Life after death
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I believe God will forgive a true believer who commit suicide. What is your thought?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Do you think suicide is unforgivable sin?
- Thread starter Life after death
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journeymanisnothing
Member
Hello Life after death.
I don't want to sound insensitive, but the Bible says a lot about our Lords' followers persevering. Many of our family in Christ have held fast to our proffession through very trying times, through long periods of time.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't have folded under the kind of pressure Jesus and the Apostles faced, but I do ask for that kind of patience.
I think the church today is far removed from its beginning. They faced hardship with joy.
I do believe our dear Lord can forgive any sin, provided repentance is genuine.
I don't want to sound insensitive, but the Bible says a lot about our Lords' followers persevering. Many of our family in Christ have held fast to our proffession through very trying times, through long periods of time.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't have folded under the kind of pressure Jesus and the Apostles faced, but I do ask for that kind of patience.
I think the church today is far removed from its beginning. They faced hardship with joy.
I do believe our dear Lord can forgive any sin, provided repentance is genuine.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
IMO there is a lot of confusion on the definition of the word "unforgivable." It is not the same as unforgiven. Unforgivable means not able to be forgiven under any circumstance. If a person commits suicide by a slow poison, or fatally injures themselves, but it takes time for them to die, then there is a [limited] time to repent. And it can be forgiven. That means it is NOT "unforgivable."
I guess my question would be why would a "true believer" do that? Several possibilities come to mind, like doing it to save someone else's life.
Who can say for sure? I would like to think God takes pity on those that end their own lives. Robin Williams comes to mind. He was suffering with an incurable disease.
I find it hard to believe God would send such an otherwise beautiful soul to hell. It just seems utterly cruel and unnecessary.
I find it hard to believe God would send such an otherwise beautiful soul to hell. It just seems utterly cruel and unnecessary.
Life after death
Member
Incurable disease is one example but there are situations even more worse. I am one of those souls. When I hear such stories I feel a big responsibilities to pray to God to take these souls to him. We as a Christians need to do something about this things. There people suffering beyond imagination. It should have been there right to ask for there government to help them end their live peacefully. But in some countries it is even a crime to think of such things. Do we need to be in there shoes to understand the depth of their suffering. But as a believer can't we stand before God for them. We need your prayer. I for one is victim of terminal mental suffering. I don't have a relief from my agonizing pain and suffering for minute. Why do I have to live like these for years like this what is the point of living anymore for me. I believe our God is not a sadist God he knows what people like me are living like on behalf all them now I am crying to the almighty to bring an end to our endless suffering please anyone reading this I need some pity from you. My soul Is suffering day and night my agony is beyond imagination. Pray for me and other similar souls for God to take us.
The idea of suicide being unforgivable, is based on false assumptions.
1# that Jesus spoke to Christians about an unforgivable sin. Before Christianity began, he said to opponents that while getting it wrong about him as the human level was forgivable/excusable, to reach beyond and reject what God’s spirit was doing through messiah at the deific level, was closing them off to the coming messianic level of God’s kingdom (Mt.12:28,31). (PS: Paul rebuked some at a human level, but not their work at a deific level: Php.1:15-8; sadly some reject PG preachers and their preach.)
There is a strong correlation between the evangelical term, forgiveness, and entrance into messiah’s kingdom. In short, the Pharisees couldn’t be forgiven/enter into, unless they stopped calling the spirit’s work, satanic. Christianity is the spirit’s Level 3 work. Pharisee Saul of Tarsus was committing that unforgivable (entrance blocking) sin, until he identified the lord as Jesus messiah (Ac.9:5).
2# that for postmortem life, a sin/forgiven account needs to be up to date. In short, only sins confessed/repented of/cleansed before death, are ultimately forgiven. Axiomatically therefore, to end mortal life by suicide precludes that sin (see 3#) being forgiven.
3# that suicide is always, or at least sometimes, a sin. Masks of Melancholy (John White), analyses types of suicide, eg altruistic suicide, arguably commendable and not a sin. Some suicides are not virtuous, but excusable IMO.
4# that all taking of human life is sinful. Funny, murder someone and you can be forgiven; kill yourself and you can’t be? It’s basic to see that not all homicide, is murder, though some homicides are. God commanded certain non-sinful killings.
