyone is wrong, but
realize that it is a long way from everyone being 'right' - so, simply keep on trusting God, seeking Him, and let Him show you as He Will. and in His Time. (maybe today, tomorrow, or next year).
God is HAPPY TO SHOW HIS WILL, to those who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose.
so trust Him, rest in Him, in Jesus; keep seeking God, and do whatever you know is right. He will take care of everything, start to finish!

a few references for joyful reading> (from quiksearch)
K9 Safe Search
About 20,400 results
(0 results blocked on this page)
Proverbs 3:5-12 MSG - Trust GOD from the bottom of your ...
5-12 Trust God from the bottom of your heart; don’t try to figure out everything on your own. Listen for God ’s voice in everything you do, everywhere you go;www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+3%3A5-12&...
Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV - Trust in the LORD with all your heart ...
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+3%3A5-6&...
BibleGateway - Quick search: trust God - BibleGateway.com: A ...
But select capable men from all the people—men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain—and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds ...www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=trust+God&...
Romans 4:3-5 MSG - Trusting God - So how do we fit what we ...
Trusting God - So how do we fit what we know of Abraham, our first father in the faith, into this new way of looking at things? If Abraham, by what he did for God ...www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+4:3-5&...
BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: trust in God
Who among you fears the Lord and obeys the word of his servant? Let the one who walks in the dark, who has no light, trust in the name of the Lord and rely on their Godwww.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=trust%20in%20God&...
BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: trust God
Yet in spite of this word you did not believe (trust, rely on, and remain steadfast to) the Lord your God,www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=trust+God&search...
Proverbs 3 CEV - Trust God - My child, remember my - Bible ...
Trust God - My child, remember my teachings and instructions and obey them completely. They will help you live a long and prosperous life. Let love and loyalty always ...www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+3&version=CEV
BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: trust God
The Lord recompense thy work, and a full reward be given thee of the Lord God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to trust.www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=trust+++God&search...
Proverbs 3:5-6 NKJV - Trust in the LORD with all your heart ...
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+3%3A5-6&...
Proverbs 3:5 ESV - Trust in the LORD with all your heart ...
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

 

[Edward]

I believe it is EVEN better than that! Check this out:

Ask yourself "Where is Christ?" We already know this, but I love to review the scripture often.

he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms (Eph 1:20)

So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19)

Now, where are "we" who are true believers right now? (This is going to blow your minds!)

and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6)
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God (Col 3:1)

having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead (Col 2:12)

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ (Phil 3:20)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels (Heb 12:22)

This going "with" Jesus is not optional!

If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him (John 12:26)

There's more if anyone is interested! Unreal huh? True believers are IN HEAVEN right now! Jesus even told us the "kingdom of heaven is WITHIN US" See Luke 17:21 We have to remember that we can't SEE HEAVEN or the spiritual realm because we are still in "darkened" or spiritually dead bodies. Thus, our body and soul is still veiled to God and Heaven because of the power of sin in our bodies yet. I believe as soon as our natural bodies die we will IMMEDIATELY see where we are right now. I know this is very hard to believe, but that is what God's Word says. We are in Heaven right now!

we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8)

Kicked

Hey, how about that? Sid Roths guest on this show speaks of this very thing. Enjoy

 

[kickedoutofchurch]

Bravo Brother! I was intending to post much the same thing and you have done well to do so. I totally agree, for this is what scripture tells us. Indeed, right now we are with Him. This may be hard to fathom for some (most?), but consider that we know very little about the spiritual realm and spiritual beings and how it all works. It is my understanding or belief that spiritual beings have the capability of being in multiple places at once.

Edward,

I am very excited to see the Lord has revealed this to you too! This is impossible to believe from our natural mind. I drive around and work each day thinking "am I working in Heaven right now and simply don't realize it?" Crazy and AWESOME things to think about... "things 'above'" or the higher realm.

God bless,

kicked

 

[eddif]

Kicked posted
There's more if anyone is interested! Unreal huh? True believers are IN HEAVEN right now! Jesus even told us the "kingdom of heaven is WITHIN US" See Luke 17:21 We have to remember that we can't SEE HEAVEN or the spiritual realm because we are still in "darkened" or spiritually dead bodies. Thus, our body and soul is still veiled to God and Heaven because of the power of sin in our bodies yet. I believe as soon as our natural bodies die we will IMMEDIATELY see where we are right now. I know this is very hard to believe, but that is what God's Word says. We are in Heaven right now!

