Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Do you belong to the Church?
- Thread starter JM
- Start date
W
WyldCyde
Guest
Yes, if you mean the spiritual body of Christ.
It's not a matter of thinking, its a matter of knowing according to scripture and inner witness of Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus is the Son of God and that He is Lord. My life has also been manifestly changed by this belief... through the power of the Holy Spirit.
These scriptures are foundational:
Body of Christ
Rom12:15 ; 1Cor12:12 ; 1Cor12:27 ; Eph5:23 ; Col1:24 ; Col3:15
Church
Eph1:22 ; Eph5:23-32 ; Col1:18 ; 1Tim3:15 ; Heb12:23
No, if you mean a four-walled meeting on a sunday morning.
I do meet with other believers regularly... we worship, pray, eat & fellowship together.
shalom
WyldCyde
It's not a matter of thinking, its a matter of knowing according to scripture and inner witness of Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus is the Son of God and that He is Lord. My life has also been manifestly changed by this belief... through the power of the Holy Spirit.
These scriptures are foundational:
Body of Christ
Rom12:15 ; 1Cor12:12 ; 1Cor12:27 ; Eph5:23 ; Col1:24 ; Col3:15
Church
Eph1:22 ; Eph5:23-32 ; Col1:18 ; 1Tim3:15 ; Heb12:23
No, if you mean a four-walled meeting on a sunday morning.
I do meet with other believers regularly... we worship, pray, eat & fellowship together.
shalom
WyldCyde
C
Charlotte
Guest
I belong to the body of Christ, the Ekklesia, not some Church building. Sure I meet with others at times and discuss God's word but I do not belong to any Church organization.
Charlotte
Charlotte
W
WyldCyde
Guest
what is a heretic based on scripture?
not based on opinion, dictionaries and deductions.
please show the scriptures that use the exact or equivalent word for heretic or heresy and then we can have an idea of what a heretic is and what implications that has on someone's status as relating to the church and body of christ.
Interestingly I find the words heresy & heretic nowhere in NIV translation and in the KJV I find them only in the following places:
Please quote other scriptures if you can think of any.
cheers
WyldCyde
not based on opinion, dictionaries and deductions.
please show the scriptures that use the exact or equivalent word for heretic or heresy and then we can have an idea of what a heretic is and what implications that has on someone's status as relating to the church and body of christ.
Interestingly I find the words heresy & heretic nowhere in NIV translation and in the KJV I find them only in the following places:
and
Please quote other scriptures if you can think of any.
cheers
WyldCyde
Rose of Sharon
Member
The body of the Church is the Bride and to belong to the Bride you need to be water baptized in Jesus name and be filled with the Holyghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. Acts 2:38
Jesus will be coming for his bride, the church, in the rapture, the catching away of the Bride. He will come in an hour you least expect.
It is not nessesarily a certain organization or denomination you need to belong to, you just need to obey Acts 2:38. When you do this , God will reveal to you what you need to do with the rest of your walk with him till he comes for you, his Bride, his church.
Will you be ready?
Jesus will be coming for his bride, the church, in the rapture, the catching away of the Bride. He will come in an hour you least expect.
It is not nessesarily a certain organization or denomination you need to belong to, you just need to obey Acts 2:38. When you do this , God will reveal to you what you need to do with the rest of your walk with him till he comes for you, his Bride, his church.
Will you be ready?
C
Charlotte
Guest
Jason, I get the feeling you are referring to me as a heretic. Thats ok, the Pharisees said that Jesus had a devil and accused him of blasphemy, so its no suprise that someone call me a heretic.
(Matt. 5:11) Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Charlotte
(Matt. 5:11) Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Charlotte
:
W
WyldCyde
Guest
jason, the timing of your comment about heresy & heretics did raise my eyebrow... since i know you're scofield and are familiar with us.
perhaps i also read into the coincidence
do you have any comments about my post?
I hear people using the words heretic and heresy but those terms are only used twice in KJV. And one of the those references is Paul declaring that his opposers thoughts he was a heretic.
