Do Denominational Differences Really Matter?

[Corn Pop]

What do you mean by "hail Mother Teresa?".

Do you really care?. Ok, i will change it to mother of pearl.

It was just a figure of speech that has no meaning. Its better than cursing.

 

[ezra]

obama claims to be a christian bill Clinton claimed to be a christian would mike huckabee be ok a southern baptist preacher?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do you really care?. Ok, i will change it to mother of pearl.

It was just a figure of speech that has no meaning. Its better than cursing.

Oh, I never heard that one before.
I'm always the last to know.

 

[MrWGW]

As an Orthodox Christian I have to say "yes," because doctrine matters, however, I shy away from the exclusivist approach favored by the Old Calendarist sort and am a proponemt of ecumenical reconciliation. The extent to which this will actually happen however seems impaired by doctrinal instability in certain mainline churches; a century ago for example, if one reads the literature of the time, it would have seemed inevitable that Anglicans amd Orthodox would have entered into communion (probably with the Union of Utrecht), whereas now, due to the influence of modernism and postmodern theology in Anglicanism and the Utrecht churches, and innovations in diverse areas including the ordination of women, human sexuality et cetera, such a reconciliation seems ... unlikely.

 

[Corn Pop]

Oh, I never heard that one before.
I'm always the last to know.

Neither had i heard it before. I kind of made it up on the spot. lol.

Freedom of religion. That could possibly become the next movement. The Church of the Hail Mother Teresas. lol.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Neither had i heard it before. I kind of made it up on the spot. lol.

Freedom of religion. That could possibly become the next movement. The Church of the Hail Mother Teresas. lol.

Oh? Is she SDA?
Because this is an SDA thread y'know.
Right I Love?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

As an Orthodox Christian I have to say "yes," because doctrine matters, however, I shy away from the exclusivist approach favored by the Old Calendarist sort and am a proponemt of ecumenical reconciliation. The extent to which this will actually happen however seems impaired by doctrinal instability in certain mainline churches; a century ago for example, if one reads the literature of the time, it would have seemed inevitable that Anglicans amd Orthodox would have entered into communion (probably with the Union of Utrecht), whereas now, due to the influence of modernism and postmodern theology in Anglicanism and the Utrecht churches, and innovations in diverse areas including the ordination of women, human sexuality et cetera, such a reconciliation seems ... unlikely.

Well, good evening, nice to meet you.
And you speak so eloquently.
That's a switch on this forum.
Maybe we need some of that.

Please allow me to introduce myself.
I am Rollo Tamasi, of the L.A. Tamasis.
I am a former Roman Catholic.

I went to a great Greek festival just yesterday at the big Greek Orthodox church near where I am.
Had a great time.
These people know how to have a good time.
They're having a fish fry Friday night.
My wife and I are going.
This might become a habit.

I guess my next step is to attend one of their services.
I wonder if they will let me in?

Anyway, I like your post here and look forward to hear more from you.
Sincerely, Rollo.

 

[ezra]

can,t find out a whole lot about the sda. if carson can be a effective leader so be it. obama claims to be Christian yet he goes against every Christain standard there is. imo the man is lost as goose i do not like his politics i certainly do not care or agree with his so called bible beliefs. john f Kennedy was catholic yet a effective leader . i doubt %90 of our political leaders is as saved as they think they are

 

[Free]

Ben Carson is a Seventh-day Adventist.

Is the SDA, Mormon, and JW churches cults?

Yes, denominational differences matter because each difference divides the Church. Mormons and JWs are not Christian denominations, they are cults.

 

[MrWGW]

Well, good evening, nice to meet you.
And you speak so eloquently.
That's a switch on this forum.
Maybe we need some of that.

Please allow me to introduce myself.
I am Rollo Tamasi, of the L.A. Tamasis.
I am a former Roman Catholic.

I went to a great Greek festival just yesterday at the big Greek Orthodox church near where I am.
Had a great time.
These people know how to have a good time.
They're having a fish fry Friday night.
My wife and I are going.
This might become a habit.

I guess my next step is to attend one of their services.
I wonder if they will let me in?

Anyway, I like your post here and look forward to hear more from you.
Sincerely, Rollo.

They certainly will admit you. The duration of the Divine Liturgy pf St. John Chrysostom is 90 minutes or so unless there is a bishop present in which case it is signifigantly lengthened; the style of the service should be evocative of a Latin mass, if you ever attended one, albeit longer. If you show up for Orthros (Matins), that service will take 45 minutes at a minimum, followed directly by the Eucharistic liturgy. The actual sermon or homily might be five minutes or less in duration. I myself and most converts are attracted by the liturgics, however, it is signifigantly longer and more intense than the Novus Ordo Missae or the servoces at an Episcopalian parish, and depending on the parish, may not be in English (due to the expatriate/ethnic segment; some parishes have two services, and still others switch between languages during the liturgy, whereas some Oriental Orthodox use screens with translations).

