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Do our Servicemen DISHONOR God?

westtexas

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Shad, I hope you have joined us in this thread. You stated in the JW's thread that you think that we DISHONOR God by supporting our military or by joining the military. I'd like to see your scripture references again please sir.

I feel, and will try to show you scripturally, that while we should always pray for, and strive for peace that our Christian servicemen and women ABSOLUTELY honor God just as much as you do in whatever job it is that you do.
Westtexas


P.S. Once again- to all our service men and women- THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND OUR PRAYERS GO OUT BEFORE YOU
your brother in Christ, Westtexas
 
westtexas said:
Shad, I hope you have joined us in this thread. You stated in the JW's thread that you think that we DISHONOR God by supporting our military or by joining the military. I'd like to see your scripture references again please sir.

Here is what Jesus says:

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
 
Jesus Words are not the Law of Moses.

First of all let me say I am a retired US Army, Active Duty Senior NCO and I am also a Police Officer who carries a gun every day of my work life. My job as a Police Officer and a soldier is and was to protect people who have the freedom and liberty to live in a country where they have a right to believe act out the words above. (I am also a Children’s Illustrator which is my real passion).

Sorry about bringing up personal issues but my God is a personal God doing a deep work in us daily.

I had a situation with my sister’s family member a few weeks ago, which I will not get into details, but if I was on duty, this family member would have been arrested. But I handled it in another way.

Point being the anger in this Christian home was so out of control it has become illegal and these family members needed to be separated. So I took my forty year old former drug addicted niece to my home and she is doing awesome.

Later I told my sister and her whole family to include my niece, who goes to church every Sunday, prays at meals in public (which I do not agree with) “is a hypocriteâ€Â. They can act religious and holy all day long; but when it really matters she refused to turn the other cheek.

This is where the power of God really works in our lives; you want to see God’s power turn the other cheek when Satan has assumes to have control; then you will truly learn the real power and glory is in the lamb of God.

I remember looking at an illustration in my sister’s kitchen after all this had occurred of a lamb and a lion laying down together; I felt the Lord speak to me. So I told her Jesus truly becomes king when the lion and the lamb will lay down together; in other words when our flesh and our spirit become one.

Another Example:

Five years back I had a son with this type of anger where he physically attacked me and I turned the other cheek, as he continue to attack me physically; I refused to fight him and let his anger erupt; I would stand up over and over again as he continually struck me. By the way my son and I have had an awesome relationship ever sense; God destroyed the anger in my son’s life when it come to his dad.

So please let us look at God's Word when it comes to the log in our own eye and let God take care of the World. I choose to serve my country, and I praise God for my job as a Police Officer now; but if I had my way I would be an illustrator (but it is just a hobby) Most here live in a pretty good country and do not experence the evils in this world; and like my sister most people have never really turned the other cheek when Satan power seems so powerful.
 
Benoni, like you I'm a senior NCO with the military, but with the guard and close to retirement.

I will share what i've seen in combat that are examples of christ like attributes, some i've seen and or heard about,

enemy pow's that have been shot and captured and need blood soldiers lined up to donate is a common occurance

I worked with the local nationals, i was in charge of a few that worked for me in the fob in country, all muslim most had family and woor poor. I gave one money because he didn't get paid yet and needed it to feed family, boy was he mad when i did but he took it, and wanted to pay it back, and i refused telling him that money was needed for me to live off of but to have some spending money. when i left country i see a few tears in his eyes. i aslo helped get his son a job.

i never fire a shot with my weapon, as all attack were indirect

one worker fought with another and i punished the instegator of the fight with a week off and the local begged me not to fire him and i told them i didn't only i had to teach him that behavior wouldn't be tolerated. He came back and i never had a problem with him again. I believe that the locals seen that an american could be merciful.

I have more stories if need be but i'll end with other types

Church in theatre is real because many want to be there, sure some will have the jailhouse type conversion but if you let go and let god he show's up. The normal distractions of life aren't there and you can focus on god, and death is always reality which btw makes worship more sincere.

In any situation you find yourself in you can look for opurtunites to give God glory,pray that we do so.

good testimony there Benoni

jason
 
When some soldiers asked John what they should do to be saved John said:

Luk 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

He didn't tell them to quit being soldiers. When he said "do violence to no man" he meant do not harm innocent people. King David did violence. Jesus did violence in the temple. Their actions were righteous.

