DO NOT BE SURPRISED (A Word Of Warning For The Time To Come)

[Randy]

Brother I won’t continue to address your opinion any longer.


When your ready to discuss what the scriptures say, let me know.



JLB

I did because you can't accept my answers you feel you in the right.
This answers the question can a born again believer be deceived away from Jesus.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them

 

[JLB]

I did because you can't accept my answers you feel you in the right.
This answers the question can a born again believer be deceived away from Jesus.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Sheep who listen and obey the Voice of the Shepherd are those who follow Him, in which they will receive eternal life.


Sheep who become lost because the don’t continue to hear and obey the Voice of the Shepherd, are sinners in need of repentance.

This is the point that you refuse to address and discuss.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

A brother in Christ who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance or will face eternal death.


This is the same principle that Jesus taught.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

JLB

 

[Randy]

Sheep who listen and obey the Voice of the Shepherd are those who follow Him, in which they will receive eternal life.


Sheep who become lost because the don’t continue to hear and obey the Voice of the Shepherd, are sinners in need of repentance.

This is the point that you refuse to address and discuss.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

A brother in Christ who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance or will face eternal death.


This is the same principle that Jesus taught.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

JLB

Again, "Is a born again believer in a lost state?" A born again believer is one of Jesus's own and know one can snatch them from His hands. If one has the Spirit of Christ in them they are in Christ and One with Christ.

According to John Jesus keeps those who have the Spirit of Christ in them are kept safe from the evil one and they won't continue to sin. If one continues to sin that is a sign they are lost and don't belong to Jesus.

Jesus referred to Zacchaeus as someone who was lost and saved.

 

[JLB]

Is a born again believer in a lost state?"

Yes. A born again Christian can indeed become lost.
Sheep who become lost because the don’t continue to hear and obey the Voice of the Shepherd, are sinners in need of repentance.

This is the point that you refuse to address and discuss.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

A brother in Christ who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance or will face eternal death.


This is the same principle that Jesus taught.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

JLB

 

[Randy]

Yes. A born again Christian can indeed become lost.
Sheep who become lost because the don’t continue to hear and obey the Voice of the Shepherd, are sinners in need of repentance.

This is the point that you refuse to address and discuss.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

A brother in Christ who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance or will face eternal death.


This is the same principle that Jesus taught.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

JLB

A born again believer can be lost? Then they are not born again and are lost forever.
But it doesn't matter as a born again believer is not in a lost condition. They are "one" with Christ Jesus and God can't disown Himself.
No one can snatch a born again believer from Jesus's hand. They can not be deceived away from Jesus. Jesus protects them from the evil one.

Now those who don't have the Spirit of Christ in them don't belong to Jesus.- Lost state
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
They know Jesus's voice and can not be deceived away from Jesus as in the false prophet in Revelation.

 

[JLB]

A born again believer can be lost?

Yes. A brother, one of His sheep can indeed become lost.

For a person to become lost, they first must be found.

Like the examples Jesus so plainly taught us.


Lost sheep first belonged to the shepherd.

Lost coin first belonged to the woman.

Lost son first belonged to the father.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them...


Or what woman, having ten silver [c]coins, if she loses one coin..


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’




JLB

 

[Randy]

Yes. A brother, one of His sheep can indeed become lost.

For a person to become lost, they first must be found.

Like the examples Jesus so plainly taught us.


Lost sheep first belonged to the shepherd.

Lost coin first belonged to the woman.

Lost son first belonged to the father.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them...


Or what woman, having ten silver [c]coins, if she loses one coin..


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’




JLB

But one who has the Spirit of Christ in them is one with Christ and is not in a lost state.

And Jesus came to seek and save the Lost sheep of Israel. So they weren't in Christ then lost.
So there were those called lost who weren't once Christians.

A chief Tax collector a lost sheep who was found
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

[JLB]

But one who has the Spirit of Christ in them is one with Christ and is not in a lost state.

As long as they are with Him and have not wandered away from.

But one who has the Spirit of Christ in them is one with Christ and is not in a lost state.

And Jesus came to seek and save the Lost sheep of Israel. So they weren't in Christ then lost.
So there were those called lost who weren't once Christians.

A chief Tax collector a lost sheep who was found
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Do you understand that the covenant the Lord made with Abraham before He became flesh, has become the “new” (renewed) Covenant that we are grafted into?


Can you show me a scripture that calls those who have never believed as lost.


A person who has become lost by wandering from the the Lord, was first reconciled to Him.


Like the examples Jesus so plainly taught us.


Lost sheep first belonged to the shepherd.

Lost coin first belonged to the woman.

Lost son first belonged to the father.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them...


Or what woman, having ten silver [c]coins, if she loses one coin..


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’


JLB

 

[Randy]

As long as they are with Him and have not wandered away from.




Do you understand that the covenant the Lord made with Abraham before He became flesh, has become the “new” (renewed) Covenant that we are grafted into?


Can you show me a scripture that calls those who have never believed as lost.


A person who has become lost by wandering from the the Lord, was first reconciled to Him.


Like the examples Jesus so plainly taught us.


Lost sheep first belonged to the shepherd.

Lost coin first belonged to the woman.

Lost son first belonged to the father.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them...


Or what woman, having ten silver [c]coins, if she loses one coin..


