Vaccine
Member
I see they've made it more effective at targeting cancer, but going through it hasn't gotten any better. I'm glad it worked and you're able to hang around here!
I hope it works out for their daughter.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Do You Have The Right ?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
I see they've made it more effective at targeting cancer, but going through it hasn't gotten any better. I'm glad it worked and you're able to hang around here!
I hope it works out for their daughter.
K
kevinmaynard
Guest
Really what alternative treatment do the Amish have? I have met Amish. They drive buggies for crying out loud. Let's not pretend they aren't going to some Dr that practices medicine from the horse and buggy area. Do you know the cancer survival rate from back then?
turnorburn
Member
Allow the government/any government to dictate how you shall run the family unit you've just signed off on freedom of choice.. dictating how you will/shall live equals dictatorship... Doesn't it?
tob
tob
K
kevinmaynard
Guest
So you're pro choice?
You just gave every pro choice argument I have ever heard. Have you read Roe v Wade because that is what it says.
That the government has no right to dictate or investigate the family unit or dictate how it decides life and death.
If a married couple have 3 kids and don't want more, butt she got pregnant, and they decide to abort it is nobody else's business.
I argue the pro life vision. Remember Terri Shiavo. I don't think they should not have been allowed to pull the plug.
I am for limiting abortion.
I am for government getting involved in the family unit.
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turnorburn
Member
Abortion is murder if you commit murder you've broken one of Gods commandments people break Gods commandments every day. God could if he willed put you to death where you stand for comiting murder but he doesn't we have freedom of choice..
tob
tob
K
kevinmaynard
Guest
Ok I guess I didn't see you as the pro choice type.
Lewis
Member
If it were your child and you were Amish' what would you do ? I don't live far from Amish country in Lancaster PA, and sometimes they come down to the city to sell food and even cooked food on vending food truck's yes some of them drive motorized vehicles. So some of them will let modern medicine help them. I remember seeing on TV about a Amish couple' and the husband was schizo' and the Amish medicen did not work' so doctors talked them into medication for it. The medicine worked until he stopped taking it' and he became very sick again. But this time he killed his wife' he beat her to death he crushed her face and head in. They couldn't tell who she was at first. So modern medication can help them too.
Lewis
Member
Faith-Healing Parents Given Jail Sentence
Madeline Kara Neumann, of Weston, Wis., is shown working on chalk art last summer during downtown Wausau's Chalk Fest. Neumann died Sunday, March 23, 2008, after her parents prayed for healing rather than getting medical help for a treatable form of diabetes.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/faith-healing-parents-given-jail-sentence/
A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seeking medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced Tuesday to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death.
Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for second-degree homicide in the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes.
Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard told the Neumanns they were "very good people, raising their family who made a bad decision, a reckless decision."
"God probably works through other people," he told the parents, "some of them doctors."
The case was believed to be the first of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.
Prosecutors contended the Neumanns recklessly killed their youngest of four children by ignoring obvious symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk. They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but relied totally on prayer for healing. The girl, known as Kara, died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone finally called the emergency dispatcher after she stopped breathing.
"We are here today because to some, you made Kara a martyr to your faith," Howard told the parents.
In testimony at trial and videotaped interviews with police, the parents said they believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die as they prayed for her and summoned others to do the same. A friend who was at the family's rural Weston home called the emergency dispatcher after the girl stopped breathing.
During the sentencing hearing, Leilani Neumann, 41, told the judge her family is loving and forgiving and has wrongly been portrayed as religious zealots.
"I do not regret trusting truly in the Lord for my daughter's health," she said. "Did we know she had a fatal illness? No. Did we act to the best of our knowledge? Yes."
Dale Neumann, 47, read from the Bible and told the judge that he loved his daughter.
"I am guilty of trusting my Lord's wisdom completely. ... Guilty of asking for heavenly intervention. Guilty of following Jesus Christ when the whole world does not understand. Guilty of obeying my God," he said.
