Do you have to be baptized to achieve salvation?

[reba]

It would depend on what parallel you were trying to draw and what lesson you were trying to teach. Peter's lesson was baptism saves you. That was the reason for the analogy, and he used the waters of the flood as a teaching tool. What do you think he was getting at?

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I disagree that was Peter's lesson... i believe it, this whole discussion, comes to the understanding the language.

I think it could be a help of understanding to grasp what baptism meant to those folks. The folks who first wrote the Greek and those who translated.

Classik, a fellow member talks a lot about football... his football is not my football his football is my soccer that is what i mean by understanding

I believe a Christian would want to be baptized. I dont believe... The Lord finds you on Friday evening... you have talked with the preacher and there is a Sunday morning baptismal service and you get run over by a stampeding heard of horses Saturday, your Blood bought salvation was not a done deal...I believe we should have some head knowledge of what baptism is, stands for, its value.

 

[handy]

Sorry Dora, my apologies. I mixed this up with Acts 21"17-26, where Paul was persuaded to do purification rites for some converts. My mistake. I shouldn't listen to my baseball game when I'm trying to answer questions.

I always respect and appreciate when one corrects oneself!!!

(Me... I should stop posting when I'm supposed to be working....)

 

[Stan53]

Well Dee – it doesn’t matter what you and I believe – it matters what the word of God says and His word is clear – the promise of salvation is given to the one who believes and is baptized – the one who disbelieves is condemned already whether baptized or not baptized.

If you have never been baptized I would say to you…

And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
​

If you read the actual account in Acts 9:17-19, again you will see someone who receives the Holy Spirit BEFORE he is baptized in water. Another indication water baptism is ONLY a symbolic gesture, although an obedient one, and does NOT accomplish salvation. Obviously Paul was saved before Ananias laid hands on him for healing and the Holy Spirit.
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.†18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

 

[Webb]

D4Christ--The reason Mk.16:16 doesn't say something like "he that believeth not and is not baptized shall be damned" is because (as has been stated often before) disbelief is all it takes to be damned. Please read John 3:18.

May I ask, what translation are you using?

 

[Stan53]

I always respect and appreciate when one corrects oneself!!!

(Me... I should stop posting when I'm supposed to be working....)

:biglol

Hey well when you're wrong, you're wrong. It's not the first time and won't be the last time!

 

[Stan53]

D4Christ--The reason Mk.16:16 doesn't say something like "he that believeth not and is not baptized shall be damned" is because (as has been stated often before) disbelief is all it takes to be damned. Please read John 3:18.

May I ask, what translation are you using?

Yes Webb, but given the import some people assign to this, it should say, if it WAS necessary, "He that believes and is NOT baptized, is NOT saved."
That would be consistant with how scripture does handle important issues, don't you think?

 

[Stan53]

I disagree that was Peter's lesson... i believe it, this whole discussion, comes to the understanding the language.

I think it could be a help of understanding to grasp what baptism meant to those folks. The folks who first wrote the Greek and those who translated.

Classik, a fellow member talks a lot about football... his football is not my football his football is my soccer that is what i mean by understanding

I believe a Christian would want to be baptized. I dont believe... The Lord finds you on Friday evening... you have talked with the preacher and there is a Sunday morning baptismal service and you get run over by a stampeding heard of horses Saturday, your Blood bought salvation was not a done deal...I believe we should have some head knowledge of what baptism is, stands for, its value.

 

[Webb]

Stan53---post 586---You said: "--it should say--". Such is your problem, telling us what God "should say". I'm concerned with what God DID say, not what mere humans think He "should say".

BTH--are you ready for the one-on-one yet?

 

[zeke]

Again you mislead. What I said was it is not essential to salvation. Christ saves ONLY. You understanding of the scripture here is flawed. Probably explains why you can't provide more scripture that supports your assertion.

No misleading just the facts - what God ordains and commands becomes essential the moment He ordains and commands and it is clear that baptism in water comes from the mind of God. The command to be baptized in water - to be baptized into Christ Jesus is not optional. If this contradicts your sectarian dogma (and it does) then let go of your dogma and let God be true...

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar...​

 

[Stan53]

Stan53---post 586---You said: "--it should say--". Such is your problem, telling us what God "should say". I'm concerned with what God DID say, not what mere humans think He "should say".

BTH--are you ready for the one-on-one yet?

I was responding to your point of why it doesn't say what D4Christ presented. The point is if water baptism WAS that important, based on how scripture deals with important things overall, it would say that. Assuming it means something it doesn't say is not acceptable either.

What one-on-one would that be? Did I miss something?

 

[zeke]

If you read the actual account in Acts 9:17-19, again you will see someone who receives the Holy Spirit BEFORE he is baptized in water.

