[_ Old Earth _] Dinosaurs ?

[Barbarian]

Even the Bible speaks of dinosaurs living with mankind, in Job's time, who some say lived before the Flood.

Can't be. Dinosaurs, being reptiles, did not have external "stones." Whatever it was, was a mammal.

 

[turnorburn]

Can't be? who said that?

tob

 

[Barbarian]

It's just a fact. "Stones" are internal on dinosaurs, so the author was speaking of a mammal.

 

[turnorburn]

Who is the author and where does he get his facts?

tob

 

[rthom7]

It's just a fact. "Stones" are internal on dinosaurs, so the author was speaking of a mammal.

Well Barbarian you're assuming the Hebrew word pachard means stone ? In all 48 occurrences it means "Fear" not show a meaning to stone, or testicles or even thigh. Rather than nit pick on Hebrew words hardly used and no sure what was intended as to its meaning, why not concentrate on the Hebrew words we can be certain of ?

Job 40:15 ¶ Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

The animal is large, is a herbivore, has a tail like a cedar tree. with heavy strong bones....

Now I do not know of any mammal large, with a large tail, and heavy strong bones....
More likely a dinosaur...

And again you're assuming all prehistoric animals were reptiles, and that all reptiles have internal sexual gonads, we are not sure if this was so for all dinosaur like animals....

Secondly "the sinews of his stones are wrapped together." does not say the stones are external anyway....sinews are things internal, so maybe it saying the stones are internally sinewed and wrapped together... Just as reptiles have them....

Job 40:21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

How many large mammals lay under reeds, tree ferns and such fens, in brook like swamps? dinosaurs did

I think you are nit picking grammar because the implications are opposing a viewpoint you have, forgive me if I am wrong, but how does this phrase say anything specific about these "stones" anyway ?

The other phrases in Job are easier to figure out, so why not go with these ?

Shalom

 

[Barbarian]

Too many "well, maybe"s for me. Why not just take it as it is?

 

[rthom7]

Too many "well, maybe"s for me. Why not just take it as it is?

I am intrigued Barbarian, I suppose evolution is your theory of faith , are you saying Adam and Eve were made millions of years after the Dinosaurs in the Creation Account ? That perhaps GOD allowed natural selection to occur for millions of years , than made Adam and Eve came after the death and decay process happen for some time?

And just exactly where in the Genesis account is your theory actually written there ?
Is not GOD greater than human inventions and His power greater than ours ? Is there nothing too hard that GOD cannot do? You seem to make GOD into something that requires natural laws helping His cause ? My GOD is greater than that ....

Shalom

 

[Barbarian]

I am intrigued Barbarian, I suppose evolution is your theory of faith

Scientific theories are based on evidence, not faith.

are you saying Adam and Eve were made millions of years after the Dinosaurs in the Creation Account

It doesn't say how long.

That perhaps GOD allowed natural selection to occur for millions of years

It's His creation. Who are we to demur?

than made Adam and Eve came after the death and decay process happen for some time?

Natural selection isn't about death and decay. Like so many other things in nature, His creations develop in spite of death and decay.

And just exactly where in the Genesis account is your theory actually written there ?

Right after He tells us about protons and nuclear fusion. Not everything that's true, is in the Bible.

Is not GOD greater than human inventions and His power greater than ours ?

Yep. It's why engineers are now using evolutionary processes to solve problems that can't be done by design. Genetic algorithms are mimicking nature, and doing all sorts of engineering breakthroughs. God is a lot smarter and more capable than creationists think He is.

Is there nothing too hard that GOD cannot do?

Well, He sure did a better job of creating living things than we would have. Who would have figured out that random variation and natural selection would be most effective?

You seem to make GOD into something that requires natural laws helping His cause ?

I'm just in awe of His wisdom and majesty. He made natural laws, to do what He chose to do. Hence His statement in Genesis that the earth brought forth life as He intended. Hes the Creator, not some little middle-eastern nature deity, poofing things into existence.

