Bible Study Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for today

[mutzrein]

To me it is dangerous ground to take the record of an event and then try to inflict it as law or doctrine.

I am not necessarily saying that it should be "law", but shouldn't the acts in Acts be an example of how we ought to live our lives as Christians, as followers of Christ? I sure can see from a "Western," materialistic mindset how we would not want to sell things we have and give the money to those in need. We think a few bucks here and there will help the poor, which it does to an extent, but how many of us really sacrifice? I really wonder if the West understands what Christianity is really about.

Although I won't say without thoroughly studying or putting more thought into it than I have that we should follow all that Acts says doctrinally, the problem is that with your view Acts becomes "Evangelicalized," that is, it becomes a book from which one can pick and choose on a whim what is doctrine or what is not. As I stated earlier, to relegate Acts to merely a "transitional book" is to be able to do away with doctrine that one does not, for whatever reason, agree with.

There is doctrine in Acts which is reflected in the acts of the earliest followers of Christ.

Well I see the books of Acts as a testament or record of what happened to the Apostles and the early church. Let's not forget that the events as such were so unique, they were in part a fulfilment of Jesus words. And while the book itself describes remarkable events, the fact that an event is recorded as having happened at that time, does not automatically give it the status of doctrine.

And after all, isn't this another example of what Paul was speaking to the Galatians about. After starting with the Spirit, are you now trying to achieve your goal by human effort. In other words, after starting with a manifestation of the Spirit you have now turned it into something which 'has' to happen because you have adopted it as doctrine rather than walk in the Spirit and allow God to move as He wills.

Could it be that this is the reason for the state of the present day 'church'?

 

[John the Baptist]

Re: Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for tod

Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for the church today? And I mean every verse in Acts - is it doctrinally for you today?

*****
Well in Acts 12:1-5 (note verse 4 in the K.J.) we see the celebration of Easter's Feast day. It seems that todays professed Christian's follow the exact opposite of the Acts real Christians, huh? Plus much 7th Day Required Sabbath Keeping! :fadein:
---John

PS: Is that what you were asking? :wink:

 

[protos]

Re: Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for tod

OK Heidi

Are there people in need where you are? Do you own any land - any real estate? Do you have brothers or sisters in Christ who do . . . and who believe as you?

Put your money where your mouth is. Sell the land and go and lay ALL of the proceeds at the feet of the man you deem to be your apostle.

BTW I think there is a post or two somewhere else I'm waiting for responses to. No rush of course but I wouldn't want them forgotten.

Actually, that's what I'm planning to do at age 25, so I can go to either North Africa or India. That's the only reason I'm even studying, aside from satisfying my parents.

I'm rather surprised that you're almost making this sound like something crazy, or laughable... :-?

 

[mutzrein]

Re: Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for tod

OK Heidi

Are there people in need where you are? Do you own any land - any real estate? Do you have brothers or sisters in Christ who do . . . and who believe as you?

Put your money where your mouth is. Sell the land and go and lay ALL of the proceeds at the feet of the man you deem to be your apostle.

BTW I think there is a post or two somewhere else I'm waiting for responses to. No rush of course but I wouldn't want them forgotten.

Actually, that's what I'm planning to do at age 25, so I can go to either North Africa or India. That's the only reason I'm even studying, aside from satisfying my parents.

I'm rather surprised that you're almost making this sound like something crazy, or laughable... :-?

On the contrary - it would be a foolish thing to dismiss the calling of God if that is what He has called you to do. But to say to one and all on the basis of an event recorded in scripture that this is a doctrine that all must adhere to, is equally as foolish.

 

[John the Baptist]

Re: Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for tod

OK Heidi

Are there people in need where you are? Do you own any land - any real estate? Do you have brothers or sisters in Christ who do . . . and who believe as you?

Put your money where your mouth is. Sell the land and go and lay ALL of the proceeds at the feet of the man you deem to be your apostle.

BTW I think there is a post or two somewhere else I'm waiting for responses to. No rush of course but I wouldn't want them forgotten.

Actually, that's what Iim planning to do at age 25, so I can go to either North Africa or India. That's the only reason Iim even studying, aside from satisfying my parents.

Iim rather surprised that you're almost making this sound like something crazy, or laughable... :-?

