DO NOT BE SURPRISED (A Word Of Warning For The Time To Come)

[JLB]

How can a false teacher deceive one away from Jesus when He expressly stated no one could?

Please post the scripture where Jesus expressly said no one me could be deceived away from Him.


He warned His Apostles over and over to not be deceived.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
Matthew 24:3-4



He explicitly warned them in the Old Testament of this very thing.


If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 13:1-3

• for the Lord your God is testing you

It is this principle that Paul is referring to in
2 Thessalonians 2 -

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

Their will be signs and wonders to deceive people into thinking this false messiah is the
Messiah.


For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. Matthew 24:24-25


This is a warning to keep ourselves in the love of God, to abide in His word, to build ourselves up on our most holy faith and stay near the Great Shepherd to hear His voice and follow Him.


Peter says it this way -


5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 2 Peter 1:5-10

• for if you do these things you will never stumble;

JLB

 

[JLB]

You have done no such thing.
How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and be in a "lost" state? Are they not one with Jesus?
How can a false teacher deceive one away from Jesus when He expressly stated no one could? His sheep hear His voice.
And my confidence is not assumption but faith in my Lord not me.'

I’m referring to Luke 15:4-7 where Jesus taught us about His sheep who wander from Him and become lost.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


These are His sheep are are said to be “just” when they are with Him. Reconciled or found is the condition of the sheep when they are with Him.

If His sheep wander away then they become lost.

Lost means they were “just”, “found”, reconciled to Him then wandered away and were lost.

Lost means the returned to being a sinner in need of repentance.


James plainly teaches this principle -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


JLB

 

[Randy]

I’m referring to Luke 15:4-7 where Jesus taught us about His sheep who wander from Him and become lost.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


These are His sheep are are said to be “just” when they are with Him. Reconciled or found is the condition of the sheep when they are with Him.

If His sheep wander away then they become lost.

Lost means they were “just”, “found”, reconciled to Him then wandered away and were lost.

Lost means the returned to being a sinner in need of repentance.


James plainly teaches this principle -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


JLB

And I stated someone in Christ as having the Spirit of Christ in them is NOT LOST. As in NOT IN A LOST STATE. If the Spirit of Christ is removed from a believer then I think it would be impossible for them to repent for the are crucifying Jesus all over again. So someone wondering from the truth isn't a born again believer.

Jesus was first sent to the lost sheep of israel and the Spirit was sent by a risen Jesus.

 

[Randy]

Please post the scripture where Jesus expressly said no one me could be deceived away from Him.


He warned His Apostles over and over to not be deceived.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
Matthew 24:3-4



He explicitly warned them in the Old Testament of this very thing.


If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 13:1-3

• for the Lord your God is testing you

It is this principle that Paul is referring to in
2 Thessalonians 2 -

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

Their will be signs and wonders to deceive people into thinking this false messiah is the
Messiah.


For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. Matthew 24:24-25


This is a warning to keep ourselves in the love of God, to abide in His word, to build ourselves up on our most holy faith and stay near the Great Shepherd to hear His voice and follow Him.


Peter says it this way -


5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 2 Peter 1:5-10

• for if you do these things you will never stumble;

JLB

No one can snatch the sheep from Jesus's hand.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[Randy]

Again I ask you If a person has a Spirit of Christ in them and is one with Christ how then are they "Lost"?

God can't disown Himself.

 

[Randy]

The context of Jude 24:

• you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

• keep yourselves in the love of God,

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And on some have compassion, [j]making a distinction; 23 but others save [k]with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, Jude 20-24


The key to being kept from stumbling is keeping yourselves in the love of God.

Building yourself up on your most holy faith by praying in the Holy Spirit.


JLB

Those are true words as well as to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling.

As I stated I believe Jesus will give grace to those who face the beast so they won't be overcome with fear to disown Him. They would be strengthened inter inner being. Paul sang Hymns while locked up in chains.
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

 

[Randy]

Lets take a look at this Scripture . Below is stating someone other than yourself by any means can NOT snatch or pluck you out of Jesus hands. That covers by force or deception or any means used against you to make try to get you to walk away from Jesus.
Won't happen for the one in us is greater than the on in this world and Jesus is faithful. Those who belong to Him hear His voice.

