Do You Have The Right ?

[jasoncran]

i can go on and on with that.

about that?

* The Amish believe all life is given and taken by God and their beliefs tell them to accept God's will as it is.
* The Amish prefer to give birth at home and to die at home.
* The elderly believe in rationing care near the end of life because they do not want to waste the community's/church's money.
* Disability is generally feared more than death. If treatment is refused by the Amish patient, be sure to thoroughly educate him/her if disability from his/her illness is a potential possibility.
* Amish couples are usually not deterred from having more children when they have a child with a heredity defect. A child with disabilities is referred to as a special child and is accepted as God's will.
* The Amish do not forbid the use of modern medical care. If deemed necessary, they can have surgical procedures, dental work, anesthesia and blood transfusions.
* Organ transplants are permitted with the exception of heart transplants (the heart is the soul of the body).
* They usually do not have health insurance as it is a "worldly product" and may show a lack of faith in God.
* Most Amish need to have church (bishop, community) permission to be hospitalized, as it is the community who will come together to help pay the costs.
* The Amish generally do not like to be seen by a health care provider who is in the "learning process". The Amish believe if they are going to pay out-of-pocket for their care, they want to be seen by an experienced practicing provider.
* Speak to both the husband and wife regarding health care decisions; they consider themselves as partners in family life.

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100628052604AAOR8co
now then obamacare has exemption for these already if no then Obama is forcing them to buy healthcare. theres ya slippery slope. people do die from lack of healthcare so they say.

 

[Tristan]

now its not. you aren't an American. you are a European. the us government takes money from us and doesn't spend it where it should.

really, i work for the government i have been told that even our posted budget on the website may not be in truth! you are from where? Canada?? so theres plenty rabbit trails on adult choices that should be banned given risks to others.drinking being one of them.

its not a slippery slope. the girl has cancer in kidney, chest and neck , said friend whom i mentioned had that level of cancer in her body and choose death. she knew.

if you knew that were young and had a 60% of death from treatment and six months to live would you take it? that is the odds. i have little faith at times the government above the local level(even then) doesn't answer to us. did we vote for being spied on? did we vote for being hunted by the irs for being consertive? no, no.

First, I'm CANADIAN! This has to be the second or third time someone has said I'm from somewhere else.

A slippery slope argument "asks for a prohibition or curtailment on something based on a cascading series of undesired results." Source You can't argue about "how far will the government go." It's a logical fallacy because it ignores mitigating factors.

This is the flaw with democracy. We have to elect one of the options that are put in front of us, even if they're all bad. No, I don't think the government should be infringing on my rights, but I'd rather they do it than a corporation who represents nothing but its own interests. The thing about a government is that regardless of who is in charge, they still represent my interests to some extent. A corporation cares about nothing but itself.

 

[jasoncran]

AP

AKRON, OH -- An Amish girl with leukemia spent time at a natural cancer treatment center in Central America after she left home with her parents in Ohio to avoid being forced to resume chemotherapy treatments, the girl's grandfather said.



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Sarah Hershberger, who recently turned 11, her parents and the couple's baby daughter now are in hiding in the United States, Isaac Keim said.

The family left the small Amish community where they live in rural northeast Ohio just days before a state appeals court appointed a guardian in October to take over medical decisions for the Sarah, said Keim, who told the Akron Beacon Journal that he accompanied them to the unnamed clinic.

The Hershbergers have been fighting doctors at Akron's Children's Hospital in court for months after the parents decided to halt the treatments because they were making Sarah sick.

Doctors say her leukemia is treatable, but say she will die within a year without chemotherapy. The hospital sought to force treatment after the family opted to try natural medicines, such as herbs and vitamins.

The family has appealed the court decision that gave an attorney who's also a registered nurse limited guardianship over Sarah. They don't plan on returning until the ruling is reversed.

"What kind of gift would that be, if we could get this resolved and they can come back home without a fear of being in contempt of court or having their child snatched away," Keim said. "We're praying every day that this thing can be resolved and get their lives back together."