My GOD is greater than that ....

It appears that He's greater than you'd like Him to be.

 

[Barbarian]

Who is the author

He's the Author. Capital A.

and where does he get his facts?

He created them. Along with everything else.

 

[turnorburn]

What is the authors name?

tob

 

[rthom7]

Scientific theories are based on evidence, not faith.



It doesn't say how long.



It's His creation. Who are we to demur?



Natural selection isn't about death and decay. Like so many other things in nature, His creations develop in spite of death and decay.



Right after He tells us about protons and nuclear fusion. Not everything that's true, is in the Bible.



Yep. It's why engineers are now using evolutionary processes to solve problems that can't be done by design. Genetic algorithms are mimicking nature, and doing all sorts of engineering breakthroughs. God is a lot smarter and more capable than creationists think He is.



Well, He sure did a better job of creating living things than we would have. Who would have figured out that random variation and natural selection would be most effective?



I'm just in awe of His wisdom and majesty. He made natural laws, to do what He chose to do. Hence His statement in Genesis that the earth brought forth life as He intended. Hes the Creator, not some little middle-eastern nature deity, poofing things into existence.



It appears that He's greater than you'd like Him to be.

Actually Creation does say how long it took, six literal 24 hours of earth time.... no scholar denies "yom" means a "day" of time, evening and morning.

All animals were made on the same day, including Adam, mammals and reptiles as well as dinosaurs.....

Job confirms Creation account....

(the stones thing you raise is avoiding the context and conclusion)

Job is evidence the Creation account is true.... hence why I use it !!! So does Answers in Genesis, and whole scores of Creation Scientists !!

Shalom

 

[Pizza]

I am intrigued Barbarian, I suppose evolution is your theory of faith...

That is a strawman argument. It is clear that "Barbarian"'s faith is in the God of the Bible and in Jesus.

You probably did not mean to be offensive, but you were. (I have done the same thing here.)

 

[rthom7]

That is a strawman argument. It is clear that "Barbarian"'s faith is in the God of the Bible and in Jesus.

You probably did not mean to be offensive, but you were. (I have done the same thing here.)

Sorry if I was offensive Pizza, but most Christian denominations world wide believe that Evolution had a part to play in Creationism, indeed some Christian religions say the Creation account is story and not a scientific account of how animals have come to be today. However the Christian scientists in Answers in Genesis make Creationism as it literally reads in Scripture into a Scientific theory that can be tested based on the predictions Creationism makes.

For example if man lived at the time of the dinosaurs, in fact all animals lived at the same time, we can predict one should be able to find living fossils of every animal and plant family in museums showing dinosaurs, and we do find this... it's just the museums do not place them on show, they keep the modern animals and plants in the back rooms.

Shalom

 

[Pizza]

Sorry if I was offensive Pizza,

You did not offend ME - you called "Barbarin's faith and walk with the Lord into question. I don't agree with all he posts, but I am confident in his walk with the Lord.

For example if man lived at the time of the dinosaurs, in fact all animals lived at the same time, we can predict one should be able to find living fossils of every animal and plant family in museums showing dinosaurs, and we do find this... it's just the museums do not place them on show, they keep the modern animals and plants in the back rooms.

Do you really believe that 'museums' are all dishonest? Our side says, "We know it is this way 'cause we just do." The evolutionists say, "We know it is this way because we have followed the evidence", admittedly with a preconceived idea of what they are looking for, but his is the same as AIG.

In either case, we are dependent on MAN's interpretation of the evidence, as well as man's interpretation of the bible verses.


At the age of 54, after walking with my Lord for 37 years, I am convinced that the truth is in between the two. I am also convinced that, while we on the Christian side try so hard to labor these points, we miss the grand and glorious intent of the Bible and Jesus' redemptive act on the cross: To bring all of man to Him as Savior.