I qualify this as one who has the Spirit of Christ in them and is one with Christ Jesus and belongs to Jesus. And of course no one enters into that state or kingdom of God except by Jesus. He is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

No one can snatch the sheep from Jesus's hand.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[JLB]

So someone wondering from the truth isn't a born again believer.

How can a person who lose something that never belonged to them?



JLB

 

[JLB]

No one can snatch the sheep from Jesus's hand.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Sheep that hear (listen with the intent of doing what is heard) His Voice and follow Him, are promised the security of not being snatched from His hand.


Those sheep who wander from Him and become lost, do not have this same promise as those who stay with Him and follow Him.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Those are true words as well as to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling.

He keeps us from stumbling through our continued obedience.

• Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control [d]perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither [e]barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
2 Peter 1:5-10


Do you know what “stumble” means?



JLB

 

[Randy]

He keeps us from stumbling through our continued obedience.

• Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control [d]perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither [e]barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
2 Peter 1:5-10


Do you know what “stumble” means?



JLB

Again how can those who have the Spirit of Christ in them and be one with Christ be lost or in a lost state?
I have showed that Jesus stated no one, (as in another) can snatch His own from Him. So how then can they be deceived away, (from another), as we were speaking about the original post that millions of christians will receive the mark of the beast which I state is in error. That is they can't be deceived away from Jesus.

There may be many who proclaim to be Christians but do not have the Spirit that can be snatched away as the never belonged to Jesus for various seasons only the Lord knows as nothing is hidden from Him and He is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

I have defined Christian as one who has the Spirit of Christ in them. They wouldn't have received that Spirit if they were disobedient to Jesus. As is written, "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
AS Jesus stated,“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth."

Those who belong to Jesus hear His voice and follow Him.

Jesus did state there will be those who call Him Lord but He never knew them because they continued to do evil
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

About those born of God
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

What is the meaning of "keeps them safe"

So a good true tree doesn't bare bad fruit. And by their fruit we recognize sincerity of faith. As Jesus stated about those who call Him lord lord He never knew them calling them evil doers. I think history would show when church and state are fused in any religion hypocrisy reigns.

 

[JLB]

Again how can those who have the Spirit of Christ in them and be one with Christ be lost or in a lost state?
I have showed that Jesus stated no one, (as in another) can snatch His own from Him. So how then can they be deceived away, (from another), as we were speaking about the original post that millions of christians will receive the mark of the beast which I state is in error. That is they can't be deceived away from Jesus.

There may be many who proclaim to be Christians but do not have the Spirit that can be snatched away as the never belonged to Jesus for various seasons only the Lord knows as nothing is hidden from Him and He is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

I have defined Christian as one who has the Spirit of Christ in them. They wouldn't have received that Spirit if they were disobedient to Jesus. As is written, "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
AS Jesus stated,“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth."

Those who belong to Jesus hear His voice and follow Him.

Jesus did state there will be those who call Him Lord but He never knew them because they continued to do evil
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

About those born of God
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

What is the meaning of "keeps them safe"

So a good true tree doesn't bare bad fruit. And by their fruit we recognize sincerity of faith. As Jesus stated about those who call Him lord lord He never knew them calling them evil doers. I think history would show when church and state are fused in any religion hypocrisy reigns.

Again how can those who have the Spirit of Christ in them and be one with Christ be lost or in a lost state?
I have showed that Jesus stated no one, (as in another) can snatch His own from Him. So how then can they be deceived away, (from another), as we were speaking about the original post that millions of christians will receive the mark of the beast which I state is in error. That is they can't be deceived away from Jesus.

There may be many who proclaim to be Christians but do not have the Spirit that can be snatched away as the never belonged to Jesus for various seasons only the Lord knows as nothing is hidden from Him and He is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

I have defined Christian as one who has the Spirit of Christ in them. They wouldn't have received that Spirit if they were disobedient to Jesus. As is written, "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
AS Jesus stated,“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth."

Those who belong to Jesus hear His voice and follow Him.