The Neumanns held each other as Howard sentenced them, a Bible on the table nearby and their three teenage children sitting behind them in the front row of the courtroom.
Prosecutors had asked for a three-year suspended prison sentence and 10 years probation. Defense attorneys had sought four years probation.
The judge ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for six years so the parents can "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this." One parent would serve the term in March and the other in September. Howard stayed the jail sentences while the couple's convictions are appealed.
As part of their probation, the parents must allow a public health nurse to examine their two underage children at least once every three months and must immediately take their children to a doctor for any serious injuries.
Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson said justice was served by the sentences, but he was disappointed the parents never said they were sorry for what happened.
"They allowed Kara to die because they got themselves too caught up in the misguided belief that they were being tested by God," the prosecutor said.
Dale Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, told reporters the couple continues to trust in God.
"We live by faith," he said after the sentencing. "We are completely content with what the Lord has allowed to come down, but he is not done yet."
Madeline Kara Neumann, of Weston, Wis., is shown working on chalk art last summer during downtown Wausau's Chalk Fest. Neumann died Sunday, March 23, 2008, after her parents prayed for healing rather than getting medical help for a treatable form of diabetes.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/faith-healing-parents-given-jail-sentence/
A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seeking medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced Tuesday to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death.
Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for second-degree homicide in the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes.
Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard told the Neumanns they were "very good people, raising their family who made a bad decision, a reckless decision."
"God probably works through other people," he told the parents, "some of them doctors."
The case was believed to be the first of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.
Prosecutors contended the Neumanns recklessly killed their youngest of four children by ignoring obvious symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk. They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but relied totally on prayer for healing. The girl, known as Kara, died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone finally called the emergency dispatcher after she stopped breathing.
"We are here today because to some, you made Kara a martyr to your faith," Howard told the parents.
In testimony at trial and videotaped interviews with police, the parents said they believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die as they prayed for her and summoned others to do the same. A friend who was at the family's rural Weston home called the emergency dispatcher after the girl stopped breathing.
During the sentencing hearing, Leilani Neumann, 41, told the judge her family is loving and forgiving and has wrongly been portrayed as religious zealots.
"I do not regret trusting truly in the Lord for my daughter's health," she said. "Did we know she had a fatal illness? No. Did we act to the best of our knowledge? Yes."
Dale Neumann, 47, read from the Bible and told the judge that he loved his daughter.
"I am guilty of trusting my Lord's wisdom completely. ... Guilty of asking for heavenly intervention. Guilty of following Jesus Christ when the whole world does not understand. Guilty of obeying my God," he said.
The Neumanns held each other as Howard sentenced them, a Bible on the table nearby and their three teenage children sitting behind them in the front row of the courtroom.
Prosecutors had asked for a three-year suspended prison sentence and 10 years probation. Defense attorneys had sought four years probation.
The judge ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for six years so the parents can "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this." One parent would serve the term in March and the other in September. Howard stayed the jail sentences while the couple's convictions are appealed.
As part of their probation, the parents must allow a public health nurse to examine their two underage children at least once every three months and must immediately take their children to a doctor for any serious injuries.
Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson said justice was served by the sentences, but he was disappointed the parents never said they were sorry for what happened.
"They allowed Kara to die because they got themselves too caught up in the misguided belief that they were being tested by God," the prosecutor said.
Dale Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, told reporters the couple continues to trust in God.
"We live by faith," he said after the sentencing. "We are completely content with what the Lord has allowed to come down, but he is not done yet."
Had the couples chose to abort the government would have supported their 'choice' ... It is government control. A family trusting in God gets negative press lets show the world how bad and disgusting these Christians are.... How awful they 'prayed' their child to death any thing to draw attention away from the thousands a day who are aborted....
Personally i would/and did get medical help for my child. I believe the parents are wrong in not seeking medical help.
Personally i would/and did get medical help for my child. I believe the parents are wrong in not seeking medical help.
jasoncran
Member
I agree but where these parents went is that they choose only that prayer route.yes these days the feds would have "helped" them end their childs life in the mothers womb. or it was a teen the same would happen.
