do you think homosexuals should be allowed to marry?

[Guest]

Someone brings up the topic of homosexuality and Sput shows up! What's with that? :-D

you showed up :-D

 

[Solo]

Someone brings up the topic of homosexuality and Sput shows up! What's with that? :-D

you showed up :-D

You haven't been around long enough to even post that comment, pardner. Of course it isn't the only thing that you don't know! :wink:

 

[AHIMSA]

I can understand why a Christian would have a moral issue with the legalization of gay marriage. Opposition to same sex sexual relations has long been embedded in Christian tradition. When the Bible was written it had no notion of sexual orientation and the authors were only aquainted with forms of homosexual contact that were either exploitive and degrading, or that were associated with pagan, cultic practices. Simply put, the Bible has nothing to say on the idea of a committed, monogomous homosexual couple (as the very idea of a "homosexual" was non-existant), so we can only speculate.

These are the cold facts: Marriage does not belong to Christianity. Marriage existed in pre-biblical society, it exists in non-biblical, non-Christian-Judeo society, and it exists within and without Christian homes. Marriage is now a state controlled affair, the state is generous enough to allow the Church to have a degree of autonomy in marriage. We have the privlege to go to a church, get married and have the state recognize that marriage without having to go to a government office.

The state is not concerned with the "sacredness of marriage". The notion of sacred exists in the religious sphere alone. You can get married in a government office, you can have known the person for a whole of five minutes, you can get an Elvis impersonator to marry you. Britney Spears got drunk, got married and anulled it hours later. If you so desire, you can audition and compete for a man to be married to on television with the whole of Americ watching. The state allows all this, even though it conflicts with the Christian idea of marriage being sacred.

When you choose to live in a diverse, free society you are given the freedom to choose to be who you want to be, to practice what faith you want. However, if you choose to live in this society you are also making comprimises of your own. Thus, you must be willing to see things that you see as immoral. If the state seeks to re-define marriage, an institution which it owns, then that is something that should be accepted.

Homosexuals have the right for their relationship to be recognized by the state, they live together as a couple, sharing their money, their love, their property and even creating families; the very things which heterosexual married couples share. The difference between the two relationships? Genitals.

For the protection of their shared property, assets, wealth and family, the state has an obligation to legally recognize these relationships.

Gay couples will exist whether or not the state acknowledges them. Assenting to these relationships changes nothing for society, but makes an incredibly difference to those couples.

 

[Solo]

Homosexuality will only last as long as individuals are allowed to live in the darkness of their desires, and that will end when Jesus Christ returns. At that point their will be no homosexuals, murderers, whoremongers, thiefs, liars, adulterers, etc. There will be no more pain, sorrow, death, suffering, etc.

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1 Timothy 1:9-11

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:4


8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 

[Guest]

Homosexuality will only last as long as individuals are allowed to live in the darkness of their desires, and that will end when Jesus Christ returns. At that point their will be no homosexuals, murderers, whoremongers, thiefs, liars, adulterers, etc. There will be no more pain, sorrow, death, suffering, etc.

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1 Timothy 1:9-11

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:4


8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

not everybody is a religious fundimentalist like you, the world has changed in the last millenium in case you havn't noticed, and homosexuality will enevitably be accepted, let the bible be a guide for your life if you must mut don't let it rule over you to the point where you never have a thought of your own.

 

[Solo]

Homosexuality will only last as long as individuals are allowed to live in the darkness of their desires, and that will end when Jesus Christ returns. At that point their will be no homosexuals, murderers, whoremongers, thiefs, liars, adulterers, etc. There will be no more pain, sorrow, death, suffering, etc.

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1 Timothy 1:9-11

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:4


8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

not everybody is a religious fundimentalist like you, the world has changed in the last millenium in case you havn't noticed, and homosexuality will enevitably be accepted, let the bible be a guide for your life if you must mut don't let it rule over you to the point where you never have a thought of your own.

Homosexuality will never be accepted by your creator, God almighty. I'll bet my life on it!! I would rather have God's thoughts on all matters, because as you have shown, man's thoughts are ridiculous and errant apart from Him.

 

[Guest]

Homosexuality will only last as long as individuals are allowed to live in the darkness of their desires, and that will end when Jesus Christ returns. At that point their will be no homosexuals, murderers, whoremongers, thiefs, liars, adulterers, etc. There will be no more pain, sorrow, death, suffering, etc.

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1 Timothy 1:9-11

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:4


8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

not everybody is a religious fundimentalist like you, the world has changed in the last millenium in case you havn't noticed, and homosexuality will enevitably be accepted, let the bible be a guide for your life if you must mut don't let it rule over you to the point where you never have a thought of your own.

Homosexuality will never be accepted by your creator, God almighty. I'll bet my life on it!! I would rather have God's thoughts on all matters, because as you have shown, man's thoughts are ridiculous and errant apart from Him.

do you think that god is so petit that he would not let his creations live how they felt fit?

 

[Solo]

Homosexuality will only last as long as individuals are allowed to live in the darkness of their desires, and that will end when Jesus Christ returns. At that point their will be no homosexuals, murderers, whoremongers, thiefs, liars, adulterers, etc. There will be no more pain, sorrow, death, suffering, etc.

