D
ddubsolo85
Guest
ddub: Redemption of one's transgressions, and eternal life.
ddub: And who fits this qualification? Do you know of anyone besides Jesus?
God Bless!
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ddub: And who fits this qualification? Do you know of anyone besides Jesus?
God Bless!
R
Restin
Guest
Old but New....
A look at the words OLD & NEW
That puts old in the structure of time, wrath, and law.
"Behold, I am making all things new."
And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
-------"NEW", according to scripture, is not under time, wrath, and law,
with the exception of Jesus Christ.
------- Jesus Christ, He who knew no sin was made to be sin ('old')
to bring us to righteousness ('new'). 2 Cor 5:21
When God calls something 'New', so it IS
When God makes something/someone 'new', so it IS.
...... So it IS
A look at the words OLD & NEW
- OLD
-- of this creation -- Heb 9:11
-- sin and transgression -- Ro 5:20,
-- dead in transgressions, Col 2:13
-- letter kills -- 2 Cor 3:6
-- old things passed away, 2 Cor 5:17
-- heaven and earth pass away, Mat 24:35
-- becoming obsolete, Heb 8:13
-- growing old, Heb 8:13
-- ready to disappear Heb 8:13
-- ministry of condemnation, 2 Cor 3:9
That puts old in the structure of time, wrath, and law.
- NEW
-- not made with hands, not of this creation, Heb 9:11
-- of the spirit -- 2 Cor 3:6
-- gives life, 2 Cor 3:6
-- forgiveness Col 2:13
-- commandment, love -- John 13:34
-- light -- 1 John 2:8
-- covenant, Heb 9:15 & 2 Cor 3:6
-- ministry of righteousness, 2 Cor 3:9
-- righteousness and holiness of the truth, Eph 4:24
-- anyone in Christ, he is a new creature, 2 Cor 5:17
"Behold, I am making all things new."
And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
-------"NEW", according to scripture, is not under time, wrath, and law,
with the exception of Jesus Christ.
------- Jesus Christ, He who knew no sin was made to be sin ('old')
to bring us to righteousness ('new'). 2 Cor 5:21
When God calls something 'New', so it IS
When God makes something/someone 'new', so it IS.
...... So it IS
D
ddubsolo85
Guest
Restin: A look at the words OLD & NEW...
ddub: How does this help to explain us under the New Covenant? How does it explain that Gentiles can be under the New Covenant, or that anyone is now under the New Covenant?
None of these scriptures make that statement.
R
Restin
Guest
Foundation
The things of this creation die and wither away -- they all become old.
That which exists 'not of this creation' will exist in the life to come.
-- this is life everlasting, this is what God calls 'New'.
When God calls something "NEW" so it is.
Time, gender, race, or politics do not change this fundamental principal.
If you were building a house, you would need a good foundation.
1 Cor 3:12-15 says fire will test what you build on this foundation.
....R
Only that which is of 'this creation' comes 'under law'.ddubsolo85 said:Restin: A look at the words OLD & NEW...
ddub: How does this help to explain us under the New Covenant? How does it explain that Gentiles can be under the New Covenant, or that anyone is now under the New Covenant?
None of these scriptures make that statement.
The things of this creation die and wither away -- they all become old.
That which exists 'not of this creation' will exist in the life to come.
-- this is life everlasting, this is what God calls 'New'.
When God calls something "NEW" so it is.
Time, gender, race, or politics do not change this fundamental principal.
If you were building a house, you would need a good foundation.
1 Cor 3:12-15 says fire will test what you build on this foundation.
....R
D
ddubsolo85
Guest
Only that which is of 'this creation' comes 'under law'.
The things of this creation die and wither away -- they all become old.
That which exists 'not of this creation' will exist in the life to come.
-- this is life everlasting, this is what God calls 'New'.
ddub: I can't agree with you there Restin. First, God created both the Old and New Covenants. Second, the only thing "new" about the New Covenant is the change God made to the PEOPLE. There is no change to the substance of the covenant itself. The old had the law, the new will have that same law. The old had Jesus, the new will have that same Jesus. The difference in the two covenants is that instead of the Spirit of God and the written word, the recipients will have the Spirit of God with the law written upon their hearts and minds.
When God calls something "NEW" so it is.