You remain confused Stan. If Paul's sins were 'washed away' before he submitted to baptism why did God's servant tell him to "Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord"? Your dogma makes no sense when viewed through what has been revealed. You need to re-think my friend.

 

[Stan53]

No misleading just the facts - what God ordains and commands becomes essential the moment He ordains and commands and it is clear that baptism in water comes from the mind of God. The command to be baptized in water - to be baptized into Christ Jesus is not optional. If this contradicts your sectarian dogma (and it does) then let go of your dogma and let God be true...

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar...
​

Yes, spoken like a person who can't support what they believe. I've refuted all your points and all you can do is continue to voice the same-old-same-old.
It's not a command and it is NOT supported in the rest of scripture. Despite your dismissive and condescending comments, you have NOT proved that God's Word conveys what you say it does. Nuff said!

 

[zeke]

The point is if water baptism WAS that important, based on how scripture deals with important things overall, it would say that.

Faulty logic Stan - the Bible does present baptism as important. Per Jesus Christ - the promise of salvation is made to the one who believes and is baptized - there is no such promise made to the one who believes and refuses to be baptized.

 

[zeke]

Yes, spoken like a person who can't support what they believe. I've refuted all your points and all you can do is continue to voice the same-old-same-old.
It's not a command and it is NOT supported in the rest of scripture. Despite your dismissive and condescending comments, you have NOT proved that God's Word conveys what you say it does. Nuff said!

You have refuted nothing my friend and you cannot support your dogma that contradicts God's word. Baptism is commanded and the NT does not know of an unbaptized believer. Why - because in every conversion noted under the NT all believers were baptized in water - baptized into Christ...

For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(Gal 3:27 NKJV)​

If by faith in Christ you have been baptized in water you are "in Christ". If you have not been baptized in water you are not in Christ. Easy concept Stan. How did you come to be "in Christ"? Think.

 

[Webb]

Stan53---it still remains you said: "it should have said". I shall repeat, I'm not interested in what you think the scripture "should have said" but what it said.

Are you telling me you don't know what the one-on-one is? You did most recently. Its the segment on this forum where 2 individuals take opposing positions on a subject. But you knew that, didn't you?

 

[Stan53]

You remain confused Stan. If Paul's sins were 'washed away' before he submitted to baptism why did God's servant tell him to "Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord"? Your dogma makes no sense when viewed through what has been revealed. You need to re-think my friend.

Not at all. You state that an unsaved person cannot receive the Holy Spirit and have to be water baptized to be saved, and yet you are given two examples of where they people receive the Holy Spirit PRIOR to water baptism and ignore them.
You just need to plain think about what you believe.

James 1:21; Humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

 

[Stan53]

Stan53---it still remains you said: "it should have said". I shall repeat, I'm not interested in what you think the scripture "should have said" but what it said.

Are you telling me you don't know what the one-on-one is? You did most recently. Its the segment on this forum where 2 individuals take opposing positions on a subject. But you knew that, didn't you?

Just as I'm not interested in what you say it says, but what it does. Works both ways you know, which I know you know.

I know what a one-on-one is, I'm asking you WHAT one-on-one? Did you ask me to participate in one, or did I ask you? I have a bad short term memory.

 

[Stan53]

You have refuted nothing my friend and you cannot support your dogma that contradicts God's word. Baptism is commanded and the NT does not know of an unbaptized believer. Why - because in every conversion noted under the NT all believers were baptized in water - baptized into Christ...

For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(Gal 3:27 NKJV)
​

If by faith in Christ you have been baptized in water you are "in Christ". If you have not been baptized in water you are not in Christ. Easy concept Stan. How did you come to be "in Christ"? Think.

Sorry I should have clarified...you're now on my ignore list.

 

[Webb]

Stan53--The record will show you are the one who said "It should say" on post 586.

Numerous times I have suggested a one-on-one with any faith only advocate.

 

[zeke]

I believe a Christian would want to be baptized. I dont believe... The Lord finds you on Friday evening... you have talked with the preacher and there is a Sunday morning baptismal service and you get run over by a stampeding heard of horses Saturday, your Blood bought salvation was not a done deal...I believe we should have some head knowledge of what baptism is, stands for, its value.

Using the same logic - if the Lord observes you on Friday evening after you have talked with the preacher and sees you are on the verge of coming to Christ but before you make that final decision you get run over by a stampeding heard of horses is your Blood bought salvation not a done deal?

Isn't it easier to believe that a long-suffering God who wants none to perish would allow ample time for the seeker to believe, repent and be baptized into Christ? This is what we see in the NT – there is no record of a believer being killed by stamping horses on the way to the baptistry – is there?

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. (1 Pet 3:9)​