Highway54
Member
I personally think so as well. Normal people desire to live forever, however we realize that at some point in life we will face death. I am not God of course, but I hate to see anyone suffer. If someone was in anguish with no hope of recovery, and committed suicide, wouldn't most people of love consider it mercy? What kind of a loving God would want to see anyone suffer?
Of course I am not the judge, but most Christians euthanize our pets when death is imminent and they are in pain, why shouldn't we do it for our loved ones?
journeymanisnothing
Member
Very sorry to hear about your pain. I have suffered mental anguish in life, but not without relief.
I wanted to specifically point out something you said beautifully,
This is a better sermon than you will hear in any church today, because that's what our blessed Savior felt like hanging from the cross. To live in the upside down world he did would have driven me insane.
Because most of the time few that are euthanized are actually terminally ill
Imagine being 21,you have
Depression ,no cure .
PTSD no cure.
Chronic pain of ra , fibromyalgia.no cure
My wife has that and has had it a decade and isn't 70 .
A bullet is less painfull then the seizure meds .my dad was epileptic he said you feel it and know all that goes and you can't control it .
That's how you die .there is no gentle way.
Life isn't promised to be tranquil from God at all . Much of what drive suicide is often petty .I speak from my own experience.if I feed it .it gets strong.if I look to God it isn't so bad.
Nothing on earth is gonna solve or be our source .I have to remind myself this suck will pass
The current suck of my fil dying at 89.
He will be in heaven.
journeymanisnothing
Member
You're right, but we should also include that God would send the Holy Spirit inside a believer who would give a great big hug to someone suffering mentally because of abuse.
I've seen women so traumatized by an abusive spouse, they were afraid to tell anyone.
I know you know this, but there have always been Jews and gentiles who don't practice what God wants all people to do.
I've been healed from wrongful thoughts by people who loved me.
Highway54
Member
So it looks like you have basically the same opinion as I have, that depending upon the circumstances God likely will not consider suicide an unforgivable sin. But truth is, it is simply opinions that we form based on love for others by not wanting them to suffer.
The actual only thing that will answer the question truthfully is when we see them come back in the resurrection or not. I am sure it will be addressed when the Kingdom comes.
Dont confuse dnr with actual murder.
The former is simply letting death happen versus causing it .
Tenchi
Member
Christ is about Life, not death.
John 10:10 (NASB)
10 "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
John 1:4 (NASB)
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
That "abundant life" is in Christ himself, not in circumstances, nor in relationships with other people.
Colossians 3:3-4 (NASB)
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
When a believer is living in full fellowship with Christ, settled into him as life itself, then it is that they experience an abundance of all that is good and true, all that is Christ, their Creator and God. Such an experience doesn't have to wait for eternity, for the other side of the grave, to be experienced.
Romans 5:5 (NASB)
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Ephesians 5:8-9 (NASB)
8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light
9 (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
John 15:4-5 (NASB)
4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
Matthew 11:28-30 (NASB)
28 "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
30 "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
The "abundant life" is supposed to be the daily, common experience of all those in whom the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, dwells. The key to such an experience of Christ is loving submission to him, to the will and way of the Spirit.
Romans 6:13 (NASB)
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Romans 12:1 (NASB)
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
James 4:7-10 (NASB)
7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.
1 Peter 5:6 (NASB)
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,
Romans 8:14 (NASB)
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Why is submission to God the key? Because the Holy Spirit will not force upon us all that he is and the changes that he must make as he fills us with himself. We must be in constant agreement with the Spirit's transformation of us into people in whom Jesus can be clearly seen. We agree by submitting, in love, to the Spirit's control, all throughout every day. As we're submitted, the Spirit goes to work transforming our desires, thinking and conduct, making Jesus manifest in our living.
2 Corinthians 4:6-11 (NASB)
6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;
8 we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;
9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
10 always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.
11 For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
In this transformed life, we encounter the abundance of life that Jesus is - the life God intends all of His children to enjoy.
In light of these things, it is evident that suicide is not of God, it is not at all characteristic of life in the Spirit. Having a mind and heart occupied with self-murder is in keeping with the goals of the "thief" - that is, the devil - who comes to "steal, kill and destroy." He wants to see you dead and as miserable on route to death as possible.
Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB)
19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live...
I vote "NO" (not that this is a democracy)
Opens up a wider question. Does anyone who has thought of suicide committed an 'unforgivable sin'.