Time, gender, race, or politics do not change this fundamental principal.
If you were building a house, you would need a good foundation.
1 Cor 3:12-15 says fire will test what you build on this foundation.
In this case, the foundation is Jesus. That doesn't change. The covenant itself does not change. The law itself does not change. The only change will be to the PEOPLE. They are what is new. The bible tells us that redemption came under the Old Covenant, but as we know, we must study the Word to show ourselves approved. However, under the New Covenant, the people will be given "upgraded" minds and hearts concerning the Word of God. It will be a part of their "DNA" (so to speak). That's why they will have no need to learn God's word, from the least to the greatest of them. It will be a part of who they are. Then they will spread the gospel to all nations.
God Bless!
R
Restin
Guest
According to His Purpose
Called according to His purpose
to those who are called according to His purpose.
This is where I have peace.
....R
Called according to His purpose
- Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us.
to those who are called according to His purpose.
This is where I have peace.
....R
J
Jay T
Guest
ddubsolo85 said:ddub: Redemption of one's transgressions, and eternal life.ay T; And what is salvation ?
[quote:9e558]Jay T: The Christian world has yet to understand what it is !!!
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people [from] their sins.
The Christian world teaches that God will save you [in] your sins......NOT !
The truth is....1 John3:9 "Whosoever is born of God [doth not] commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
[/quote:9e558]ddub: And who fits this qualification? Do you know of anyone besides Jesus?
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for [they are without fault] before the throne of God....."
"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:4,5...12).
D
ddubsolo85
Guest
Called according to His purpose
Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us.
Jesus Christ is the New Covenant as well as the redemption
to those who are called according to His purpose.
This is where I have peace.
ddub: But the bible says that redemption came under the Old Covenant (Hbr 9:15). So why do you say it came under the New Covenant?
God Bless!
D
ddubsolo85
Guest
Jay T: The Christian world has yet to understand what it is !!!
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people [from] their sins.
The Christian world teaches that God will save you [in] your sins......NOT !
The truth is....1 John3:9 "Whosoever is born of God [doth not] commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
ddub: And who fits this qualification? Do you know of anyone besides Jesus?
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for [they are without fault] before the throne of God....."
"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:4,5...12).
ddub: The 144,000? Are you saying they are born of God? They cannot sin, aren't capable of sinning? For clarity, is that what you're saying?
God Bless!
J
Jay T
Guest
[/quote:d1d75]ddubsolo85 said:[quote:d1d75]ay T; And what is salvation ?
ddub: Redemption of one's transgressions, and eternal life.
OK now....Let me illustrate this with a formula:
FAITH + GRACE = SALVATION
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God", (Romans 10:17).
So, faith only comes by what God has said in the Bible.
In the Bible is revealed the plan of salvation, God's character (Which is reflected in the 10 commandments, found in Exodus 20:3-17).
Examples of Grace:
"By whom we have received grace and apostleship, [for obedience].... to the faith among all nations, for his name", (Romans 1:5).
AGAIN: "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
2:12 [Teaching us].... that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly .....[in this present world]", (Titus 2:11,12).
Did you get that ?
Grace is for living in obedience, to what is said in the Bible, and living it out in this present world.
Salvation is not going to heaven.
Heaven ...is the 'reward' for those who have lived a righteous and godly life ...'in this present world'...which means to live, without committing any known sins !
J
Jay T
Guest
ddubsolo85 said:Jay T: The Christian world has yet to understand what it is !!!
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people [from] their sins.
The Christian world teaches that God will save you [in] your sins......NOT !
The truth is....1 John3:9 "Whosoever is born of God [doth not] commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
ddub: And who fits this qualification? Do you know of anyone besides Jesus?
[quote:a1ffd]"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for [they are without fault] before the throne of God....."
"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:4,5...12).
ddub: The 144,000? Are you saying they are born of God? They cannot sin, aren't capable of sinning? For clarity, is that what you're saying?
God Bless![/quote:a1ffd]Chapter 14 of Revelation talks about the 144,000 (verse 1).....being the 'redeemed' form among men...being the firstfruits of the Lamb of God....and they are without fault before the throne of God (verse 4,5).
They are the ones who warn the people of earth about the 'Mark of the Beast' (verses 9-11).