Anyone who says violence never solved anything should talk to the concentration camp survivors.
 
shad.
Do you think it is 'merciful' to sit and watch a man rape a child ?
Assume you have a gun in hand...is it 'merciful' to allow this to happen to this child in playing on some deranged sense of morality ?
Do you use the gun to protect the innocent child ?....or do you sit smugly still and pretend youre doing God a service in your inaction ?

Some run to scriptures to keep from doing what they OUGHT to do....defending the innocent.
There is no wrong in protecting a child, a woman or any innocent, from the deranged and homicidal.

shad said:
westtexas said:
Shad, I hope you have joined us in this thread. You stated in the JW's thread that you think that we DISHONOR God by supporting our military or by joining the military. I'd like to see your scripture references again please sir.

Here is what Jesus says:

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
 
follower of Christ said:
shad.
Do you think it is 'merciful' to sit and watch a man rape a child ?
Assume you have a gun in hand...is it 'merciful' to allow this to happen to this child in playing on some deranged sense of morality ?
Do you use the gun to protect the innocent child ?....or do you sit smugly still and pretend youre doing God a service in your inaction ?

Some run to scriptures to keep from doing what they OUGHT to do....defending the innocent.
There is no wrong in protecting a child, a woman or any innocent, from the deranged and homicidal.

shad said:
westtexas said:
Shad, I hope you have joined us in this thread. You stated in the JW's thread that you think that we DISHONOR God by supporting our military or by joining the military. I'd like to see your scripture references again please sir.

Here is what Jesus says:

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

From personal experience I can tell you that we do not need guns, even in a serious situation. I was a very young Christian and I was on my way home late one night. Suddenly on the other side of the street, two men started beating up another man. They had him to the ground, and they were kicking him. He was lying in a fetal position covering his head. The Holy Spirit said: "Go and stop them". I went " I am sorry Lord, that cannot be You speaking to me"

The Lord would not let me walk on . I am not a big man, nor am I a fighter. So me walking into that situation,alone at night, with nobody else on the street, was against everything "logical". But I went and as I reached them, they both had their backs to me, still kicking the man. I placed a hand on each of their shoulders and said: "What is God thinking about what you are doing? " Both men fell to the ground and one said: "Help me, I am lost"

I am telling you the truth. The police arrived and God made them give the two men to me ! They did not take them, they allowed me to take them. (Only God can do this) I landed up with those two men in my house telling them about the Lord. God turned them into lambs. They walked with me to my house and never even once thought that they might both run and I would not be able to do a thing.

God does not need our guns to protect a baby from a rapist. He only needs us to be close to Him, so He can take charge.
 
Amen Great point

walter said:
When some soldiers asked John what they should do to be saved John said:

Luk 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

He didn't tell them to quit being soldiers. When he said "do violence to no man" he meant do not harm innocent people. King David did violence. Jesus did violence in the temple. Their actions were righteous.

Anyone who says violence never solved anything should talk to the concentration camp survivors.
 
Cornelius said:
God does not need our guns to protect a baby from a rapist. He only needs us to be close to Him, so He can take charge.

Brother, that is wonderful! I too believe if we have faith we can all do these things.
 
Benoni said:
Jesus Words are not the Law of Moses.

What do you mean by this, Jesus simply commands us not to kill our enemies except love them. The military kills their enemies.
 
I am not under the law of Moses.

Wherefore the law was our school-master to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:21-24).

A schoolmaster, (the Greek text gives, a child conductor), was one who held the child in restraint as they conducted the child from home to the school, making sure that there was no mischief along the way, and that the child arrived at the school. Then the child was given over to the care of the teacher, and the duty of the child conductor was ended. The child conductor did not stand in the back of the class room and continue to exercise control and authority over the child, for now the Teacher was in control, and there was to be no outside interference. So also, once we have been brought to Christ, and His anointing abides within us, we are to be led by the Spirit.

shad said:
Benoni said:
Jesus Words are not the Law of Moses.

What do you mean by this, Jesus simply commands us not to kill our enemies except love them. The military kills their enemies.
 