As far as the fish fry on Friday is concerned, I am glad it is of quality; I would avoid mentioning that to Russians or many American conwertsy like myself unless you want to hear something along the lines of "Meat on Friday? Is outrage!"

There are two Orthodox communions, the Eastern and Oriental: Eastern Orthodoxy is predominant among the Christians of Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Cyprus and most of the former USSR excepting the largely Lutheran and Catholic Baltic states and Western Ukraine, and Armenia; a minority of Egyptian,Albanian, Czech, Slovak and Polish Christians are EO. Then one has the Oriental Orthodox who are predominant among the Armenians, Ethiopians, Egyptian (Coptic) Christians, and the St. Thomas Christians of India; there are substantial EO and OO churches, the Antiochian and Syriac Orthodox (of which I am a member) respectively, who have a very close relationship, and who can be found in Syria and adjacent countries; there are a large number of Syriacs in Iraq and a residual population in Turkey that survived the genocides of 1915 (which affected Armenians, Syriacs, Assyrians and Pontic Greeks among other Christian groups). In the US the most Americanized group is probably the OCA, but one will find convert heavy parishes in several of the Orthodox churches, so if you have found a Greek parish and you like it, and they like you, that would be a pleasant place to go to church.

 

[MrWGW]

Yes, denominational differences matter because each difference divides the Church. Mormons and JWs are not Christian denominations, they are cults.

On this point I highly agree. The ecumenical movement has at least had success in bringing the mainline Protestant churches closer together, however, demographic shifts are having the disagreeable effect of negating this.

I do believe it is important for denominations to be honest about their faith, however, some of the differences are vexatious or no longer relevant. For example, the distinction between Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy was relevant and important in the fourth and fifth centuries due to the compound problems created by Nestorius on the one hand and Eutyches on the other, but now is obsolete, and given the degree to which for example the Antiochians and Syriacs are suffering what amounts to a genocide, and the Copts and Greek Orthodox of Alexandria keep experiencing religious violence, there is no rationale for that schism to continue.

I myself hope for a state of Eucharistic communion in the next fifty years encompassing the entire spectrum of liturgical churches.

 

[Nick]

Depends. Are we counting mormons and JWs as denominations now?

Re: Baptist, Methodist, Anglican etc, these are generally fairly small differences that I don't think are an issue in the long run.

 

[Corn Pop]

Depends. Are we counting mormons and JWs as denominations now?

Re: Baptist, Methodist, Anglican etc, these are generally fairly small differences that I don't think are an issue in the long run.

You have to include everything that calls itself a church and/or christian. That includes Jw,mormon,scientology, westbro and so on. You cant pick and choose.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Well, people call "no true Scotsman fallacy" when we try to say something or someone isn't truly Christian, but if we're basing this off the actual definition of Christian...anything that doesn't fit that definition is not Christian.
You can't be a Scotsman if you don't have Scottish heritage or were not born in Scotland. The fallacy is saying someone isn't a Scotsman for reasons unrelated to the definition of being a Scotsman. Someone can claim to be a Scotsman and not really be one.

What is the definition of Christian? Christ follower--if a religion isn't based on the teachings and example of Jesus, it is not Christian. (Though, words do change in meaning over time and as different uses become commonplace.)

 

[Corn Pop]

Well, people call "no true Scotsman fallacy" when we try to say something or someone isn't truly Christian, but if we're basing this off the actual definition of Christian...anything that doesn't fit that definition is not Christian.
You can't be a Scotsman if you don't have Scottish heritage or were not born in Scotland. The fallacy is saying someone isn't a Scotsman for reasons unrelated to the definition of being a Scotsman. Someone can claim to be a Scotsman and not really be one.

What is the definition of Christian? Christ follower--if a religion isn't based on the teachings and example of Jesus, it is not Christian. (Though, words do change in meaning over time and as different uses become commonplace.)

Thats why its opened up doors to evil. Anyone can register as a religious church charity organisation.

Not only do cults get in the door, and other religions, many followers of Jesus have abused there power of authority from God. They believe they should be paid a salary to work for God, its such hard work they say.

You know, speaking to 2 people through a microphone is much harder than speaking to 50000 through a microphone so must up the salary.

They have so many people to deal with, they just ignore people with wisdom like Moses, who never robbed God or expected, who when it got to much, finds other voluntars to help, but na, just up the salary. More sheep in the flock for God, bigger salary God owes them. And they think its a blessing but cant see past there blindness.

And what did Peter do. All gave to Peter and Peter gave it all back.