The Hershberger's five other children are staying with community members near their farm outside the village of Spencer in Medina County, about 35 miles southwest of Cleveland.

Keim said that CT scans and blood tests show that the natural treatments are working. He said she is cancer-free.

"She's a vibrant, healthy girl," Keim said.

The Amish are deeply religious and shun many facets of modern life, but they don't reject modern medicine.

Andy Hershberger said this past summer that the family agreed to begin two years of chemotherapy for Sarah last spring but stopped treatment in June because it was making her extremely sick.

Officials at Akron's Children's Hospital have said they are morally and legally obligated to make sure the girl receives proper care. They said the girl's illness, lymphoblastic lymphoma, is an aggressive form of non-Hodgkin lymphoma, but there is a high survival rate with treatment.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=9343715

 

[jasoncran]

First, I'm CANADIAN! This has to be the second or third time someone has said I'm from somewhere else.

A slippery slope argument "asks for a prohibition or curtailment on something based on a cascading series of undesired results." Source You can't argue about "how far will the government go." It's a logical fallacy because it ignores mitigating factors.

This is the flaw with democracy. We have to elect one of the options that are put in front of us, even if they're all bad. No, I don't think the government should be infringing on my rights, but I'd rather they do it than a corporation who represents nothing but its own interests. The thing about a government is that regardless of who is in charge, they still represent my interests to some extent. A corporation cares about nothing but itself.

really?so you have rights because of what?

you cant own a firearm without breaking the law in your country. we americans can take what is rightfully ours and that was the intent of the second amendment.

next, the us government has stolen funds from the people in that there is no money is social security but an i o u. so that means if i die today my wife gets what? squat if i don't have anything outside the federal goverments programs, and i do. of course the pensions can be declared null and void and theres not much i could do as the feds don't answer to anyone higher then themselves. case in point the bonus army

how long did it take and i wonder how many died before they got that promise?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

if it one thing i have learned is not to believe anything fully from the feds all the time.

 

[Tristan]

really?so you have rights because of what?

you cant own a firearm without breaking the law in your country. we americans can take what is rightfully ours and that was the intent of the second amendment.

next, the us government has stolen funds from the people in that there is no money is social security but an i o u. so that means if i die today my wife gets what? squat if i don't have anything outside the federal goverments programs, and i do. of course the pensions can be declared null and void and theres not much i could do as the feds don't answer to anyone higher then themselves. case in point the bonus army

how long did it take and i wonder how many died before they got that promise?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

if it one thing i have learned is not to believe anything fully from the feds all the time.

I have rights because we have a constitution that was ratified in 1982. The government is responsible for enforcing those rights so that others don't violate them. It is not my responsibility to impose myself on others.

Yes, I can go get a license (after a background check) and purchase a firearm. It just has to be locked up when it isn't being used and you have to take a safety course...along with other considerations. We regulate our guns. Our level of gun murder is about 1/5th of the US and we own better than 1/3 of the firearms per capita. Sure there are better countries than us, but we're not making that comparison right now. Here are some stats and sources:

Canada
30.8 firearms per 100 people
.51 = homicide rate by firearm per 100000 people

United States
88.8 firearms per 100 people
2.97 = homicide rate by firearm per 100000 people

http://firearmslaw.ca/gun-law-resources/licensing-process/
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

How do you define what's rightfully yours?

Yes, governments deal with corruption. I'm not American so I won't speak to what happens down there with too much. What I do know is that your government isn't the issue. Take down the corporations and you'll find the government suddenly becomes very reasonable. Get rid of the gun lobby, the big oil lobby, the Israeli lobby, and start prosecuting your banks and letting them fail. Follow the money trail.

The government is there to protect you, so hold it accountable!