I think true heretics are often people who never really knew God and Jesus Christ in the first place.
WyldCyde
perhaps i also read into the coincidence
do you have any comments about my post?
I hear people using the words heretic and heresy but those terms are only used twice in KJV. And one of the those references is Paul declaring that his opposers thoughts he was a heretic.
I think true heretics are often people who never really knew God and Jesus Christ in the first place.
WyldCyde
WyldCyde said:
My idealism is almost gone, so no, I have no comment on any of the posts thus far. I'm thankful for your posts and ask that you continue to post.
I will say that heretic may not be in the Bible often but we do see false teaching and false teachers spoken of. What that has to do with, I don't know. I do know that my idealism was a reaction to the way the Greek Orthodox Church delt with my ethnic background, I tossed the baby out with the bath water and started to proclaim all tradition was bad. When in fact I guess I never believed that which is why I always use James White's definition of sola scriptura. After all, we as Bible Christians hold to sola scriptura which is our tradition.
arch-heretic,
j
E
evanman
Guest
I belong to Christ.
Jason,
Yes and no. When Christians use the term heresy, they usually use it as defining a belief which one cannot believe and remain a Christian. However, the actual meaning of the word is "to prefer," so in that sense, every Christian is a heretic and we need to be. But the broader meaning is that which deviates from orthodoxy.
Based on that, I would say that there are degrees of heresy. There are heresies one can believe and remain a Christian, but there are some that if one believes, they cannot possibly be a Christian.
A good example of a heresy which one can believe and remain a Christian was found right in this thread:
to belong to the Bride you need to be water baptized in Jesus name and be filled with the Holyghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
It is wrong and in error, but that doesn't mean one who believes that isn't a Christian.
A couple of examples of heresy which if one believes, they cannot be a Christian is Arianism - the idea that Jesus was a created being (JWs), and Gnosticism, which some of the NT writers wrote against. Gnosticism believed that Jesus was a created being and, therefore, denied his deity. Those who deny the deity of Christ are essentially agreeing with the Gnostics that Paul and John refute.
And this is where the church and tradition come in. By looking at church history and what the ECFs taught, one can root out such fatal heresies.
Yes and no. When Christians use the term heresy, they usually use it as defining a belief which one cannot believe and remain a Christian. However, the actual meaning of the word is "to prefer," so in that sense, every Christian is a heretic and we need to be. But the broader meaning is that which deviates from orthodoxy.
Based on that, I would say that there are degrees of heresy. There are heresies one can believe and remain a Christian, but there are some that if one believes, they cannot possibly be a Christian.
A good example of a heresy which one can believe and remain a Christian was found right in this thread:
to belong to the Bride you need to be water baptized in Jesus name and be filled with the Holyghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
It is wrong and in error, but that doesn't mean one who believes that isn't a Christian.
A couple of examples of heresy which if one believes, they cannot be a Christian is Arianism - the idea that Jesus was a created being (JWs), and Gnosticism, which some of the NT writers wrote against. Gnosticism believed that Jesus was a created being and, therefore, denied his deity. Those who deny the deity of Christ are essentially agreeing with the Gnostics that Paul and John refute.
And this is where the church and tradition come in. By looking at church history and what the ECFs taught, one can root out such fatal heresies.
C
Charlotte
Guest
Free,
Just because some person or persons took the word heretic and applied it to certain denominations, doesn't make it right. You are right in that we are all heretics in one aspect or another, because not one of us have all of the truth. If we think we do, we are fooling ourselves.
By the way, I am glad I am not a member of any of the denominations you called heretics. I guess that means I am not a heretic, or am I?
Charlotte
Just because some person or persons took the word heretic and applied it to certain denominations, doesn't make it right. You are right in that we are all heretics in one aspect or another, because not one of us have all of the truth. If we think we do, we are fooling ourselves.
By the way, I am glad I am not a member of any of the denominations you called heretics. I guess that means I am not a heretic, or am I?