Jesus did state there will be those who call Him Lord but He never knew them because they continued to do evil
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

About those born of God
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

What is the meaning of "keeps them safe"

So a good true tree doesn't bare bad fruit. And by their fruit we recognize sincerity of faith. As Jesus stated about those who call Him lord lord He never knew them calling them evil doers. I think history would show when church and state are fused in any religion hypocrisy reigns.

Ok Randy.


When you are ready to discuss what the scripture actually says about His sheep who wander from Him and become lost, then let me know.


It’s seems you would rather discuss what you believe rather than what the scriptures teach.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

A person who wanders away from the Lord and becomes lost, is as a sinner in need of repentance.


This is what Jesus teaches.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust.


Likewise diring the tribulation we must paitiently endure to the end to be saved.



JLB

 

[Randy]

Ok Randy.


When you are ready to discuss what the scripture actually says about His sheep who wander from Him and become lost, then let me know.


It’s seems you would rather discuss what you believe rather than what the scriptures teach.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

A person who wanders away from the Lord and becomes lost, is as a sinner in need of repentance.


This is what Jesus teaches.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust.


Likewise diring the tribulation we must paitiently endure to the end to be saved.



JLB

Did God have any sheep before Jesus came? Did some wander off the path?
Those who are born of God can not be deceived away from Jesus. Those who have the Spirit of Christ in them are One with Jesus and He keeps them safe and the evil one cant harm them.

Someone who does not have the Spirit of Christ in them has not yet entered into the Kingdom of God.
And for those who continue to sin will not enter into the kingdom of God.

Those that repent and pledge a good conscience towards God will find favor with Jesus.
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
We know the truth
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
We hear His voice and no other can snatch us from His hands as in false teachers and liars like the false prophet in Rev

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

The elect will not nd can not be deceived by false Christs.

 

[JLB]

Did God have any sheep before Jesus came? Did some wander off the path?
Those who are born of God can not be deceived away from Jesus. Those who have the Spirit of Christ in them are One with Jesus and He keeps them safe and the evil one cant harm them.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

A brother in Christ who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance or will face eternal death.



JLB

 

[Randy]

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

A brother in Christ who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance or will face eternal death.



JLB

Jesus turned many sinners to God. He came to save the lost sheep of Isreal.
The one born of God won't continue to sin. Those who continue to sin have not known Him. This is how we know who belongs to Jesus. By their fruit you shall recognize them.

No one born of the Spirit can be plucked from Jesus's hand He stated so.
Jesus keeps them safe from harm by the evil one. And His sheep hear His voice. Jesus and John stated so.
So those born of God will remain in Him.

 

[Christ_empowered]

i kinda lean towards TULIP and such, too. I think its worth noting that Calvinism -was- the dominant form of Christianity in America until sometime during or after the 2nd Great Awakening. That's when evangelism techninques were developed and fine tuned and people were encouraged to "make a decision for Christ," etc.

During the 1st Great Awakening, ministers analyzed people for signs of The Holy Ghost's regenerative work in their lives. Similar to the Puritans, with their "Spiritual Autobiographies," converts kept tabs on their own inner worlds, too.

Basically...I sometimes wonder if the shift from Calvinism to a more free will Arminianism, one that actually sometimes seems to have excluded even foreknowledge (somehow...) has more to do with trying to democratize Jesus and salvation, and less to do with Scripture and saving souls. I could be wrong, of course, but...the 2nd Great Awakening was when the emphasis on people "knowing their place in society," etc., was relaxed in favor of upward mobility and greater equality (to a point...). Its also when some of the early major corporations started up, so I guess industrialization and urbanization contributed, too.

 

[Randy]

i kinda lean towards TULIP and such, too. I think its worth noting that Calvinism -was- the dominant form of Christianity in America until sometime during or after the 2nd Great Awakening. That's when evangelism techninques were developed and fine tuned and people were encouraged to "make a decision for Christ," etc.

During the 1st Great Awakening, ministers analyzed people for signs of The Holy Ghost's regenerative work in their lives. Similar to the Puritans, with their "Spiritual Autobiographies," converts kept tabs on their own inner worlds, too.