 

[jasoncran]

with voting? and uh now i don't buy that. you forget that more Canadians die with knives better ban them and register with them. and im more likely to die from a car wreck then any gun.
and its not even on the top five for a gun.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
yeah right, you said take down the corps without guns. lol that will never happen. oil lobby? yeah we can.

efficitive immediately all oil trade with Canada THE NUMBER ONE SUPPLIER OF OIL TO THE UNITED STATES, SHALL CEASE. LETS see how long the canuks like that.
http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

didn't know that Canada is the largest importer of oil.


and well im pro isreal, while i prefer that we don't over do that is one of the only democracy in the middle east that is actually stable that we should support. we should back isreal up when she needs it, not lead the way but allow her to act first then if needed we go into help. worked with your country and brititan.

 

[jasoncran]

i prefer if possible to let isreal be isreal and don't think Canada also bends our government to her liking. i know better.

 

[jasoncran]

i don't need a license to buy any gun that isn't a pistol, i can get a pistol without any check. simple call a friend, well cousin. say tim, got any guns ya can sell me? sure. what you want. i have 9mm beretta, .45 , i have even a few autos, want them? no i will take that .45

he wouldn't sell me any auto but i can legally get any pistol without going to gun shop or store not see jail. i mention auto because he can sell them and buy them legally in the us and has ammo too for them.

 

[Tristan]

with voting? and uh now i don't buy that. you forget that more Canadians die with knives better ban them and register with them. and im more likely to die from a car wreck then any gun.
and its not even on the top five for a gun.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
yeah right, you said take down the corps without guns. lol that will never happen. oil lobby? yeah we can.

efficitive immediately all oil trade with Canada THE NUMBER ONE SUPPLIER OF OIL TO THE UNITED STATES, SHALL CEASE. LETS see how long the canuks like that.
http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

didn't know that Canada is the largest importer of oil.


and well im pro isreal, while i prefer that we don't over do that is one of the only democracy in the middle east that is actually stable that we should support. we should back isreal up when she needs it, not lead the way but allow her to act first then if needed we go into help. worked with your country and brititan.

Yes, it was passed democratically...but the whole country didn't vote on it.

The difference between a gun and a knife is that a gun is INTENDED to kill, whereas a knife is a very useful tool for other purposes. It's also more likely you'll survive an encounter with a knife wielding enemy than a gun wielding one. There are also a lot more knives than guns. If there were that many guns, we'd have a catastrophically high death rate.

You have no power with your gun. You can't take on an organized army that has armour, artillery, and aircraft. Violent overthrowing of the government can't happen anymore.

Yes, we are a large oil supplier and there is great contention here about that. My province as of right now has denied a pipeline project that would transport oil to the ports on the west coast. We're not rolling over and playing dead. The provinces hold a lot of power compared to states in the US. They're raping the province of Alberta with their fracking. It's unacceptable and unlike down in the US, we have long memories...and when election time comes, our leader will be leaving. Importing oil itself isn't the problem, it's the environmental cost that is absurd.

I'd rather not get into contention about Israel...but I do not support how they bully other countries in the middle east. I will support their right to be a sovereign nation, but I will not support them if they antagonize others.

 

[Tristan]

i don't need a license to buy any gun that isn't a pistol, i can get a pistol without any check. simple call a friend, well cousin. say tim, got any guns ya can sell me? sure. what you want. i have 9mm beretta, .45 , i have even a few autos, want them? no i will take that .45

he wouldn't sell me any auto but i can legally get any pistol without going to gun shop or store not see jail. i mention auto because he can sell them and buy them legally in the us and has ammo too for them.

Precisely. Lax gun regulations will lead to an increase in gun crime. They are directly correlated.