K
kevinmaynard
Guest
It reminds me of a joke.
A woman is driving in a rain storm when her car is overtake by a flash flood. The water is slowly rising and she is stuck. She prays to God for help.
A big truck pulls up and the driver offers to help. She refuses and says God will deliver me. The water continues to rise, and she continues to pray.
A boat then floats by. They offer to help. She refuses and says God will deliver me. The water continues to rise and she continues to pray.
Now she is stranded on the roof and she is surrounded by rushing water. A helicopter rescue team is has spotted her and offers help. She refuses and says God will deliver me.
The water overtakes the roof and she drowns. When she meets God she asks why did you let me die? I prayed with all my heart and had faith. God responded I sent you a truck, a boat, and a helicopter. What were you expecting?
A woman is driving in a rain storm when her car is overtake by a flash flood. The water is slowly rising and she is stuck. She prays to God for help.
A big truck pulls up and the driver offers to help. She refuses and says God will deliver me. The water continues to rise, and she continues to pray.
A boat then floats by. They offer to help. She refuses and says God will deliver me. The water continues to rise and she continues to pray.
Now she is stranded on the roof and she is surrounded by rushing water. A helicopter rescue team is has spotted her and offers help. She refuses and says God will deliver me.
The water overtakes the roof and she drowns. When she meets God she asks why did you let me die? I prayed with all my heart and had faith. God responded I sent you a truck, a boat, and a helicopter. What were you expecting?
Vaccine
Member
In the case of the girl dying from diabetes, I agre with the court. If a kid is sick, its a clear case of neglect to not take them to the ER. That's just tragic a girl died of such a treatable disease like diabetes.
Geez, at least the amish family went to the hospitals and even tried chemo. I still think the Amish family is within their rights to seek a holistic therapy. Honestly, if I were them I would go with both the chemo and holistic therapy to have the best chance of surviving.
My wife was a social worker (in Ohio) before we had kids. Too often the courts are quick to step into a case where the girl has leukemia, but slow to act in clear cases of abuse. Not too far from medina was what the locals called the Kenmore 6. A terrible case of child abuse of 6 kids where the system knew of some of the abuse but didn't intervene for the kids. Only when they escaped from the home, were spotted by a mailman, and it made the news did anything happen.
Geez, at least the amish family went to the hospitals and even tried chemo. I still think the Amish family is within their rights to seek a holistic therapy. Honestly, if I were them I would go with both the chemo and holistic therapy to have the best chance of surviving.
My wife was a social worker (in Ohio) before we had kids. Too often the courts are quick to step into a case where the girl has leukemia, but slow to act in clear cases of abuse. Not too far from medina was what the locals called the Kenmore 6. A terrible case of child abuse of 6 kids where the system knew of some of the abuse but didn't intervene for the kids. Only when they escaped from the home, were spotted by a mailman, and it made the news did anything happen.
T
Tristan
Guest
Slippery slope is not a valid argument.
In the case of life or death, you shouldn't be able to refuse medical attention for your child. It should be mandatory because the child is not in a place where they can make an independent, informed decision. If it's something that poses a danger to others in society, it should be mandatory to get medical attention. I welcome "government control" because it sure beats private/corporate control. At least the government is accountable to us.
jasoncran
Member
now its not. you aren't an American. you are a European. the us government takes money from us and doesn't spend it where it should.
really, i work for the government i have been told that even our posted budget on the website may not be in truth! you are from where? Canada?? so theres plenty rabbit trails on adult choices that should be banned given risks to others.drinking being one of them.
its not a slippery slope. the girl has cancer in kidney, chest and neck , said friend whom i mentioned had that level of cancer in her body and choose death. she knew.
if you knew that were young and had a 60% of death from treatment and six months to live would you take it? that is the odds. i have little faith at times the government above the local level(even then) doesn't answer to us. did we vote for being spied on? did we vote for being hunted by the irs for being consertive? no, no.
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