On the contrary - it would be a foolish thing to dismiss the calling of God if that is what He has called you to do. But to say to one and all on the basis of an event recorded in scripture that this is a doctrine that all must adhere to, is equally as foolish.

______

John here: ???????

A 'doctrine'? No, yet it is the [bottom line of all] doctrine which any person to be Born Again has made! Acts 5:32
Christ has simply layed it [all out]. He requires a [complete person], heart, mind, body and soul! It is 'only then' that the Romans 8:14 verse clicks into our being 'Led of the Holy Ghost' as to what is required of all of us. And lands & the dollars surely must, & will be given, as we are 'Led' to do! Both as to when & where.

This is only one gift mentioned of God, & to only some of His children perhaps? But the law of God is still seen today in bottom line that it takes money to make money! There are many gifts other than just wealth as we see it. Yet, it is the motive for using these gifts that 'we' are accountable for, it shows our love to Christ. How much do we love Him, and for how long? True love can become 'lukewarm' and sickening with the individual finally being 'spewed out'.

So it is true that rarely Christ call's for all of ones talents or gifts to be given up completely and at once, for it is these things that He wants an 'increase' on! And the purpose is that He can have even more for soul winning work. And it is true also, that the bottom line of all doctrine is 'death to self' and a 'full surrender' of what we had wanted to call ours, to now call it as it is, it belongs to God! And it is true also that there are many 'soul wrecks' that have not been following Christ that have made disaster with these verses! Or how else do we see a Revelation 17:5 verse? Is there Talent & any material wealth in these folds? See Matthew 4:8-9! :

Yes, 'time' is both talent & money! And the creation of God have been given all of these. Both the surrendered ones & the other ones huh? Some of the other ones use all of their talents in doing a work that is very counter productive to the Masters Desire, (Daniel 7:25) while the Born Again ones are truly being 'Led' with doing a work that is often times hard & misunderstood! Being spent?? Surely, but in many more ways than just dollar bills. :wink:

We need 'help' in our DECISION making! Again Romans 8:14 Look at the many supposed calling's from God to people that are simply call of another!

---John

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus was asked, "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said unto them, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

And it is still about this. Faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

 

[John the Baptist]

Jesus was asked, "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said unto them, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

And it is still about this. Faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

*****
John here:
What are you telling the record books of heaven? : It is hard for me to tell?? Is that the way the Scripture reads in James 2:17, James 2:24-26?????

Surely any True Saving Faith has Works of OBEDIENCE! Huh???? Acts 5:32 tell's us this just has got to be, friend. Is that what you are saying? If one does not OBEY ALL OF THE Holy Ghost's Inspiration, it is not possible to even start out with being Born Again as Christ REQUIRED.

These in the K.J. of John 12:42-43 had ONLY 1/2 of FAITH! and why were they rejected? Because ".. they did not confess Him, least they should be put [out of the synagogue: For they loved the praise of men more that the praise of God.]" Yet there was Love there, huh? See these of Revelation 3:16-17.

Naw the devil's BELIEVE even!! And so do the ones of Revelation 17:5 & Hebrews 6:6 and on and on!! But they are all just flat out LIARS according to Gods Word! See 1 John 2:4. You know, a lying faith! like Matthew 23:3 Christ said: "... but do not do after [their WORKS]: FOR THEY SAY [AND *DO NOT]."

And then we see the even worse ones if that can be? Revelation 22:18-19 Worse??? Well, it is worse because it is all over & FINISHED for these ones!! They had added or removed passages from the Word of God by their Faith that WORKS PART. (even as today with reams & reams of satan's garbage) So [GOD REMOVES THEIR NAME FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE].

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus was asked, "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said unto them, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

And it is still about this. Faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

*****
John here:
What are you telling the record books of heaven? : It is hard for me to tell?? Is that the way the Scripture reads in James 2:17, James 2:24-26?????

Surely any True Saving Faith has Works of OBEDIENCE! Huh???? Acts 5:32 tell's us this just has got to be, friend. Is that what you are saying? If one does not OBEY ALL OF THE Holy Ghost's Inspiration, it is not possible to even start out with being Born Again as Christ REQUIRED.

These in the K.J. of John 12:42-43 had ONLY 1/2 of FAITH! and why were they rejected? Because ".. they did not confess Him, least they should be put [out of the synagogue: For they loved the praise of men more that the praise of God.]" Yet there was Love there, huh? See these of Revelation 3:16-17.

