Nick said:
Mysteryman said:
Quote Cornelius: "Its not the baptism act that saves, but what it means. its "true likeness". We as Christians only have two things that we "do" We break bread and share the wine together and we get into water to be baptized.
These two things then have to be lived or they mean nothing. If we do not understand why we get into the water, then it is called ..........a bath"
Hi C.
Baptism does save ! Being baptized into Christ's death does save. Water baptism does not save, nor are we suppose to be water baptized. If you do, you are going back to the law of water cleansing ! And this will bring upon you and others the Law , and blindness ( the vail ) in so doing !
And if you break bread and drink in a ceremonial manner. You again go back to the law of eating the passover meal, and doing the Lord's supper. I Corinth. 11:20 - "When you come together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper" !
Going back to the Law will cause those who do so, to become blinded , and God will cause the vail to cover your eyes. < II Corinth. 3:13 - "abolished" & 14 & 15 - "But even unto this day, when Moses is read (the Law is performed), the vail is upon their heart"
II Corinth. 3:16 - "Nevertheless when it (people) shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away" < Then blindness will be taken away !
We "are" the body of Christ -- the bread > I Corinth. 10:17 and are partakers of this one bread = body of Christ.
Why do you go back to these weak and beggarly ways ? < Galatians 4:9
Was not water cleansing unto the Jews , and a part of the law ? Why would any of you want the gentiles to live as the Jews did ? Who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth ? < Galatians 3:1
Galatians 3:3 - "Are ye so foolish ? having begun in the Spirit , are ye now made perfect by the flesh ?"
Galatians 3:5 - "He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the Law , or by the hearing of faith ? "
Put yourself back under the works of the law !! And you also are under the curse of the law ! ! ! < Galatians 3:10
Who taught you this lie , to go back to the works of the Law ?
By your logic, anything we do that is found in the old Law will make Christ redundant, even if we are saved through faith. That's not right. We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ not by our own works, but as a gift from God, so that none may boast. Having said that, it is not bad for us to do lots of good things that are found in the old Law.
When Paul is speaking in Galations about putting yourself back under the Law, that means that you are relying on the Law for salvation. He does not mean that if we are saved by faith we cannot do anything under the Law.
Hi Nick
I believe this is the first time we have had an exchange with one another.
Yes, we were saved by grace and not by works.
But where you are making a mistake, is in your rendering of the book of Galatians. The Galatians were not concerned about their salvation. They were deceived into being concerned about their justification.
They were deceived into believing that they needed to do the works of the law in order to be
justified. This is why the apostle Paul made this comment in Galatians 2:16 - "Knowing that a man is
not justified by the works of the law --------- for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
And in verse 17 - "But if, while we seek to be justified in Christ , we ourselves also are found sinners" --- then it goes on to say -- "is therefore Christ the minister of sin ? God forbid"
Galatians 2:19 - "For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God"
Jump down to verse 21 - "I do not frustrate the grace of God : for if righteousness come by the law, the Christ is dead in vain" < Here we see that one who thinks they can be justified by the works of the law, also believe that they are doing something righteous by doing the works of the law, which is not true !
John's baptism , was water baptism, and it fulfilled the righteousness of the Law. The purpose of John's baptism, was to bring about the fulfilling of the Law of water cleansing. Jesus Christ was our passover lamb, and thus needed to be water cleansed.
The law of water cleansing has been fulfilled, by way of John's baptism. If we seek justification by continuing to do water cleansing, we then have fallen back into the works of the law, in that, the works of the law justify us by our works. Which is untrue !
This is why it is important for those who have fallen into this trap of deception, to read chapter 3 of Galatians.
Remember , most of us are gentiles who have been brought into the body of Christ. And even though, IN Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. The make up of the body of Christ is made up of Jews and Gentiles. Mostly Gentiles though. And the Gentiles
were never asked of God
to "do" as the Jews did !
This is why we are not to do a ritual of water baptizing, not should we do a ceremony of doing the Lord's supper. Neither one of these justify in any way ! Galatians 3:11 - But that no man is
Justified by the law in the sight of God"
The Lord's supper, was the fulfilling of the law of the Passover meal. Once the law was fulfilled, then it has been fulfilled. Never to be done again ! It is finished !
The law of water cleansing has been fulfilled. Once the law was fulfilled, then it has been fulfilled. Never to be done again ! It is finished !
Galatians 3:10 - "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse"
Galatians 3:13 - "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law"
So why go back to the weak and beggarly elements ? Why go back and put one's self back under bondage ? < Galatians 4:9
The Word says " till he come" and whatever you say is pointless and only your personal opinion.