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1 Timothy 1:9-11

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:4


8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

not everybody is a religious fundimentalist like you, the world has changed in the last millenium in case you havn't noticed, and homosexuality will enevitably be accepted, let the bible be a guide for your life if you must mut don't let it rule over you to the point where you never have a thought of your own.

Homosexuality will never be accepted by your creator, God almighty. I'll bet my life on it!! I would rather have God's thoughts on all matters, because as you have shown, man's thoughts are ridiculous and errant apart from Him.

do you think that god is so petit that he would not let his creations live how they felt fit?

God will not allow the unrighteous to gain access to his eternal kingdom. You can live in sin if you want, but it will end one day. Hopefully you will grow enough to know the difference between right and wrong. God is righteous and just, and man is lost apart from God's redemption. A man born of God cannot sin, but a man not born of God, can do nothing but sin.

God's creation can live how they choose, but they will be sent to the eternal place of their choice, away from God.

 

[Lewis]

The answer is just plain no.

 

[Guest]

Homosexuality will only last as long as individuals are allowed to live in the darkness of their desires, and that will end when Jesus Christ returns. At that point their will be no homosexuals, murderers, whoremongers, thiefs, liars, adulterers, etc. There will be no more pain, sorrow, death, suffering, etc.

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1 Timothy 1:9-11

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:4


8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

not everybody is a religious fundimentalist like you, the world has changed in the last millenium in case you havn't noticed, and homosexuality will enevitably be accepted, let the bible be a guide for your life if you must mut don't let it rule over you to the point where you never have a thought of your own.

Homosexuality will never be accepted by your creator, God almighty. I'll bet my life on it!! I would rather have God's thoughts on all matters, because as you have shown, man's thoughts are ridiculous and errant apart from Him.

do you think that god is so petit that he would not let his creations live how they felt fit?

God will not allow the unrighteous to gain access to his eternal kingdom. You can live in sin if you want, but it will end one day. Hopefully you will grow enough to know the difference between right and wrong. God is righteous and just, and man is lost apart from God's redemption. A man born of God cannot sin, but a man not born of God, can do nothing but sin.

God's creation can live how they choose, but they will be sent to the eternal place of their choice, away from God.

there is no right and wrong, no black and white, only grey, and those who interperate it Gayness is not wrong, it does not harm anybody, I do not believe that an all powerful being would care if sombody decided to be with one of the same sex.

 

[peace4all]

Does everyone in this topic have me on ignore?

I just seem to wonder..

 

[Guest]

Does everyone in this topic have me on ignore?

I just seem to wonder..

srry missed your post i guess

 

[Guest]

Then there will be posts of biblical doctrine to which there will be a rebuttal claiming the bible is old or some such thing and it all ends with someone wanting the last word and the whole thing gets tiresome and dies.

maybe interperate in a context that would fit our modern world

Right on schedule.
:-D

Why are we using the Christian Bible to enforce rules upon the Nation of the Free? Where we can be any religion.

AS you said earlier potluck, Marriage isn't a right, It is a privlege.

If it is a privlage, and it is NOT being afforded to someone because of their religion, than Legally, the Government can have no part in it (besides the obvious making sure no one is getting killed or whatnot) So then, that would stop all the tax benifits etc that married individuals have.

I do not agree that it should be marriage, Because, marriage is crhstian. However a similar thing, such as a Civil union, which still is afforded the same government perks, would be fair.

true, a person should have the right to live their life the way they wish

 

[Rick W]

true, a person should have the right to live their life the way they wish

And living under marriage defined as between one man and one woman is one of them. Would you sacrifice the privileges of the many for the privileges of the few? For in every state where a vote was held at least 70% voted to retain the definition of marriage. Why can't you understand the present definition is important to people?

Oh, and before you play the "equality card". Can there be moral equality? This is what it's about. Changing the entire moral structure of marriage. Equality sounds good as far as rights are concerned and indeed they are but when it comes to moral issues someone must give up their sense of morality to embrace another. And therein lies the problem. Morality isn't just an "equality" issue but a sense of right and wrong that must be shared by all when morality is legislated. We either go with this set of morals or we go with that set. To be equal in morality we'd have to endorse both sets and law can't support both definitions. It's one or the other. Things of the heart make little sense as it is and morality sometimes is one of the most illogical concepts known to man.

As far as Massachusetts is concerned the people never had a chance to vote on the issue. It was imposed upon them whether they liked it or not. That was a wake-up call for those in other states that they wouldn't be blind-sided in like manner. Since then the people of Massachusetts have tried to overturn the ruling but all has failed. They are denied the vote that others are afforded. Is that fair to you?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Someone brings up the topic of homosexuality and Sput shows up! What's with that? :-D

Hey, I waited until page 3. You were here before I was! :smt019

 

[SputnikBoy]

I can understand why a Christian would have a moral issue with the legalization of gay marriage. Opposition to same sex sexual relations has long been embedded in Christian tradition. When the Bible was written it had no notion of sexual orientation and the authors were only aquainted with forms of homosexual contact that were either exploitive and degrading, or that were associated with pagan, cultic practices. Simply put, the Bible has nothing to say on the idea of a committed, monogomous homosexual couple (as the very idea of a "homosexual" was non-existant), so we can only speculate.