Charlotte
Charlotte,
But there are beliefs out there regarding Christianity that are heretical. There comes a time when the foot has to be put down, otherwise people can believe anything they want and still consider themselves Christians. Just look at the Jesus Seminar and people like Bishop Shelby Spong. They are not only heretical, they are anti-Christ. They lead millions astray by the garbage they teach and they are not the only ones.
I don't think I mentioned any denomination.
But there are beliefs out there regarding Christianity that are heretical. There comes a time when the foot has to be put down, otherwise people can believe anything they want and still consider themselves Christians. Just look at the Jesus Seminar and people like Bishop Shelby Spong. They are not only heretical, they are anti-Christ. They lead millions astray by the garbage they teach and they are not the only ones.
I don't think I mentioned any denomination.
C
Charlotte
Guest
Free,
The problem I see with labeling someone a heretic and I assume you mean that a heretic is a denomination who is teaching anything false, am I correct? Or does it have to be a particular false doctrine before they are labeled a heretic?
We all think we are absolutely right in most of what we believe. Some think I am a heretic, and some of the ones who have called me a heretic, have themselves been called a heretic. So, who knows for certain who is wrong on a particular thing. I believe God allows each of us to believe what he wants us to believe. I don't think any of us can come to understand the absolute truth on any subject unless God opens our minds to understand it. I believe only God should have the authority to decide who is wrong and who is right concerning His word, because He is the only one who knows His creation from beginning to end. I don't believe any man on earth knows the truth on everything, therefore I don't think any man should judge another on their beliefs. I do think it is good to discuss our beliefs with others whether we agree with what they say or not. Who knows whether God will use you to open a mind. I have had to change my mind a few times, down through the years and I may have to change it again if I am proven to be wrong. I try to keep an open mind and I try to see thing from the other persons point of view. I try not to reject something new unless I really study it and prove to myself whether it is wrong or not.
I didn't mean to rattle on so much, I just needed to get it off of my chest.
God Bless.
Charlotte
The problem I see with labeling someone a heretic and I assume you mean that a heretic is a denomination who is teaching anything false, am I correct? Or does it have to be a particular false doctrine before they are labeled a heretic?
We all think we are absolutely right in most of what we believe. Some think I am a heretic, and some of the ones who have called me a heretic, have themselves been called a heretic. So, who knows for certain who is wrong on a particular thing. I believe God allows each of us to believe what he wants us to believe. I don't think any of us can come to understand the absolute truth on any subject unless God opens our minds to understand it. I believe only God should have the authority to decide who is wrong and who is right concerning His word, because He is the only one who knows His creation from beginning to end. I don't believe any man on earth knows the truth on everything, therefore I don't think any man should judge another on their beliefs. I do think it is good to discuss our beliefs with others whether we agree with what they say or not. Who knows whether God will use you to open a mind. I have had to change my mind a few times, down through the years and I may have to change it again if I am proven to be wrong. I try to keep an open mind and I try to see thing from the other persons point of view. I try not to reject something new unless I really study it and prove to myself whether it is wrong or not.
I didn't mean to rattle on so much, I just needed to get it off of my chest.
God Bless.
Charlotte
Charlotte,
Well, anything that differs from orthodoxy is heretical and one can be an orthodox heretic (that is, within the Christian church), but there are particular false doctrines which, being heretical, cause one to cease being orthodox, removing themselves from Christianity.
This is like the JWs (denying the deity of Christ; Arianism) and Mormons (giving deity to everyone who believes; polytheism). They claim to be Christian denominations, but their views are so incompatible with orthodox Christianity, that there is no way that they can be considered Christian. Although, being based on false teachings of Christianity, they would rightly be called Christian heretics.
On some things we may not know if we are wrong, but there are basic doctrines that have been held since the beginning of Christianity which are termed "essential." It is these that determine whether one is a Christian. I don't think God cares so much about the non-essential doctrines (waiting for presbuteros to step in...
) that his grace won't cover our errors, but we have to draw the line somewhere. To deny the essential, core doctrines is to deny Christ and Christianity - all that Jesus and the Apostles taught.
