Do you believe in predestination ?

[Fastfredy0]

Getting nothing from nothing is impossible...but isn't it said that all things are possible, if one only believes?

Can 1 + 1 = 3 .... the impossible is not ever possible.
Technicality: Ah, since NOTHING is not a thing, technically "all THINGS are possible" does not apply .. *WINK*

Where do I complain about being given a headache?

God ordains that you would get a headache .... speak to Him about it. *wink*

 

[Norman]

O most sovereign Lord...these sons of Yours are giving me a headache...well, I know I don't have to be on that thread, but, but...sigh, okay, as usual, You are right! And awesome!

 

[Norman]

Oops...we were predestined to have this conversation...that's on topic, right? Whew! Just in the nick of time! Lol

 

[Vince]

Remember that predestination refers ONLY to being conformed to the image of God's Son, and to be adopted as sons.

Predestination to Heaven, to Hell, to Christ, to belief, to sin, etc., are philosophies of men that contradict the Word of God.

Unconditional election is, itself, a pagan philosophy. The false prophet Mani clearly taught that accepting his doctrines required a rejection of Christianity. Mani's greatest disciple, St. Augustine, also understood that unconditional election is a pagan doctrine. Both men argued that Christians are corrupted by the errors of the Word of God, and require the light of paganism to correct their errors.

 

[Edward]

I believe in predestination ACCORDING TO FOREKNOWLEDGE. That is its biblical explanation.

The somewhat hokey but fairly accurate picture is God looks down the tunnel of time and sees who will believe and persist in believing to the end.

Thus Free Will and God's predestination ACCORDING TO FOREKNOWLEDGE are preserved.

That's the thing about God though. He's Omnipresent. And I believe that many people misunderstand that to be God is always present with us at any point in time of our lives.

But it doesn't mean that. What it really means is God is always present with us at every point of our lives including before and after Earth. God is not subject to time and is outside it's influences. Is anything too hard for God?

So when He wrote the book on each of us...He was already there with us and knew exactly how it would turn out, so no changes ever need to be made as Freddy suggested when he was being short sighted.

 

[Edward]

So, God wrote the book but it is changeable. In other words, it is a work of fiction to some extent. This also means God is no all knowing, that he learns from our decisions and the we control Him to some extent as He is obligated to us to respond according to our decision. Interesting theory.


So, we predestine ourselves. Somehow God chose us before time began, when we were nothing. So he chose us conditionally. If we have libertarian free will, how does God even know we will exist. For example, someone may or may not decide to kill his son and thus the prodigy of the son will not or will exist as determined by a yet to be determined decision of the father to kill his son. This gives new meaning to an all knowing God.
I can't say I agree brother, but your statements have interesting consequences IMO.

Idk but it sounds like you don't have much faith in God?

Understand omnipresent. Us here on earth is looking forward in time but can't see what is ahead of us. But God is already there with us right now at this moment. God don't walk a timeline, He is outside of it.

I think you might be being a tad too flippant about this whole topic Brother.

 

[Vince]

God is not subject to time and is outside it's influences.

I taught both science and Bible in Christian high school. I would quote Jesus' statement "Before Abraham was, I Am."

God created time, and He existed before time existed. God is not bound or limited by time.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Idk but it sounds like you don't have much faith in God?

You are welcome to your opinion. God warns about judging the faith of others.

Us here on earth is looking forward in time but can't see what is ahead of us. But God is already there with us right now at this moment.

I am not sure what this means.

God don't walk a timeline, He is outside of it.

Agreed to the extent that He is outside of time (eternal), but He also deals with us in time so to some extent He is in time also and condescends to our limitations.

I guess the most telling thing about your response to my post #148 is you didn't address any of my arguments showing your arguments were lacking.

 

[Edward]

I am not sure what this means.

Actually I worded that wrong. First though, there's a theory gaining ground about creation, earth is 6000 years old, no it's not it's 13.5 billion years old and we have the archeology to prove it! As it turns out, both schools of thought could be true simultaneously.

Imagine the whole universe, space and time, all the planets come into being like a balloon. Everyone knows the universe is expanding, right? And Einstein figured out that time and space are connected. When one speaks of time, he speaks of space and vice versa. Modern scientists have calculated and measured that our universe is expanding at the same rate that time does. So, space-time.

So there's our balloon universe sitting there and expanding all the time. Now, people are able to look backward in time through archeology and such, but we are unable to see into the future.

As the theory goes, creation is at the inlet of the balloon, and all of heaven (being outside of time/balloon) look forward into the universe and from their perspective, creation took 6 24 hour days...but we're at the tip of the expanding balloon looking backwards, so it works out to 13 or 14 billion years from our perspective.

The expansion of space affects space and tweaks it somehow to allow this phenomenon to be. I admit I do not fully understand it, I'm no scientist, but I can visualize how it could work by the balloon illustration. And in fact scripture does talk about space being stretched and rolled up like a scroll and stuff so it may well be trueish.

 

[Edward]

You are welcome to your opinion. God warns about judging the faith of others.


I am not sure what this means.



Agreed to the extent that He is outside of time (eternal), but He also deals with us in time so to some extent He is in time also and condescends to our limitations.