These are the cold facts: Marriage does not belong to Christianity. Marriage existed in pre-biblical society, it exists in non-biblical, non-Christian-Judeo society, and it exists within and without Christian homes. Marriage is now a state controlled affair, the state is generous enough to allow the Church to have a degree of autonomy in marriage. We have the privlege to go to a church, get married and have the state recognize that marriage without having to go to a government office.

The state is not concerned with the "sacredness of marriage". The notion of sacred exists in the religious sphere alone. You can get married in a government office, you can have known the person for a whole of five minutes, you can get an Elvis impersonator to marry you. Britney Spears got drunk, got married and anulled it hours later. If you so desire, you can audition and compete for a man to be married to on television with the whole of Americ watching. The state allows all this, even though it conflicts with the Christian idea of marriage being sacred.

When you choose to live in a diverse, free society you are given the freedom to choose to be who you want to be, to practice what faith you want. However, if you choose to live in this society you are also making comprimises of your own. Thus, you must be willing to see things that you see as immoral. If the state seeks to re-define marriage, an institution which it owns, then that is something that should be accepted.

Homosexuals have the right for their relationship to be recognized by the state, they live together as a couple, sharing their money, their love, their property and even creating families; the very things which heterosexual married couples share. The difference between the two relationships? Genitals.

For the protection of their shared property, assets, wealth and family, the state has an obligation to legally recognize these relationships.

Gay couples will exist whether or not the state acknowledges them. Assenting to these relationships changes nothing for society, but makes an incredibly difference to those couples.

Good post, AHIMSA. While some might hurl a few sentences from The Book at this post, I kinda liked it. Maybe it's because Mr. & Mrs. Average Christian are beginning to bore me more and more these days with their glaring hypocrisy that it's bringing out the cynic in me. There is none righteous ...no, not one (Romans 3:10). That text basically means ...only Jesus is righteous so keep your fingers to yourselves, folks!

 

[Guest]

There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, if you thinkgod is so petit that he would care how sombody chooses to live their life, then maybe you should reconsider how loving you think this god is.

According to you there is nothing wrong with homosexuality but the Bible is clear about what God attended for man and women.

It is not a sin if you interperate the bible correctly, allow others to live how they wish.

Really...Then explain the following verses exegetically:

Leviticus 18:22:
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

It's funny how christians will site some passages as their beliefs, and yet completely ignore others, yet they claim that it is the word of god and is suppost to obay, if you want to site passages that are anti-homosexual then I will begin to site the darker passages of the bible.

 

[AHIMSA]

As I said before, we can not make any certain statements about how the biblical authors would see homosexuality if they lived today. When the Bible was written its authors knew only of forms of same-sex sexual interaction that was either exlpoitive and degrading or associated with pagan cultic, fertility practices. These people had no concept of sexual orientation and saw homosexual sex as a decision made by heterosexual people out of excessive lust, as a consequence of idolatory, or as a way to dominate and humiliate a male opponent. The idea of a committed, monogomous homosexual couple who were in love and respecting eachother was simply not present. To use Leviticus or several passages from Paul as a blanket statement against all homosexual couples is taking the passages out of their context and applying them to something that the authors really knew nothing about.

 

[ArtGuy]

1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

I love the 'effeminate' abomination. Does this refer to a man having long hair? If not, what DOES this mean, Nocturnal? Make something up if you need to.

The original Greek text for that passage reads as "malakoi" and "arsenokoitai", for "effeminate" and "homosexuals. "Malakoi" is literally translated as "soft", and refers to young boys who would be on the receiving end of anal sex. "Arsenokoitai" were male prostitutes, but they served members of both sexes.

Which particular groups these words were meant to vilify is left as an exercise for the reader.

 

[SputnikBoy]

As I said before, we can not make any certain statements about how the biblical authors would see homosexuality if they lived today. When the Bible was written its authors knew only of forms of same-sex sexual interaction that was either exlpoitive and degrading or associated with pagan cultic, fertility practices. These people had no concept of sexual orientation and saw homosexual sex as a decision made by heterosexual people out of excessive lust, as a consequence of idolatory, or as a way to dominate and humiliate a male opponent. The idea of a committed, monogomous homosexual couple who were in love and respecting eachother was simply not present. To use Leviticus or several passages from Paul as a blanket statement against all homosexual couples is taking the passages out of their context and applying them to something that the authors really knew nothing about.

While neither condoning or condemning, I have to acknowledge the common-sense reasoning of your post, AHIMSA.

I believe that any fair minded person - Christian or not - would make allowances for the POSSIBILITY that one's sexual orientation at birth is not necessarily a black and white issue. Christians in particular, sadly, so often turn off their brains whenever they start wielding the Bible as a weapon over this issue. I can't emphasize enough the fact that one's brain and one's ability to reason through complex human issues is also God-given.