We cannot just believe whatever we want to believe otherwise the chance is great that we fall away from Christ altogether without even knowing it. That is why God instituted the Church, to keep us from falling into error.
The writings of the NT judge a lot of false doctrine and spell out the impending doom for false teachers. God has given us enough to be able to judge what is false and the Church really needs to get its act together and start getting rid of false teachings and teachers.
Same here. I am constantly being challanged and altering my beliefs when I feel something is more truthful or closer to the truth. It is happening almost daily.
:D Rattle away. This is extremely important stuff to be discussing.
Well, anything that differs from orthodoxy is heretical and one can be an orthodox heretic (that is, within the Christian church), but there are particular false doctrines which, being heretical, cause one to cease being orthodox, removing themselves from Christianity.
This is like the JWs (denying the deity of Christ; Arianism) and Mormons (giving deity to everyone who believes; polytheism). They claim to be Christian denominations, but their views are so incompatible with orthodox Christianity, that there is no way that they can be considered Christian. Although, being based on false teachings of Christianity, they would rightly be called Christian heretics.
On some things we may not know if we are wrong, but there are basic doctrines that have been held since the beginning of Christianity which are termed "essential." It is these that determine whether one is a Christian. I don't think God cares so much about the non-essential doctrines (waiting for presbuteros to step in...
) that his grace won't cover our errors, but we have to draw the line somewhere. To deny the essential, core doctrines is to deny Christ and Christianity - all that Jesus and the Apostles taught.We cannot just believe whatever we want to believe otherwise the chance is great that we fall away from Christ altogether without even knowing it. That is why God instituted the Church, to keep us from falling into error.
The writings of the NT judge a lot of false doctrine and spell out the impending doom for false teachers. God has given us enough to be able to judge what is false and the Church really needs to get its act together and start getting rid of false teachings and teachers.
Same here. I am constantly being challanged and altering my beliefs when I feel something is more truthful or closer to the truth. It is happening almost daily.
:D Rattle away. This is extremely important stuff to be discussing.
Bryan
Member
There are some members of otherwise heretical denominations that are actually true Christians. Why they continue to go to those churches is a mystery, but labelling those believers because of the name on the sign above the building they worship at is unfair.
As to the question:
I belong to Jesus, he is my lord. In that sense, I am a member of the THE church.
I also attend a local congregation fairly regularly, and attend bible study classes there from time ot time. BUT, I am not a 'member' of that church organization. I don't even think there is an official membership to tell the truth, it's never come up.
As to the question:
I belong to Jesus, he is my lord. In that sense, I am a member of the THE church.
I also attend a local congregation fairly regularly, and attend bible study classes there from time ot time. BUT, I am not a 'member' of that church organization. I don't even think there is an official membership to tell the truth, it's never come up.
C
Charlotte
Guest
Hi All,
Does any one on here actually know what the word Church means and where it came from? Do any know what the steeple on a Church represents?
If you do a research on it you might be surprised.
Jesus said I will build my Ekklesia, meaning "assembly" or "group" or "congregation"
Christ said he would build His group, He was not referring to a material structure like a cathedral, or a temple of wood and stone. If He did mean an ordinary building, where did He construct it? Was it built in Jerusalem by Himself and early Christians? Did He build it in Antioch where people were the first to be called Christians? Or did He build it somewhere else? If so, where is it today? Christ said His "Church would never see hades (a place of destruction). If He built a material structure and it is nowhere to be found today, this means that Christ's promise failed, if that is what He ment.
Christ's Ekklesia is not a building of wood or stone. It is not an organization of men with some type of authority handed down from father to son or leader to leader. The Ekklesia of Christ has only one authority that is Jesus Christ. The Ekklesia is also reckoned as His Body and He is the Head. The Ekklesia is His Body; it is not ours!! It is Christ who mastered hades, not ourselves.
Christ is the Ekklesia, none of us humans on earth represent His Ekklesia in a total sense. We need to understand that men or their organizations no matter how good they may be are not the true Ekklesia of God, most people who seek the true Ekklesia look to some geographical location on earth for its headquarters and to some humans as its head. They almost always seek for the Ekklesia in a horizontal direction. As a result they end up somewhere on earth, where men are ruling.