What did Jesus do.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I don't know much about SDA, but I don't think Mormon or JW are cults. I don't agree with them, but I have to hold out hope that God saves us even if we don't understand everything right. That by faith in Jesus, we are given Salvation. Because if that's not true, then there's no hope for any of us. Mormon's have extra books along with the bible. Those books I think are a sham, but I don't think they refuse their faith in Jesus or in God. Jehovah Witnesses studied the bible and developed many other theologies that aren't shared among other Christian groups, but I think their faith and trust in Jesus, and in God is still very real.

 

[Corn Pop]

I don't know much about SDA, but I don't think Mormon or JW are cults. I don't agree with them, but I have to hold out hope that God saves us even if we don't understand everything right. That by faith in Jesus, we are given Salvation. Because if that's not true, then there's no hope for any of us. Mormon's have extra books along with the bible. Those books I think are a sham, but I don't think they refuse their faith in Jesus or in God. Jehovah Witnesses studied the bible and developed many other theologies that aren't shared among other Christian groups, but I think their faith and trust in Jesus, and in God is still very real.

The problem i see is deception. Sure they dont deny Jesus, but they have let man sneak in and have put Jesus second. They wont read and listen to the direct words of Jesus in scripture, at least the few words we do know he spoke, but will believe the founder of there 'denomination' and what they say.
For example only 120000 people are saved?. Where on earth did Jesus say that?. Did someone decide to add to the book of revelation and Jesus?

 

[MrWGW]

Well, people call "no true Scotsman fallacy" when we try to say something or someone isn't truly Christian, but if we're basing this off the actual definition of Christian...anything that doesn't fit that definition is not Christian.
You can't be a Scotsman if you don't have Scottish heritage or were not born in Scotland. The fallacy is saying someone isn't a Scotsman for reasons unrelated to the definition of being a Scotsman. Someone can claim to be a Scotsman and not really be one.

What is the definition of Christian? Christ follower--if a religion isn't based on the teachings and example of Jesus, it is not Christian. (Though, words do change in meaning over time and as different uses become commonplace.)

On this point I generally agree; contemporary terms like "Jesusism," and "Christ Movements" to refer to the various communities in the Early Church really bother me. There is an urgent need for the Christian label to be asserted by all denominations in a coherent way against the looming monsters that are militant secularism, and anti-Christian terrorism.

 

[MrWGW]

The problem i see is deception. Sure they dont deny Jesus, but they have let man sneak in and have put Jesus second. They wont read and listen to the direct words of Jesus in scripture, at least the few words we do know he spoke, but will believe the founder of there 'denomination' and what they say.
For example only 120000 people are saved?. Where on earth did Jesus say that?. Did someone decide to add to the book of revelation and Jesus?

You have a very valid point I think. Now the J/Ws embrace an Arian Christology - Jesus is not God. In their eschatology there will be more saved than the group you mentioned, which if memorynserves numbers 144,000; however, there is some special status conferred on the 144,000; individual members of that group self identify as such. To date I have read there are more than 144,000 such self identifications!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

They certainly will admit you. The duration of the Divine Liturgy pf St. John Chrysostom is 90 minutes or so unless there is a bishop present in which case it is signifigantly lengthened; the style of the service should be evocative of a Latin mass, if you ever attended one, albeit longer. If you show up for Orthros (Matins), that service will take 45 minutes at a minimum, followed directly by the Eucharistic liturgy. The actual sermon or homily might be five minutes or less in duration. I myself and most converts are attracted by the liturgics, however, it is signifigantly longer and more intense than the Novus Ordo Missae or the servoces at an Episcopalian parish, and depending on the parish, may not be in English (due to the expatriate/ethnic segment; some parishes have two services, and still others switch between languages during the liturgy, whereas some Oriental Orthodox use screens with translations).

As far as the fish fry on Friday is concerned, I am glad it is of quality; I would avoid mentioning that to Russians or many American conwertsy like myself unless you want to hear something along the lines of "Meat on Friday? Is outrage!"

There are two Orthodox communions, the Eastern and Oriental: Eastern Orthodoxy is predominant among the Christians of Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Cyprus and most of the former USSR excepting the largely Lutheran and Catholic Baltic states and Western Ukraine, and Armenia; a minority of Egyptian,Albanian, Czech, Slovak and Polish Christians are EO. Then one has the Oriental Orthodox who are predominant among the Armenians, Ethiopians, Egyptian (Coptic) Christians, and the St. Thomas Christians of India; there are substantial EO and OO churches, the Antiochian and Syriac Orthodox (of which I am a member) respectively, who have a very close relationship, and who can be found in Syria and adjacent countries; there are a large number of Syriacs in Iraq and a residual population in Turkey that survived the genocides of 1915 (which affected Armenians, Syriacs, Assyrians and Pontic Greeks among other Christian groups). In the US the most Americanized group is probably the OCA, but one will find convert heavy parishes in several of the Orthodox churches, so if you have found a Greek parish and you like it, and they like you, that would be a pleasant place to go to church.

Thank you for this. It's the best explanation of the Orthodox Christian church I have ever heard.