Do you believe in Baptism ????

[Cornelius]

Baptism must be lived before it means something.

Baptism is the parable that shows what happens in the spiritual realm. It symbolizes our death (by going down into the water) and it shows our resurrection with Christ (by our coming up out of the water) But that is just the symbol, now in real life we have to also walk that death to self. Paul tells it as it is when he says:Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service.

After that, we must then learn to live in the resurrected power of Jesus, Who now lives in and through the believer.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi

The greek word is Messias for the hebrew word Messiah.

The greek word of "anointed" is "chrio"

Christ is the greek word - "christos"

Two totally different words.
[/quote]
StoveBolts is correct.

Strong's H4899 - mashiyach - ????????
1) anointed, anointed one
a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince
b) of the king of Israel
c) of the high priest of Israel
d) of Cyrus
e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings

Strong's G5547 - Christos - ???????
Christ = "anointed"
1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
2) anointed

Strong's G3323 - Messias - ???????
Messias = "anointed"
1) the Greek form of Messiah
2) a name of Christ[/quote]


Hi S.

I used the Strongs concordance. And I still stand upon what I said to StoveBolts. :yes

 

[glorydaz]

Baptism must be lived before it means something.

Baptism is the parable that shows what happens in the spiritual realm. It symbolizes our death (by going down into the water) and it shows our resurrection with Christ (by our coming up out of the water) But that is just the symbol, now in real life we have to also walk that death to self. Paul tells it as it is when he says:Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service.

After that, we must then learn to live in the resurrected power of Jesus, Who now lives in and through the believer.

:amen

 

[Nick]

The way I understand this, being Justified by faith (Romans 3:21-4:25) basically means that there are no barriers between different ethnic groups let alone an elevation of one group over another. Justification is God’s judgment and declaration that one is in the right before Him. This judgment will be made on the last day (Judgment day), but is currently brought forward into the present through the blood of Christ. Simply put, by faith in Christ through His blood, God declares us in the right.

Often, Justification and Salvation are used interchangeably and it really can cause all sorts of confusion. Salvation through faith is the means in which God restores us from our fallen state. We are declared righteous by faith, but we are saved through faith.
For example, it is by faith that one comes to the baptismal waters, but it is through faith that Christ unites with the believer and transformation occurs. In other words, faith is the instrument that God uses to pour out his grace.
Likewise, it is by faith that one is obedient to lets say… the offense of theft, but it is grace through faith which transforms one from a thief, to an honest man as we conform to the image of Christ.

The verdict is clear. I have been Justified through Christ and I have been saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved. When one comes to the baptismal waters through faith, one is being saved through means of transformation.

P.S. AV. Christ is greek for the hebrew word Messiah. ;)

. Well said, Jeff!

The same about water baptism can also be said for confirmation in the Anglican church.

If we do water baptism out of legality or some sort of 'obligation', then we are in essensce rejecting salvation by grace through faith. If we rely on one work for salvation, then we must obey the whole Law, thus making Christ useless to us. (Galations 5:2-6) In some more traditional churches, this can become a problem, unfortunately.

 

[Cornelius]

Baptism must be lived before it means something.

Baptism is the parable that shows what happens in the spiritual realm. It symbolizes our death (by going down into the water) and it shows our resurrection with Christ (by our coming up out of the water) But that is just the symbol, now in real life we have to also walk that death to self. Paul tells it as it is when he says:Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service.

After that, we must then learn to live in the resurrected power of Jesus, Who now lives in and through the believer.

:amen

I prefer it when we agree as brothers

 

[Nick]

After disagreeding on things before, Cornelius, it is great to see us agreeing here, brother.

Oh btw Cornelius, do you remember one of those "how are you saved" threads, and you were saying we needed to live out our repentence with deeds, like in James, and I disagreed? Well I want you to know that you helped plant a seed there, and since then it has started to blossum. Thanks brother!

 

[Cornelius]

1Pe 3:20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
1Pe 3:21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

Its not the baptism act that saves, but what it means. its "true likeness". We as Christians only have two things that we "do" We break bread and share the wine together and we get into water to be baptized.

These two things then have to be lived or they mean nothing. If we do not understand why we get into the water, then it is called ..........a bath

When we have a strong reaction against getting baptized, we have to ask ourselves why that is, because most of us (I hope) get into a bath every day and that does not scare us, nor are we unwilling to do so. So its not the water that scares us, it must be what the water represents : Death to self. Its a real death to the old sinful nature that we declare and the fleshly part of us is really scared of it and will jabber all the way , and come up with one million reasons why we should not take it to the water.