Basically...I sometimes wonder if the shift from Calvinism to a more free will Arminianism, one that actually sometimes seems to have excluded even foreknowledge (somehow...) has more to do with trying to democratize Jesus and salvation, and less to do with Scripture and saving souls. I could be wrong, of course, but...the 2nd Great Awakening was when the emphasis on people "knowing their place in society," etc., was relaxed in favor of upward mobility and greater equality (to a point...). Its also when some of the early major corporations started up, so I guess industrialization and urbanization contributed, too.

I have known and loved Jesus as far back as my memory goes. I have a christian mother. There are people who belong to other faiths and their leaders "sow doubt" about the NT. I am freewill.
Jesus sows the good seed. Satan sows the weeds.

Foreknowledge in that we would be conformed into the likeness if Christ.
I am not arrogant enough to state I was prechosen to be a christian. Nor hateful enough to state those not prechosen have no hope.
I see videos of muslims who knew they and us both couldn't be right. Someone was wrong. So they read the NT and debated. They prayed and prayed and sought the truth of the matter with fear. They found Jesus. They sought truth with God through prayer and read the witness of the Nt and found it. Those who seek find.

I note the word "seeks"
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Many dont believe because of the "doubt" sown by others. Its like a murder trial where the defense lawyer sows doubt about the testimony.

Many just like to do evil. If you had a prison ministry and saw how long one keeps behind bars would you not first ask them if they wanted help as in "do you want to do evil?" If yes walk away. If no you have a beginning.

Many are just busy with other things. The love of making money is a big roadblock.

 

[Christ_empowered]

i dunno. I kinda lean towards predestination, but...following old school Calvinism, God decides, without any basis of merit or character or...anything other than His will and good pleasure. So, evangelism is important because it could, potentially, be -anyone-, anywhere, at any time that God has already pre-selected. I had a counselor once, he went to Africa in his capacity as a minister...

he saw rejects from that society accept The Lord and find healing. I don't think its snobby to say "I am a Christian and I lean towards predestination," because...to me...it just makes sense. I was hopelessly lost when I "got saved..." I'd even had waaaay too much electroshock, so there's obviously the very real question of what I could comprehend and then the other question...why is God going above and beyond for an electroshocked weakling? To me, the logical answer to that--based both on Scripture and what I've seen in the world around me--would be that I was one of the lost sheep, one of the called, etc., one upon whom He has seen fit to show mercy and compassion...

and there ya go. But I could be wrong, of course. I'm not God. I pray to Him daily, but I don't pretend to know the mind of Christ. Its just where I'm leaning, right now.

 

[Randy]

i dunno. I kinda lean towards predestination, but...following old school Calvinism, God decides, without any basis of merit or character or...anything other than His will and good pleasure. So, evangelism is important because it could, potentially, be -anyone-, anywhere, at any time that God has already pre-selected. I had a counselor once, he went to Africa in his capacity as a minister...

he saw rejects from that society accept The Lord and find healing. I don't think its snobby to say "I am a Christian and I lean towards predestination," because...to me...it just makes sense. I was hopelessly lost when I "got saved..." I'd even had waaaay too much electroshock, so there's obviously the very real question of what I could comprehend and then the other question...why is God going above and beyond for an electroshocked weakling? To me, the logical answer to that--based both on Scripture and what I've seen in the world around me--would be that I was one of the lost sheep, one of the called, etc., one upon whom He has seen fit to show mercy and compassion...

and there ya go. But I could be wrong, of course. I'm not God. I pray to Him daily, but I don't pretend to know the mind of Christ. Its just where I'm leaning, right now.

Well its clear that even if one is predestined we don't know who they are and no one comes to Jesus unless the Father enables them. Those that listen and learn from the Father go to the Son.

Jesus's will vs mans freewill
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

 

[JLB]

Jesus turned many sinners to God. He came to save the lost sheep of Isreal.
The one born of God won't continue to sin. Those who continue to sin have not known Him. This is how we know who belongs to Jesus. By their fruit you shall recognize them.

No one born of the Spirit can be plucked from Jesus's hand He stated so.
Jesus keeps them safe from harm by the evil one. And His sheep hear His voice. Jesus and John stated so.
So those born of God will remain in Him.

Brother I won’t continue to address your opinion any longer.


When your ready to discuss what the scriptures say, let me know.



JLB