Naw the devil's BELIEVE even!! And so do the ones of Revelation 17:5 & Hebrews 6:6 and on and on!! But they are all just flat out LIARS according to Gods Word! See 1 John 2:4. You know, a lying faith! like Matthew 23:3 Christ said: "... but do not do after [their WORKS]: FOR THEY SAY [AND *DO NOT]."

And then we see the even worse ones if that can be? Revelation 22:18-19 Worse??? Well, it is worse because it is all over & FINISHED for these ones!! They had added or removed passages from the Word of God by their Faith that WORKS PART. (even as today with reams & reams of satan's garbage) So [GOD REMOVES THEIR NAME FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE].

Thanks John - once again tough going

 

[HisFriend]

Re: Acts 3:19

Hey folks - is this doctrinally to you today? Read it closely...

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Note the future tenses - is this verse for you today? When were your sins blotted out?

God bless

Same idea as Acts 2:38.

Our sins are blotted out, remitted, when we are converted into Christ. And yes, since these people were not yet converted, it would be a future thing for them. And their conversion was something that occurred in the far distant past from our perspective.

 

[Ryan Collins]

Acts is the birth of the Christian church and I believe strongly in a church setting principles and such after Acts. Acts is how churches should be today, instead, alot of them are the complete opposite.

 

[mutzrein]

Acts is the birth of the Christian church and I believe strongly in a church setting principles and such after Acts. Acts is how churches should be today, instead, alot of them are the complete opposite.

But do you think that the church today should emulate the deeds of the church as recorded in Acts?

 

[John the Baptist]

Re: Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for tod

[OK Heidi

Are there people in need where you are? Do you own any land - any real estate? Do you have brothers or sisters in Christ who do . . . and who believe as you?

Nice call Mutz - I bet you nobody will take you up on this challenge.

God bless

****
Don't be to sure! The problem with your 'posts' is the mentality that is still behind the Acts 10:10-20 Vision's meaning to Peter with perhaps most of the today's ones. It is all there, yet it still lacks understanding of what the Word of God says! See John 4:6! Same with all of Acts +, +,+ 2 Peter 3:15-17's 'Inspiration'! And.. 'the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.' ??? And you do not believe that Acts is for us today?

Whatever Lord?

---John

 

[mutzrein]

Re: Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for tod

[OK Heidi

Are there people in need where you are? Do you own any land - any real estate? Do you have brothers or sisters in Christ who do . . . and who believe as you?

Nice call Mutz - I bet you nobody will take you up on this challenge.

God bless

****
Don't be to sure! The problem with your 'posts' is the mentality that is still behind the Acts 10:10-20 Vision's meaning to Peter with perhaps most of the today's ones. It is all there, yet it still lacks understanding of what the Word of God says! See John 4:6! Same with all of Acts +, +,+ 2 Peter 3:15-17's 'Inspiration'! And.. 'the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.' ??? And you do not believe that Acts is for us today?

Whatever Lord?

---John

Thanks John - I have answered this in previous posts. Cheers

 

[mutzrein]

Re: Do you believe everything in Acts is doctrinally for tod

[OK Heidi

Are there people in need where you are? Do you own any land - any real estate? Do you have brothers or sisters in Christ who do . . . and who believe as you?

Nice call Mutz - I bet you nobody will take you up on this challenge.

God bless

****
Don't be to sure! The problem with your 'posts' is the mentality that is still behind the Acts 10:10-20 Vision's meaning to Peter with perhaps most of the today's ones. It is all there, yet it still lacks understanding of what the Word of God says! See John 4:6! Same with all of Acts +, +,+ 2 Peter 3:15-17's 'Inspiration'! And.. 'the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.' ??? And you do not believe that Acts is for us today?

Whatever Lord?