Thanks for your post

I am always amazed at how we see things. Some take physical trips, while others take mental trips in the mind.

Romans 1:19-20 basically says we can understand God by looking at his creation. My toes have representation in my mind by nerves (the mind can order movement by the spiritual parallel nerves). IMHO we have heaven now by Jesus with the Father and the indwelling Holy Spirit helping with communication. I believe we can see heaven now.

Revelation 4:1-2. Is but a completion of Acts 2:16-17
John while alive was caught up to understand heaven. It also (IMHO) is revealed in our body Biology. Dreams and visions are started at Pentecost for Sons and Daughters.

We are made in the image of God (Genesis). The symbols of our being the potential tabernacle of God are in us. Revelation 3: 20 suggests we open the door. With Holy Spirit present : He is in us , and we are seated in heavenly places.

The evidence of scripture and His Biology helps us understand life.

At the last trump this present flesh is changed, and post judgement eternity is better still. The resurrection has not passed, so there are changes to come.

eddif

 

[JLB]

I believe it is EVEN better than that! Check this out:

Ask yourself "Where is Christ?" We already know this, but I love to review the scripture often.

he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms (Eph 1:20)

So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19)

Now, where are "we" who are true believers right now? (This is going to blow your minds!)

and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6)
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God (Col 3:1)

having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead (Col 2:12)

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ (Phil 3:20)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels (Heb 12:22)

This going "with" Jesus is not optional!

If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him (John 12:26)

There's more if anyone is interested! Unreal huh? True believers are IN HEAVEN right now! Jesus even told us the "kingdom of heaven is WITHIN US" See Luke 17:21 We have to remember that we can't SEE HEAVEN or the spiritual realm because we are still in "darkened" or spiritually dead bodies. Thus, our body and soul is still veiled to God and Heaven because of the power of sin in our bodies yet. I believe as soon as our natural bodies die we will IMMEDIATELY see where we are right now. I know this is very hard to believe, but that is what God's Word says. We are in Heaven right now!

we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8)

Kicked

Great post Brother!

Amen!

 

[ironmonk]

What TOG said is not the opinion of a great number of theologians. It is something to consider though, in light of some Scripture. When I compare the different opinions of the "soul sleep" and those who believe that absent from the body is present with the Lord, I lean toward the latter. TOG is no dummy, and has Scripture based convictions. Perhaps he would like to give us some of his Scriptures so that we can consider both sides.

It's interesting you say it's not the opinion of the many but some, which opinion is true if the bible holds both.

 

[TimothyW]

I heard someone say on the forum, (I forget who) who said that when we die we immediately go to heaven.
Is this statement true?

I don't know if that statement is true or not, because the Bible never actually comes right out and says that.

What is more important to me is that I (along with everyone else) will be resurrected from death and we will all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, and He will determine whether or not we will receive eternal life. Eternal life is his promise to those who put their faith in him.

So while I do not know for sure whether Christians go to heaven immediately when they die, my belief is that we remain dead until Jesus Christ resurrects us, and then we have eternal life with him. Lazarus was dead in the tomb until Jesus Christ resurrected him. Then he was alive again. I believe the resurrection on the last day will be like that.

 

[Angel]

Thnx for your thoughts.

 

[Butch5]

I heard someone say on the forum, (I forget who) who said that when we die we immediately go to heaven.
Is this statement true?

No, it's not. There's nothing in the Scriptures that say believers go to heaven when they die. Believers will be resurrected to live in a restored creation. In the beginning God's intention was for man to have dominion over the creation, that's still His plan.

 

[Kathi]

How do you know this for sure?

Because the Bible tells us this.Everything in scripture is true.It is 24 love letters from God and how he wants us to live.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Because the Bible tells us this.Everything in scripture is true.It is 24 love letters from God and how he wants us to live.

What school did you go to ? (Is that the higher math ? ) (24)

 

[Kathi]

What school did you go to ? (Is that the higher math ? ) (24)

I am sorry I don't know where I got that number from.There are more like 66.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

I am sorry I don't know where I got that number from.There are more like 66.

Let's count some that aren't Scripture. 143,296,932,112 to be exact.

 

[Kathi]

Let's count some that aren't Scripture. 143,296,932,112 to be exact.

Books of the Holy Bible? I don't understand.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Because the Bible tells us this.Everything in scripture is true.It is 24 love letters from God and how he wants us to live.

Books of the Holy Bible? I don't understand.