I remember how scared I was. I was actually shaking when I went to be baptized. My flesh KNEW that I was going to declare it dead and buried and it really did not want to go along with it. But I dragged it screaming and shouting to the water.................... :yes

 

[Cornelius]

After disagreeding on things before, Cornelius, it is great to see us agreeing here, brother.

Oh btw Cornelius, do you remember one of those "how are you saved" threads, and you were saying we needed to live out our repentence with deeds, like in James, and I disagreed? Well I want you to know that you helped plant a seed there, and since then it has started to blossum. Thanks brother!

Hi brother that is a blessing to hear Nick. It is so wonderful when the Holy Spirit opens something new to us. Don't you just love to grow ? I want to learn something new from the Lord all the time LOL I am always asking and He seems to like it too. I think God delights in our hunger for truth.



Bless you
C

 

[Cornelius]

A wise man taught me to pray this prayer always and many times , over and over and it changed my life:

Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: Oh let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I laid up in my heart, That I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O Jehovah: Teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips have I declared All the ordinances of thy mouth.
Psa 119:14 I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, As much as in all riches.
Psa 119:15 I will meditate on thy precepts, And have respect unto thy ways.
Psa 119:16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

Psa 119:27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: So shall I meditate on thy wondrous works.

Psa 119:35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight.

 

[Nick]

After disagreeding on things before, Cornelius, it is great to see us agreeing here, brother.

Oh btw Cornelius, do you remember one of those "how are you saved" threads, and you were saying we needed to live out our repentence with deeds, like in James, and I disagreed? Well I want you to know that you helped plant a seed there, and since then it has started to blossum. Thanks brother!

Hi brother that is a blessing to hear Nick. It is so wonderful when the Holy Spirit opens something new to us. Don't you just love to grow ? I want to learn something new from the Lord all the time LOL I am always asking and He seems to like it too. I think God delights in our hunger for truth.



Bless you
C

:amen

God bless

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Cornelius: "Its not the baptism act that saves, but what it means. its "true likeness". We as Christians only have two things that we "do" We break bread and share the wine together and we get into water to be baptized.

These two things then have to be lived or they mean nothing. If we do not understand why we get into the water, then it is called ..........a bath"





Hi C.

Baptism does save ! Being baptized into Christ's death does save. Water baptism does not save, nor are we suppose to be water baptized. If you do, you are going back to the law of water cleansing ! And this will bring upon you and others the Law , and blindness ( the vail ) in so doing !

And if you break bread and drink in a ceremonial manner. You again go back to the law of eating the passover meal, and doing the Lord's supper. I Corinth. 11:20 - "When you come together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper" !

Going back to the Law will cause those who do so, to become blinded , and God will cause the vail to cover your eyes. < II Corinth. 3:13 - "abolished" & 14 & 15 - "But even unto this day, when Moses is read (the Law is performed), the vail is upon their heart"

II Corinth. 3:16 - "Nevertheless when it (people) shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away" < Then blindness will be taken away !

We "are" the body of Christ -- the bread > I Corinth. 10:17 and are partakers of this one bread = body of Christ.

Why do you go back to these weak and beggarly ways ? < Galatians 4:9

Was not water cleansing unto the Jews , and a part of the law ? Why would any of you want the gentiles to live as the Jews did ? Who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth ? < Galatians 3:1

Galatians 3:3 - "Are ye so foolish ? having begun in the Spirit , are ye now made perfect by the flesh ?"

Galatians 3:5 - "He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the Law , or by the hearing of faith ? "

Put yourself back under the works of the law !! And you also are under the curse of the law ! ! ! < Galatians 3:10

Who taught you this lie , to go back to the works of the Law ?

 

[stovebolts]

The way I understand this, being Justified by faith (Romans 3:21-4:25) basically means that there are no barriers between different ethnic groups let alone an elevation of one group over another. Justification is God’s judgment and declaration that one is in the right before Him. This judgment will be made on the last day (Judgment day), but is currently brought forward into the present through the blood of Christ. Simply put, by faith in Christ through His blood, God declares us in the right.

Often, Justification and Salvation are used interchangeably and it really can cause all sorts of confusion. Salvation through faith is the means in which God restores us from our fallen state. We are declared righteous by faith, but we are saved through faith.
For example, it is by faith that one comes to the baptismal waters, but it is through faith that Christ unites with the believer and transformation occurs. In other words, faith is the instrument that God uses to pour out his grace.
Likewise, it is by faith that one is obedient to lets say… the offense of theft, but it is grace through faith which transforms one from a thief, to an honest man as we conform to the image of Christ.

The verdict is clear. I have been Justified through Christ and I have been saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved. When one comes to the baptismal waters through faith, one is being saved through means of transformation.

P.S. AV. Christ is greek for the hebrew word Messiah. ;)

Hi

The greek word is Messias for the hebrew word Messiah.