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’


JLB

A born again believer can not be deceived away from Jesus. Its not possible. Jesus protects them from the evil one.
If you have the Spirit of Christ in you then you are in Christ and one with Christ. Why do you think its written if one becomes faithless Jesus will remain faithful for God can not disown Himself.
The gospel starts with the lost being found or rescued by Jesus. That's who He was preaching to. So why are using His examples to apply to those that were His once and were again Lost? The Spirit wasn't given until after Jesus sent it to us from above.
Can you show a scripture of one who has the Spirit of Christ in them is called lost or even continues to sin? Those that continue to sin and call Jesus Lord Lord have not known Him.
I have shown scripture where Jesus stated no one can snatch us away from His hand? As in deceived away from Him by a any false prophet. As His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him.

 

[JLB]

A born again believer can not be deceived away from Jesus. Its not possible.

Is one of His sheep who becomes lost:

Saved or unsaved?
Reconciled or unreconciled?
Just or unjust?

Maybe you would like to describe for us what it means to be lost?

Don’t we preach the Gospel with the lost so that the will no longer be lost, but reconciled to God?



A person who has become lost by wandering from the the Lord, was first reconciled to Him.


Like the examples Jesus so plainly taught us.


Lost sheep first belonged to the shepherd.

Lost coin first belonged to the woman.

Lost son first belonged to the father.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them...


Or what woman, having ten silver [c]coins, if she loses one coin..


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’


JLB

 

[Randy]

Is one of His sheep who becomes lost:

Saved or unsaved?
Reconciled or unreconciled?
Just or unjust?

Maybe you would like to describe for us what it means to be lost?

Don’t we preach the Gospel with the lost so that the will no longer be lost, but reconciled to God?



A person who has become lost by wandering from the the Lord, was first reconciled to Him.


Like the examples Jesus so plainly taught us.


Lost sheep first belonged to the shepherd.

Lost coin first belonged to the woman.

Lost son first belonged to the father.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them...


Or what woman, having ten silver [c]coins, if she loses one coin..


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’


JLB

OSAS is a different subject then intended.
I think if someone who Has the Spirit of Christ in them grieves God in some way that God leaves them its all she wrote as they can't be reborn a 2nd time. They would be crucifying the Lord all over again.

The one who has the Spirit of Christ in them can't be snatched away from Jesus hand as in leaving the Faith to follow another.
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. How can one unknown? Especially since the great deception of the false prophet was foretold by God. It shouldn't be a surprise to the saints. Only the unbelievers.

 

[Razeontherock]

I am very very close to that but defiantly state can't be deceived. We know upfront about the beast and deception also having the witness of the Spirit. Do you think you could ever deny Jesus without it being a lie?
It would be insanity to come and know the lord and then deny Him as false knowing the outcome.
I believe those who once claimed being a Christian only to walk away never knew Him.

Peter gives you lots of trouble then.

Peter was a troublesome bloke, but correct theology accounts for such difficulties.

 

[Razeontherock]

OSAS is a different subject then intended.
I think if someone who Has the Spirit of Christ in them grieves God in some way that God leaves them its all she wrote as they can't be reborn a 2nd time. They would be crucifying the Lord all over again.

The one who has the Spirit of Christ in them can't be snatched away from Jesus hand as in leaving the Faith to follow another.
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. How can one unknown? Especially since the great deception of the false prophet was foretold by God. It shouldn't be a surprise to the saints. Only the unbelievers.

Drive 56 in a 55, the Holy Spirit gets out of the car, sends you to hell, and probably pushes you into the concrete divider just on GP's?

1 sin after being Baptized and you're lost forever? Apparently Constantine thought so, which is why he waited til he was on his deathbed to get Baptized.

Your statement here is every bit as problematic.

What happened to GRACE?

 

[Randy]

Drive 56 in a 55, the Holy Spirit gets out of the car, sends you to hell, and probably pushes you into the concrete divider just on GP's?

1 sin after being Baptized and you're lost forever? Apparently Constantine thought so, which is why he waited til he was on his deathbed to get Baptized.

Your statement here is every bit as problematic.

What happened to GRACE?

Plenty of grace -
For those born again are One with Jesus.
If we are faithless He will remain faithful because God can not disown Himself
He will protect us from the evil One

Yet the warning
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. 5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing.

I am not fully convinced that out all those born of God from the beginning to this day that not one has ever willfully chosen to walk away or turn back to sin. I think highly unlikely is as close as I come. I am fully convinced that no power or authority visible or invisible can deceive one born of God away from Jesus.

 

[Razeontherock]

I am not fully convinced that out all those born of God from the beginning to this day that not one has ever willfully chosen to walk away or turn back to sin.

Well that's good, because that would be an unrealistic expectation.

I am fully convinced that no power or authority visible or invisible can deceive one born of God away from Jesus.

I think nuance is needed. If we're "close enough," Psalm 91 style, I think it's pretty unlikely to be deceived by the deceiver. There's a looong way between that condition and backslidden, it's not an on-off condition. So space should be made for the sincere believer that can be deceived by the deceiver, tempted by the tempter, and etc. There is Scripture for this, with ancient theology about it recorded in hymns, writings of all types, sermons, and pretty much anything else you can think of; not without good reason.
It is Christ's humility by which He conquered. It is by sharing in His humility that we draw close to Him, and get promoted in due time (such as faithfully enduring the great tribulation, which is one test I hope I'm not called to pass)

Abiding in Him faithfully, fellowshipping with the Light continually, is of course what we are to pursue. The closer we come to that perfection, there are all sorts of rewards. Not being taken in by charlatans, or beasts, or the mark thereof would be pretty high on the list of benefits He loads us with daily, I should think :wink