---John

Thanks John - I have answered this in previous posts. Cheers

 

[sehad]

I am new to the forum and I am still deciding on my own personal views of this topic. I was raised old time Pentecostal (ie. no television, no sports, no jewlery, etc..) As a child I just accepted this teaching as the way I should live and be. But as I've gotten older I've began to search these teachings out. Some of my outlooks on some of these teachings have changed, but I believe with all my heart that one must follow Acts 2:38 to be saved. But having not finished my own personal study so I will not comment on this subject as of now. I just have one question. Has anyone ever changed their opinion, and I use this term loosely because to me your belief is an opinion and my belief is an opinion to you, due to something they've read on here? There are some things that are a grey area(gambling, alcohol, jewlery, clothing) but there are some things that are not. And the plan of salvation is one that is not a grey area. I was raised that you must Repent, be Baptised in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues to be saved and so far in my studying of this I have not changed my mind. But I am open to if I can be shown where this is wrong. I know I'm new but just reading some of the posts in here, it's almost like some of you want others to come to your side of thinking instead of actually trying to seek out what the truth is.

 

[sehad]

I am new to the forum and I am still deciding on my own personal views of this topic. I was raised old time Pentecostal (ie. no television, no sports, no jewlery, etc..) As a child I just accepted this teaching as the way I should live and be. But as I've gotten older I've began to search these teachings out. Some of my outlooks on some of these teachings have changed, but I believe with all my heart that one must follow Acts 2:38 to be saved. But having not finished my own personal study so I will not comment on this subject as of now. I just have one question. Has anyone ever changed their opinion, and I use this term loosely because to me your belief is an opinion and my belief is an opinion to you, due to something they've read on here? There are some things that are a grey area(gambling, alcohol, jewlery, clothing) but there are some things that are not. And the plan of salvation is one that is not a grey area. I was raised that you must Repent, be Baptised in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues to be saved and so far in my studying of this I have not changed my mind. But I am open to if I can be shown where this is wrong. I know I'm new but just reading some of the posts in here, it's almost like some of you want others to come to your side of thinking instead of actually trying to seek out what the truth is.

 

[mutzrein]

I am new to the forum and I am still deciding on my own personal views of this topic. I was raised old time Pentecostal (ie. no television, no sports, no jewlery, etc..) As a child I just accepted this teaching as the way I should live and be. But as I've gotten older I've began to search these teachings out. Some of my outlooks on some of these teachings have changed, but I believe with all my heart that one must follow Acts 2:38 to be saved. But having not finished my own personal study so I will not comment on this subject as of now. I just have one question. Has anyone ever changed their opinion, and I use this term loosely because to me your belief is an opinion and my belief is an opinion to you, due to something they've read on here? There are some things that are a grey area(gambling, alcohol, jewlery, clothing) but there are some things that are not. And the plan of salvation is one that is not a grey area. I was raised that you must Repent, be Baptised in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues to be saved and so far in my studying of this I have not changed my mind. But I am open to if I can be shown where this is wrong. I know I'm new but just reading some of the posts in here, it's almost like some of you want others to come to your side of thinking instead of actually trying to seek out what the truth is.

Hi sehad. I guess it is the nature of things. We believe what we believe and sometimes no matter what evidence there may be to the contrary, we will stick to what we believe because we believe it to be true.

I was brought up like you and there came a point in my life where I couldn't reconcile some of the things that I had been taught by godly parents and other 'christians' and the things I was reading in scripture. As a result, what was born in me was what I call a 'passion for truth'. I believe truth stands by itself. No matter what you or I or any other person claims to be truth, our perception of it may differ but truth itself cannot change.

So, over the years my thinking / opinions / beliefs have changed considerably but not because I wanted it to change. I have had to be brutally honest with myself and at times eat humble pie when God has revealed something to me that I had previously not held to. And it is these things upon which I stand now.

So now to your question. Have I changed my opinion about doctrinal or theological issues due to being on this or other forums? No.
But, I have learned things? Yes. I have found out that things that God has revealed to me without reference to scripture are actually supported by scripture - biblically and from Hebrew & Greek. I am not learned in these things. People have explained things to me becasue they have studied them. I have also learned that I am not alone in many of my beliefs. Sadly though I have learned that there are many who believe with all their hearts that they have the truth but have not. And therefore another thing I have learned is not to judge. It is Christ alone who will judge mankind.

So, how does that sound? Feel free to ask anything you wish. There are always people willing to let others know what they think - so I guess your job is to know what is and what isn't truth. And there again, it is only Christ who can reveal it.

 

[SputnikBoy]

. . .And the plan of salvation is one that is not a grey area. I was raised that you must Repent, be Baptised in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues to be saved and so far in my studying of this I have not changed my mind.