They are the ones who are the 'saints'...who keep all 10 commandmetns of God, as well as having the same faith Jesus had (verse 12).
And then, in verses 14-19 Jesus Christ returns ....the 2nd time.
D
ddubsolo85
Guest
Chapter 14 of Revelation talks about the 144,000 (verse 1).....being the 'redeemed' form among men...being the firstfruits of the Lamb of God....and they are without fault before the throne of God (verse 4,5).
They are the ones who warn the people of earth about the 'Mark of the Beast' (verses 9-11).
They are the ones who are the 'saints'...who keep all 10 commandmetns of God, as well as having the same faith Jesus had (verse 12).
And then, in verses 14-19 Jesus Christ returns ....the 2nd time.
OK, just to stay on the subject, what does this have to do with whether or not Gentiles are under the New Covenant?
D
ddubsolo85
Guest
Called according to His purpose
Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us.
Jesus Christ is the New Covenant as well as the redemption
to those who are called according to His purpose.
This is where I have peace.
ddub: But the bible says that redemption came under the Old Covenant (Hbr 9:15). So why do you say it came under the New Covenant?
God Bless!
Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us.
Jesus Christ is the New Covenant as well as the redemption
to those who are called according to His purpose.
This is where I have peace.
ddub: But the bible says that redemption came under the Old Covenant (Hbr 9:15). So why do you say it came under the New Covenant?
God Bless!
C
cj
Guest
Hey all,
My thinking is that Christ Himself is the New Covenant.
cj
My thinking is that Christ Himself is the New Covenant.
cj
E
evanman
Guest
Jesus's blood is the redemption price of the New Covenant!
J
Jay T
Guest
The term: being born-again...means to become a new creature in Christ.ddubsolo85 said:Chapter 14 of Revelation talks about the 144,000 (verse 1).....being the 'redeemed' form among men...being the firstfruits of the Lamb of God....and they are without fault before the throne of God (verse 4,5).
They are the ones who warn the people of earth about the 'Mark of the Beast' (verses 9-11).
They are the ones who are the 'saints'...who keep all 10 commandmetns of God, as well as having the same faith Jesus had (verse 12).
And then, in verses 14-19 Jesus Christ returns ....the 2nd time.
OK, just to stay on the subject, what does this have to do with whether or not Gentiles are under the New Covenant?
Thus Romans 2:29 comes into play: "But he [is] a Jew, which is one [inwardly] ....[is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God".
Every promise ever made in the Bible, was to the Jews...never Gentiles (New Covenant, Hebrews 8:8-10).
Galations 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise".
E
evanman
Guest
God made promises to Abraham and Isaac--these were not Jews!
J
Jay T
Guest
Better read the whole verse.evanman said:God made promises to Abraham and Isaac--these were not Jews!
D
ddubsolo85
Guest
evan:
ddub: No argument. But Jesus' blood is the redemption price for both covenants.
God Bless!
Jesus's blood is the redemption price of the New Covenant!
ddub: No argument. But Jesus' blood is the redemption price for both covenants.
God Bless!
D
ddubsolo85
Guest
ddub: OK, just to stay on the subject, what does this have to do with whether or not Gentiles are under the New Covenant?
Jay T:
ddub: But you must first be a Jew outwardly before you can be one inwardly. Jews are Jews, Gentiles are Gentiles.
Jay T:
ddub: Not true.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Jay T: [
ddub: Exactly. In Christ, there is no difference between one or another. Christ is no respecter of persons. Yet, Jews were given promises not given to Gentiles.
God Bless!
Jay T:
The term: being born-again...means to become a new creature in Christ.
Thus Romans 2:29 comes into play: "But he [is] a Jew, which is one [inwardly] ....[is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God".
ddub: But you must first be a Jew outwardly before you can be one inwardly. Jews are Jews, Gentiles are Gentiles.
Jay T:
Every promise ever made in the Bible, was to the Jews...never Gentiles (New Covenant, Hebrews 8:8-10).
ddub: Not true.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Jay T: [
b]Galations 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise".[/b]
ddub: Exactly. In Christ, there is no difference between one or another. Christ is no respecter of persons. Yet, Jews were given promises not given to Gentiles.
God Bless!