 

[jasoncran]

bully? they bully? really? how does a tiny nation like that is hated around them and out number them exactly bullying?

prisoners kill with shanks. sometimes shanks are made from forks. plastic ones at that. its not the gun its the person. a knife can kill and the knives that are used many not be the ones i have trained with in some of the knife training i have had.

really? so when and if it happened that my government starts going south and just starts imprisoning people just give up? really? many of the gun owners are vets and in the black market anything is sale for the right price. even slaves. so its not hard to get a gun and make it fully auto and or get bombs or rockets.im a soldiers and its one thing i have learned is that just because haji has let arms then me doesn't mean that i wont die or that i can be taken down inside a base with an armed team or a lot. seen them attack a base and hold that area for some time. we have been lucky but they aren't that stupid nor weak.

you also forget that the army has guns, who is to say that it wont turn on the government? i know a lot of pro gun soldiers who would refuse to tyrannise the people.

 

[jasoncran]

Precisely. Lax gun regulations will lead to an increase in gun crime. They are directly correlated.

so banning things make its stop? really
ban sex then? ban drugs then. see how that works
the us government is lax on punishment. for instance. i know a victim of crime. he was 13 and was raped by a girl and she got only 6 months for that act. you tell me that laws and that sentence will reduce crime? so by owning something that makes me a criminal? really? soldiers in uniform don't steal from the government and take things with the government guns or helicopters? seen an attempt by that when i was at polk.

 

[Tristan]

bully? they bully? really? how does a tiny nation like that is hated around them and out number them exactly bullying?

prisoners kill with shanks. sometimes shanks are made from forks. plastic ones at that. its not the gun its the person. a knife can kill and the knives that are used many not be the ones i have trained with in some of the knife training i have had.

really? so when and if it happened that my government starts going south and just starts imprisoning people just give up? really? many of the gun owners are vets and in the black market anything is sale for the right price. even slaves. so its not hard to get a gun and make it fully auto and or get bombs or rockets.im a soldiers and its one thing i have learned is that just because haji has let arms then me doesn't mean that i wont die or that i can be taken down inside a base with an armed team or a lot. seen them attack a base and hold that area for some time. we have been lucky but they aren't that stupid nor weak.

you also forget that the army has guns, who is to say that it wont turn on the government? i know a lot of pro gun soldiers who would refuse to tyrannise the people.

You have nuclear weapons and no other country in the middle east does. You use that and the weight of the US support to get what you want. Oh and what about the Palestinians? I'm not at all impressed by the Israeli attitude toward them. I also like to read Israeli news (like Haaretz) because it's the most fair in its critique.

You can kill someone with your bare hands. Should be ban hands? It's another slippery slope argument. Guns are far more dangerous that knives. No, don't ban them, but regulate them! In Canada we have less gun crime because of regulations (and when was the last time someone killed a cop? It doesn't happen much at all.)

Dream on. You'll be crushed by your own military.

I'm in favour of appropriate punishments for criminals, but more important is rehabilitation if possible at some point.

 

[jasoncran]

really. so then how did that work for the armed people of Egypt? whom took that nation? the people albeit the army helped them.

no tis not because they had defectors. so where do criminals get guns then if they cant them legally?show me how a felon gets them or does Canada physically stop any gun sale that is illegal can you sell your gun and it be illegal and its done and the government never knows? i bet that it happens.

its not possible to be that authotarian and not go south and control people. in America we like to push laws and people will do that. it is what it is. your country doesn't do that, but there is nothing that can stop me from selling a gun to you if you want it. plain and simple. a crime cant be stopped unless reported.

we loose more soldiers to suicide and accidents and with corrections sucide is high as well. but your country man more die in car wrecks then i have ever seen.

 

[Tristan]

really. so then how did that work for the armed people of Egypt? whom took that nation? the people albeit the army helped them.

no tis not because they had defectors. so where do criminals get guns then if they cant them legally?show me how a felon gets them or does Canada physically stop any gun sale that is illegal can you sell your gun and it be illegal and its done and the government never knows? i bet that it happens.

its not possible to be that authotarian and not go south and control people. in America we like to push laws and people will do that. it is what it is. your country doesn't do that, but there is nothing that can stop me from selling a gun to you if you want it. plain and simple. a crime cant be stopped unless reported.

we loose more soldiers to suicide and accidents and with corrections sucide is high as well. but your country man more die in car wrecks then i have ever seen.