Whatever law you want to call it; I am under grace; the blood of Jesus covers all my sin be it now or in the future. So what is your point?
shad said:
Benoni said:
I am not under the law of Moses.

This thread is not about the law of Moses. It is about Jesus' commandment.
 
Benoni said:
Whatever law you want to call it; I am under grace; the blood of Jesus covers all my sin be it now or in the future. So what is your point?
shad said:
Benoni said:
I am not under the law of Moses.

This thread is not about the law of Moses. It is about Jesus' commandment.

My point is that Christians who approve and join the military is sinning aginst Jesus' command of "love your enemy".

Do you know Jesus says "if you love Me keep may commandment? Do you love Jesus?
 
shad said:
My point is that Christians who approve and join the military is sinning aginst Jesus' command of "love your enemy".

Do you know Jesus says "if you love Me keep may commandment? Do you love Jesus?


I can see your point and I respect it. Perhaps a christian shouldn't join the military but what about the man or woman who becomes a christian while they are in the military? Should they desert?

Would you say King David was sinning for killing Goliath and later leading Israel's army?
 
walter said:
[


I can see your point and I respect it. Perhaps a christian shouldn't join the military but what about the man or woman who becomes a christian while they are in the military? Should they desert?

Good question, they cannot desert, they have to finish their term. They can try changing to be a conscientious objector.

Would you say King David was sinning for killing Goliath and later leading Israel's army?

That is a good question about David and Goliath account, but I know God ordered David to destroy their enemy. You have to know that in OT times, God was directly involved with His people and ordered to destroy evil nations. God or Jesus is not directly involved in this world's affairs anymore.
 
This is a old question on this board, tired of talking about it, so I will copy and paste something for now.


Previous Questions and Answers

"Should a Christian join the military?"

q.gif (1639 bytes) Does Jesus or the New Testament condemn or embrace a man joining the army?



a.gif (1659 bytes) Abraham had his servants trained to fight in battle if the need arose, and the need did. Genesis 14:14-16 says, “And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan. And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus. And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.â€Â

At times, God told His people to fight against other peoples and nations. 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.â€Â

Romans 5:6-8 refers to the nobleness of a person being willing to die for others. “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.†So it is noble when a person is willing to risk his life for others.

There is a caution for the Christian, when considering today’s military service as a career, and not just as a service when the need arises for war. The caution deals with the ungodly atmosphere in today’s military. Proverbs 13:20 says, “He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.†1 Corinthians 15:33 says, “Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.†There is the cursing, the immorality, the sleeping together of males and females in the same tents or quarters on the battlefield today, etc. You have to face many of the same things in many other occupations, but at least you can go home to your own place and have a godly atmosphere there. Many soldiers have fallen to immorality with the present practice of males and females living, working, and sleeping in the same quarters.

There is also another factor to consider. When you sign up for the military, you are placing your life in the hands of others. You will go where they say. You will do what they say. You will live where they say. You will fight whom they say. You will take orders from whom they say (even if it is a United Nations mission and you are under the authority of a foreign officer?). 1 Corinthians 7:20-23 says, “Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.â€Â

Many Christian men have joined the military forces and have served with great distinction and spiritual maturity. They have been great influences upon those that they have worked with or commanded. But there have also been many young men from Christian families who joined the military, and have been made spiritual shipwrecks: their lives scarred by alcohol and immoral living.

Each young man should carefully and prayerfully discern God’s perfect will for his life, before signing on to military service. He should make sure that he has specific Scripture leading him  not just his feelings.
http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/question/prequest/miltserv.htm
 
shad said:
God or Jesus is not directly involved in this world's affairs anymore.

Of course he is :o

I know Christians who are serving in the military, and they are a light to those in darkness around them. Why should Christians not be part of the military? Should we totally abandon this world and let the enemy take over?
 
one cant all of a sudden be in the military and then become a conscientous objector. Only two faiths fall into that category the quakers and the mennonites, unless you are one of them you will still serve until the enlist term is up, i agree with Lewis W on that pray and seek before you serve as not all are called into that type of life, cops kill too, the suspect is quite the enemy of the public when he/she is threating public safety with a gun or drunk driving, kidnapping and or any violent crime

jason
 
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