I guess the most telling thing about your response to my post #148 is you didn't address any of my arguments showing your arguments were lacking.

I got a little side tracked with that space time stuff, but let me ask you a question specifically about the topic. of predestination...

If unconditional election / pre-destination is true...then what in God's name am I to do about all of those warnings in the Bible? Warnings to us are all throughout te bible, but if predestined then we can't fail anyway so no warnings are needed.

And yet...it's full of warnings Brother.
Ephesians 5:15
Romans 12:2
1 John 4:1
Proverbs 3:5-6
Matthew 12:36
Ephesians 4:29, 5:4
Colossians 4:6
Proverbs 20: 22
1 Thessalonians 5: 22


The Bible is fraught with warnings to us and admonitions on how to live right. But if I am predestined then why are they even in there?

Help the poor? Out of my profit or my sustenance? Why? I need a new toy, besides, I'm elected.

You see, that just does not have the aroma of God to it, to me.

 

[Norman]

Actually I worded that wrong. First though, there's a theory gaining ground about creation, earth is 6000 years old, no it's not it's 13.5 billion years old and we have the archeology to prove it! As it turns out, both schools of thought could be true simultaneously.

Imagine the whole universe, space and time, all the planets come into being like a balloon. Everyone knows the universe is expanding, right? And Einstein figured out that time and space are connected. When one speaks of time, he speaks of space and vice versa. Modern scientists have calculated and measured that our universe is expanding at the same rate that time does. So, space-time.

So there's our balloon universe sitting there and expanding all the time. Now, people are able to look backward in time through archeology and such, but we are unable to see into the future.

As the theory goes, creation is at the inlet of the balloon, and all of heaven (being outside of time/balloon) look forward into the universe and from their perspective, creation took 6 24 hour days...but we're at the tip of the expanding balloon looking backwards, so it works out to 13 or 14 billion years from our perspective.

The expansion of space affects space and tweaks it somehow to allow this phenomenon to be. I admit I do not fully understand it, I'm no scientist, but I can visualize how it could work by the balloon illustration. And in fact scripture does talk about space being stretched and rolled up like a scroll and stuff so it may well be trueish.

I don't believe it's a theory.

 

[JLB]

Oops...we were predestined to have this conversation...that's on topic, right? Whew! Just in the nick of time! Lol

Judas Iscariot was predestined to reign and rule with Christ and the other eleven apostles, in the age to come.

Words of Christ in red —

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


If Judas would have continued to faithfully follow Christ to the end, like the others, then he would have received his inheritance.






JLB

 

[Norman]

 

[Edward]

I don't believe it's a theory.

You're right Brother. But being no scientist, I's being polite to the crowd Lol.

Like, the Lord is looking through some binoculars normally from His end, and we're looking looking the wrong way through the lenses so it looks real far.

 

[Norman]

I spent most of my life being deceived by this world. After years of the Lord leading me through the internet and peeling away one lie after another, and when I started thinking that perhaps the earth wasn't that old, and then when the one man in this world I truly respect said the same thing, I decided that with the best information I have, the world's 6,000 years old.
I get laughed at for all kinds of things. With the little respect that I now have for the majority of mankind, including the "church" (not it's real name), when it comes to people mocking me, I could give a rat's pitouie about what anybody thinks, says, or does. What matters to me is this...
I am on the road...to my home...in the New Jerusalem...and no one can stop me!

I clearly remember the instant He brought me into being. My beginning.
I remember standing on that golden street, looking into Yeshua's eyes. My end.
I've seen my beginning...I've seen my end....predestination...I guess.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Judas Iscariot is in HELL.​

The Bible clearly indicates that Judas was not saved. Jesus Himself said of Judas, “The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24).

In John 17:12, Jesus prays concerning His disciples, “While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Gotquestions.org

 

[for_his_glory]

OSAS vx OSNAS

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Is this still a policy of this board?

Yes, this is still in affect and f you see anyone discussing this please send the staff a report. For now I see no one discussing this.

 

[JLB]

Judas Iscariot is in HELL.​

The Bible clearly indicates that Judas was not saved. Jesus Himself said of Judas, “The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24).

In John 17:12, Jesus prays concerning His disciples, “While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Gotquestions.org

Whether Judas Iscariot is in hell or not is not the subject of this thread.

The fact is according to scripture Judas Iscariot was predestined to reign and rule with Christ and the other eleven apostles, in the age to come.

Words of Christ in red —

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


If Judas would have continued to faithfully follow Christ to the end, like the others, then he would have received his inheritance.







JLB

 

[JLB]

The Bible clearly indicates that Judas was not saved. Jesus Himself said of Judas, “The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24).

This of course does not say Judas Iscariot was not saved.

 

[JLB]

In John 17:12, Jesus prays concerning His disciples, “While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Gotquestions.org

Here is what the actual scripture says


While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12


Can someone lose what doesnt belong to them?

Was Lucifer a son of God like the other angels?

Did the prodigal son become lost?



The fact is according to scripture Judas Iscariot was predestined to reign and rule with Christ and the other eleven apostles, in the age to come.

Words of Christ in red —

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


If Judas would have continued to faithfully follow Christ to the end, like the others, then he would have received his inheritance.





JLB