Once again the issue of 'speaking in tongues' has been brought up in regard to one's ultimate salvation. Will you, sehad, state once and for all - it's like extracting a tooth whenever I ask this question of someone - that one who does NOT 'speak in tongues' does NOT have salvation?

 

[sehad]

Once again the issue of 'speaking in tongues' has been brought up in regard to one's ultimate salvation. Will you, sehad, state once and for all - it's like extracting a tooth whenever I ask this question of someone - that one who does NOT 'speak in tongues' does NOT have salvation?

I know this is a sensitive subject for most people that do believe that speaking in tongues is necessary due to the fact that the bible does not flat out say YOU MUST SPEAK IN TONGUES TO BE SAVED. But here is my outlook on it: God is a jealous God(Ex. 20:5, Ex. 34:14, Deut. 4:24, etc.) and wants every part of our being to be a witness to him. This is evident in his speaking to the church of the Laodiceans in Revelation chapter 3 stating that he would rather them be Hot or Cold instead of lukewarm. In other words, he would rather you be on a bar stool somewhere during church than being there and not giving yourself fully to him and his will. Now I'm not suggesting that we should be totally spiritual all the time, but everything that we are and are about should portray Christ. I would assume (which from reading earlier posts I know is dangerous) that if you TRULY are into this with all your heart that you would want to give every part of yourself to GOD, am I right? Well, all throughout Psalms the "tongue" is depicted as being full of evil, backbiting, lieing, etc.. and James 3:8 states "But the tongue can NO MAN tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison"(KJV). Therefore, if every part of our lives are to be a witness to and of Christ, how can something that we cannot tame, or put under subjection if you will, be a witness to him? So to answer your question, YES I believe that you must have spoken in tongues to have true salvation and speaking in tongues is your way of giving yourself totally to God and him speaking through you. Because at the time that you are speaking in tongues, you know what you are trying to say but it comes out in some other language. At this moment, God is in TOTAL control and something that we cannot tame, God has placed under subjection.

 

[mutzrein]

Once again the issue of 'speaking in tongues' has been brought up in regard to one's ultimate salvation. Will you, sehad, state once and for all - it's like extracting a tooth whenever I ask this question of someone - that one who does NOT 'speak in tongues' does NOT have salvation?

I know this is a sensitive subject for most people that do believe that speaking in tongues is necessary due to the fact that the bible does not flat out say YOU MUST SPEAK IN TONGUES TO BE SAVED. But here is my outlook on it: God is a jealous God(Ex. 20:5, Ex. 34:14, Deut. 4:24, etc.) and wants every part of our being to be a witness to him. This is evident in his speaking to the church of the Laodiceans in Revelation chapter 3 stating that he would rather them be Hot or Cold instead of lukewarm. In other words, he would rather you be on a bar stool somewhere during church than being there and not giving yourself fully to him and his will. Now I'm not suggesting that we should be totally spiritual all the time, but everything that we are and are about should portray Christ. I would assume (which from reading earlier posts I know is dangerous) that if you TRULY are into this with all your heart that you would want to give every part of yourself to GOD, am I right? Well, all throughout Psalms the "tongue" is depicted as being full of evil, backbiting, lieing, etc.. and James 3:8 states "But the tongue can NO MAN tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison"(KJV). Therefore, if every part of our lives are to be a witness to and of Christ, how can something that we cannot tame, or put under subjection if you will, be a witness to him? So to answer your question, YES I believe that you must have spoken in tongues to have true salvation and speaking in tongues is your way of giving yourself totally to God and him speaking through you. Because at the time that you are speaking in tongues, you know what you are trying to say but it comes out in some other language. At this moment, God is in TOTAL control and something that we cannot tame, God has placed under subjection.

As you concede, nowhere does scripture say that 'tongues' is necessary for salvation. So to me it is a rather dangerous thing to say it is necessary in order to have true salvation. Is there another type of salvation?

I think you would also have to concede that tongues is a gift. So I ask you, what if God has not given me the gift of tongues? What if God has given me the gift of prophecy or discernement or some other gift - but not tongues. Does that exclude me from true salvation or perhaps give me salvation at a different level to you? No of course not. God has given each member of the body different gifts. Otherwise, the body could not function.

What do you say to this?