The greek word of "anointed" is "chrio"

Christ is the greek word - "christos"

Two totally different words.

And , the apostle Paul was never water baptized. And neither did he teach water baptizing to the church. The baptism he taught the church was the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus filfilled the law of water cleansing by being water baptized by John the baptist. To fulfill all righteousness - Matt. 3:15

Hello

Jesus correctly taught (also by example) "The Way" of the Law.
Jesus fulfilled "The Law" by way of the Cross as the Cross functions as the Alter and the Alter grounds the Table.

Without getting into a deep conversation regarding the etymology of these words, if we look at the general semantics for both Christos and Messias you will see that they connote the same general meaning.
John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things.

I think it's a stretch to make the claim that Paul was not baptized through water in Acts 9. Do you also believe that Acts 2:38 omits water as well? :bounceball

 

[stovebolts]

Baptism does save ! Being baptized into Christ's death does save. Water baptism does not save, nor are we suppose to be water baptized. If you do, you are going back to the law of water cleansing ! And this will bring upon you and others the Law , and blindness ( the vail ) in so doing !

Gentiles were never under the Law of Moses, so the "law of water cleansing" wouldn't apply.

According to Ezekiel and Jeremiah, a new covenant would take place, and that covenant was through Christ Jesus our Lord. Where once the law was written on stone tablets, the law would instead be written upon one's heart. (Jer 31:31)

Water Baptism was normative in the early church as a visual sign of one's entrance into the Living Body of Christ. Furthermore, when one enters the baptismal pool through faith as a response to the gospel, one is assured the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 10:47 “No one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?†10:48 So he gave orders to have them baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for several days.

Just as we did...
have them baptized...

 

[Cornelius]

Water baptism does not save, nor are we suppose to be water baptized. If you do, you are going back to the law of water cleansing ! And this will bring upon you and others the Law , and blindness ( the vail ) in so doing !

Act 8:35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing.

 

[Cornelius]

And if you break bread and drink in a ceremonial manner. You again go back to the law of eating the passover meal, and doing the Lord's supper. I Corinth. 11:20 - "When you come together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper" !

1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come.

 

[Mysteryman]

Water baptism does not save, nor are we suppose to be water baptized. If you do, you are going back to the law of water cleansing ! And this will bring upon you and others the Law , and blindness ( the vail ) in so doing !

Act 8:35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing.

Hi C.

Two questions

1. Did Philip have a hand in writting the Word of God ?

2. What Philip did, was it according to the will of God, or the will of the enuch ?

 

[Mysteryman]

And if you break bread and drink in a ceremonial manner. You again go back to the law of eating the passover meal, and doing the Lord's supper. I Corinth. 11:20 - "When you come together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper" !

1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come.

Hi C.

Any scripture taken out of context falls in the category of ignorance. (Lack of knowledge) - Or it is done intentionally when taken out of context. I would want to believe that in this case it is lack of knowledge.

If not, then the intent was to take scripture out of context. I pray that is not the case !

 

[stovebolts]

Let's not take this to the place of the Lord's Supper. Please start a new topic if you feel the need to discuss it further.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote StoveBolts: "I think it's a stretch to make the claim that Paul was not baptized through water in Acts 9."

Hi Jeff

The opposite is true. Its a very huge stretch to make an assumption that is not true. Paul was never - ever water baptized.

All Ananias did, was what the Lord told him to do --- lay hands on him.

Water baptism by John the baptist , was to fulfill the law of water cleansing.

Acts 10:47 is always misunderstood, especially by those who are doing the law of water cleansing. Two significant things to remember here. 1. Cornelius and his family were gentiles - and there is no requirement by Peter that they must be water baptized, which is John's baptism. His comment here, is said by Peter, unto the Jews who were with him. This comment was not said unto Cornelius and his household. Can any man forbid water -- means -- can any man restrick water. And the answer is no, no man can. Which is why Peter told these Jews this comment. In otherwords, can any man forbid, those whom God has called out ? Since these were the first gentiles ! If you read Acts chapter 11, you will notice Peter explaining this to the other disciples. And there is absolutely no mention of him water baptizing anyone. < Acts 11:16 & 17

Now take these words of Peter in Acts 11:16 & 17 and go back to Matt. 3:11 - I indeed baptize you with water, But He shall baptize you with Holy Spirit and fire << Not water, but fire !

On the day of Pentecost, they were baptized with Holy Spirit and fire, which is what Peter was refering too in Acts 11:17.

 

[stovebolts]

The opposite is true. Its a very huge stretch to make an assumption that is not true. Paul was never - ever water baptized.

So your saying that Ananias denied water to Paul, yet Cornelius was not denied water?