Egypt is not nearly as powerful as the US. Even then, do you think a military dictatorship is the right way to go?

Do you stop murderers from murdering by having a law against it? No, so we shouldn't have murder laws. It's the exact same logic. The stats don't lie. We have better regulations, and we have lower gun crime. There's a direct correlation, especially since our culture is pretty close to American culture.

You can sell me a gun, sure, but it's illegal, and I won't buy it...unless you register it and we do the paperwork. Right now I don't want a gun though. Maybe one day I'll need one, but I pray those times come after me.

I'm not saying gun control is the number one issue. It's a big issue, and there are other ones that need solving as well. Priority one is never gun control for me.

 

[turnorburn]

Who said Israel is a bully have you seen Israel lately or are you seeing what the media wants you to see.. that little red blip is Israel those in green are its enemies..

http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html

tob

 

[jasoncran]

who said that, it would be to restore what the government should be. i wont lead to the water but tell your. read what the founders said about the second amendment.

they gave us that right so that we could keep the government in check, not to form miliitias only which are illegal now. im not for that but the early armies were nothing but men who answered the call.

Hamilton in federalist paper #29

But though the scheme of disciplining the whole nation must be abandoned as mischievous or impracticable; yet it is a matter of the utmost importance that a well-digested plan should, as soon as possible, be adopted for the proper establishment of the militia. The attention of the government ought particularly to be directed to the formation of a select corps of moderate extent, upon such principles as will really fit them for service in case of need. By thus circumscribing the plan, it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defense of the State shall require it. This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.”

theres a lot more then just that in there but that is my point. he never said that we shouldn't have guns nor rights to own them.

now then Jefferson on that.

http://hematite.com/dragon/jefferson2nd.html

note what he says about the civil rights. im not saying that the joe scmoo should be an soldier just because he has gun, but that he can if he need to do just that and take what was supposed to be by the people and for the people.

 

[Tristan]

Who said Israel is a bully have you seen Israel lately or are you seeing what the media wants you to see.. that little red blip is Israel those in green are its enemies..

http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html

tob

Why are they all enemies? Surely someone has to be antagonized to be an enemy. Also...your country can be miniature but the moment you have nuclear weapons, you become exceptionally dangerous. Don't pretend Israel is small and weak.

 

[Tristan]

who said that, it would be to restore what the government should be. i wont lead to the water but tell your. read what the founders said about the second amendment.

they gave us that right so that we could keep the government in check, not to form miliitias only which are illegal now. im not for that but the early armies were nothing but men who answered the call.

Hamilton in federalist paper #29

theres a lot more then just that in there but that is my point. he never said that we shouldn't have guns nor rights to own them.

now then Jefferson on that.

http://hematite.com/dragon/jefferson2nd.html

note what he says about the civil rights. im not saying that the joe scmoo should be an soldier just because he has gun, but that he can if he need to do just that and take what was supposed to be by the people and for the people.

Please stop and actually read for a moment. I'm not saying you can't own a gun. I'm not saying they should be banned. I'm saying they should be regulated and monitored. I'm not going to argue about the American constitution because I just don't care enough.

 

[turnorburn]

In the original God gave Abraham a land flowing with milk and honey and he threw in some other promises as well..

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Map with land of Israel with borders in red below representing the Royal Land Grant that God gave to Israel through the Abraham Covenant compared to what Israel actually has today in yellow on the map above it.

I wonder what would happen if the Jewish people suddenly woke up and realized they are being cheated out of all the land God gave Israel in the Abraham land covenant instead of the little sliver of land they are now living on, which is only a fraction of what had been promised to them? And even that, the arabs and nations of the world are trying to take the little fraction shown in yellow on the map, which is now Israel, little by little by waging terror war after war against the Jews and forcing a land for peace deal upon the Jews.

http://filesfromtoni.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-much-land-did-god-give-israel-in.html

tob