Do you REALLY think our minds can comprehend all of creation? God is an infinite entity in so many ways - and a four billion year old creation is about as infinite as you can get. I can wrap my head around 6000 years, but 4 billion? No way.

I lean toward a very old earth - but I don't make any bold statements either way. Even after 37 years.

 

[rthom7]

You did not offend ME - you called "Barbarin's faith and walk with the Lord into question. I don't agree with all he posts, but I am confident in his walk with the Lord.


Do you really believe that 'museums' are all dishonest? Our side says, "We know it is this way 'cause we just do." The evolutionists say, "We know it is this way because we have followed the evidence", admittedly with a preconceived idea of what they are looking for, but his is the same as AIG.

In either case, we are dependent on MAN's interpretation of the evidence, as well as man's interpretation of the bible verses.


At the age of 54, after walking with my Lord for 37 years, I am convinced that the truth is in between the two. I am also convinced that, while we on the Christian side try so hard to labor these points, we miss the grand and glorious intent of the Bible and Jesus' redemptive act on the cross: To bring all of man to Him as Savior.

Do you REALLY think our minds can comprehend all of creation? God is an infinite entity in so many ways - and a four billion year old creation is about as infinite as you can get. I can wrap my head around 6000 years, but 4 billion? No way.

I lean toward a very old earth - but I don't make any bold statements either way. Even after 37 years.

You write well Pizza, have you ever listened to the Professor Jewish Gerald Schroeder on the U Tube videos ?

The theory of time based on relativity has been in Scripture all along? Can not God make time look when in reality it's not ? Actually time as an age process does not exist, many website scientists admit this... we look old as we journey around the sun because mutations make mistakes in the young processes of rebuilding our proteins...technically the molecules and atoms of our very being do not age...so while we are all around 3 months old, every protein is always being rebuilt, the mutations make us rebuilt what we had before...hence mistakes just us look old, its an illusion....some also say the telomeres have built in aging processes too.

the word yom, owlam and others is not a time word, but a moving of objects relative to space...a journey of current events....if you will....time does not age things.... Scientists hood wink assumptions of time upon us....

does time exist?

Now a Scripture suggesting time is relative....

Ge 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

There are two process of journey here, generation is a word for family to family, and day is a journey of the earth around the sun (technically the rotation of earth into the light of the sun) both of these different processes occurred on the same current event...how ? Einstein say time is relative....not absolute

Schroeder speaks of space stretching ...again time is relative....

So while our earth is technically young it also looks old...

Hope this helps
SHalom

 

[Pizza]

Still watching both, when I have time.

Im not so sure of Mr. Barbour's thinking...

 

[Pizza]

A friend of mine shared this, her friend made this post on Facebook yesterday.

The caption reads:
So my dad the (guy in the maroon sweatshirt) and these guys were digging a pond and unearthed the remains of a 11,000 year old mastodon as confirmed by Michigan State University in Bellevue Michigan.
View attachment 5712

Actually, I am amazed that science believes that thing lived there ONLY 11,000 years ago.

 

[TOG]

The last mammoths were on Wrangle Island about 2000 BC.

The TOG​

 

[turnorburn]

Those picture we see of Wooly Mammoths are an artists rendition, why would they need wool before the flood the earth was like a greenhouse..

tob

 

[rthom7]

A friend of mine shared this, her friend made this post on Facebook yesterday.

The caption reads:
So my dad the (guy in the maroon sweatshirt) and these guys were digging a pond and unearthed the remains of a 11,000 year old mastodon as confirmed by Michigan State University in Bellevue Michigan.
View attachment 5712

Actually, I am amazed that science believes that thing lived there ONLY 11,000 years ago.

Actually Pizza get your dad to fund the payment of Carbon 14 dating of the bone interior to three separate labs, without telling them the expected age, and post the results for us will be a better test...rather than a University tell us the age they want us to hear....
the Mastodons last died out 11,000 years ago.