To find Christ's Church one must look vertically. One must look to the only place where there is perfection, absolute love, consistency, continuity, and where complete authority rest. That place is where Jesus is at this time, in the heavens. True, there are frail, human members of that Ekklesia here on earth, but the Head has not given His authority to any human members for them to have spiritual power over members of His Body.
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". 1 Tim. 2:5
Charlotte
Does any one on here actually know what the word Church means and where it came from? Do any know what the steeple on a Church represents?
If you do a research on it you might be surprised.
Jesus said I will build my Ekklesia, meaning "assembly" or "group" or "congregation"
Christ said he would build His group, He was not referring to a material structure like a cathedral, or a temple of wood and stone. If He did mean an ordinary building, where did He construct it? Was it built in Jerusalem by Himself and early Christians? Did He build it in Antioch where people were the first to be called Christians? Or did He build it somewhere else? If so, where is it today? Christ said His "Church would never see hades (a place of destruction). If He built a material structure and it is nowhere to be found today, this means that Christ's promise failed, if that is what He ment.
Christ's Ekklesia is not a building of wood or stone. It is not an organization of men with some type of authority handed down from father to son or leader to leader. The Ekklesia of Christ has only one authority that is Jesus Christ. The Ekklesia is also reckoned as His Body and He is the Head. The Ekklesia is His Body; it is not ours!! It is Christ who mastered hades, not ourselves.
Christ is the Ekklesia, none of us humans on earth represent His Ekklesia in a total sense. We need to understand that men or their organizations no matter how good they may be are not the true Ekklesia of God, most people who seek the true Ekklesia look to some geographical location on earth for its headquarters and to some humans as its head. They almost always seek for the Ekklesia in a horizontal direction. As a result they end up somewhere on earth, where men are ruling.
To find Christ's Church one must look vertically. One must look to the only place where there is perfection, absolute love, consistency, continuity, and where complete authority rest. That place is where Jesus is at this time, in the heavens. True, there are frail, human members of that Ekklesia here on earth, but the Head has not given His authority to any human members for them to have spiritual power over members of His Body.
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". 1 Tim. 2:5
Charlotte
H
Henry
Guest
The church is simply the body of beleivers how have heard the gospel, and have been marked in the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption.
The church is the body of Jesus to which he is the head.
Anyone who has placed their faith in the truth is a member of the church.
Heretics are those who say they are members of the church yet teach things which are not those things Jesus taught.
And to be sure this was not over looked by Jesus, nor the apostles and certainly not the early church fathers.
Those today who do not feel it is important to understand the essentials and know the foudation truths, and to agree on them are foolishy thinking.
The bible teaches that we are to be unified, butnot in compromise, rather we are united in the knowledge of the Son of God.
The truth is that not enough people are willing to call heresy for what it is, and even so they have compromised the essentials, for the sake a false unity, that is based on getting along at the cotst of the gospel and not the knowledge of the Son of God.
In the end days there will more and more who do not put up with truth and prefere heresy instead, these while they claim to be christians are truely the enemy of the body.
The church is the body of Jesus to which he is the head.
Anyone who has placed their faith in the truth is a member of the church.
Heretics are those who say they are members of the church yet teach things which are not those things Jesus taught.
And to be sure this was not over looked by Jesus, nor the apostles and certainly not the early church fathers.
Those today who do not feel it is important to understand the essentials and know the foudation truths, and to agree on them are foolishy thinking.
The bible teaches that we are to be unified, butnot in compromise, rather we are united in the knowledge of the Son of God.
The truth is that not enough people are willing to call heresy for what it is, and even so they have compromised the essentials, for the sake a false unity, that is based on getting along at the cotst of the gospel and not the knowledge of the Son of God.
In the end days there will more and more who do not put up with truth and prefere heresy instead, these while they claim to be christians are truely the enemy of the body.