Consider: "27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who [so much as] looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Seems like same thought would apply to those thinking of suicide.
Person faced with 6 months of pain with chemo therapy or not take treatment and die in 1 month. Is that suicide?
Person about to go to be tortured (or forced to marry Whoopi Goldberg, need a touch of levity
) ... say getting waterboarded ... I think I might prefer suicide to that.
Christ knowingly allows Himself to be killed. Is that suicide? Granted, ultimate noble action and by definition not a sin.
There are other situations where one knows he will die to save another. Wife is ransomed and man says take me instead.
Is taking drugs and extreme obsiety acts of suicide; granted, slower form of it ... like playing Russian roulette.
I vote NO.
:halo
Opens up a wider question. Does anyone who has thought of suicide committed an 'unforgivable sin'.
Consider: "27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who [so much as] looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Seems like same thought would apply to those thinking of suicide.
Person faced with 6 months of pain with chemo therapy or not take treatment and die in 1 month. Is that suicide?
Person about to go to be tortured (or forced to marry Whoopi Goldberg, need a touch of levity
) ... say getting waterboarded ... I think I might prefer suicide to that.Christ knowingly allows Himself to be killed. Is that suicide? Granted, ultimate noble action and by definition not a sin.
There are other situations where one knows he will die to save another. Wife is ransomed and man says take me instead.
Is taking drugs and extreme obsiety acts of suicide; granted, slower form of it ... like playing Russian roulette.
I vote NO.
:halo
Reading your question my thoughts began to come to the part of Scripture that speaks of our bodies being a temple of the Holy Spirit and so I did some digging. Maybe this will speak to you.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NKJV
Would suicide defile the temple?
And here are some words of encouragement from King David.
11 Come, you children, listen to me;
I will teach you the fear of the Lord.
12 Who is the man who desires life,
And loves many days, that he may see good?
13 Keep your tongue from evil,
And your lips from speaking deceit.
14 Depart from evil and do good;
Seek peace and pursue it.
15 The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.
16 The face of the Lord is against those who do evil,
To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
17 The righteous cry out, and the Lord hears,
And delivers them out of all their troubles.
18 The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart,
And saves such as have a contrite spirit.
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the Lord delivers him out of them all.
20 He guards all his bones;
Not one of them is broken.
21 Evil shall slay the wicked,
And those who hate the righteous shall be condemned.
22 The Lord redeems the soul of His servants,
And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned.
Psalm 34:11-22 NKJV
PrimFinallyFoundGod!
Member
Not unforgivable. I also don't think it is enough to say whether one goes to heaven or not. God knows us inside and out better than even ourselves. He understands the grey area of things. So only he can make the decision.
I've attempted it as a non believer several times and I wasn't in my right mind at all. Instant regrets afterwards. Depression is a parasite it makes you believe things that aren't true. TBH it is a lot like the Devil itself. A sick liar out to get you and manipulate you.
My thoughts are always with those who become victims of suicide and depression. It is a horrible thing for everyone involved and has huge ripple effects. The pain it causes is immense. The only winner in this situation is Satan.
I've attempted it as a non believer several times and I wasn't in my right mind at all. Instant regrets afterwards. Depression is a parasite it makes you believe things that aren't true. TBH it is a lot like the Devil itself. A sick liar out to get you and manipulate you.
My thoughts are always with those who become victims of suicide and depression. It is a horrible thing for everyone involved and has huge ripple effects. The pain it causes is immense. The only winner in this situation is Satan.
Short answer: No, Mark 3:29 is the only unforgivable sin.
Although since you commit suicide means ending your life, you therefore cannot repent of it and die in sin. So in my opinion it's not unforgivable in that if someones does it, it cannot be forgiven, especially a failed attempted or you have time before you pass.
But it may not be able to be forgiven because you can't quite ask for forgiveness once your dead, thus you shut off the forgiveness window, not God as is done in Mark 3:29.
Although since you commit suicide means ending your life, you therefore cannot repent of it and die in sin. So in my opinion it's not unforgivable in that if someones does it, it cannot be forgiven, especially a failed attempted or you have time before you pass.
But it may not be able to be forgiven because you can't quite ask for forgiveness once your dead, thus you shut off the forgiveness window, not God as is done in Mark 3:29.