Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
Hey, I'm getting lonely being the only one voting "YES". Come over to the "dark side" with me.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Does God choose people to go to Hell?
- Thread starter atpollard
- Start date
electedbyhim
Member
I think I have already posting those verses.
I have yet to read a commentary on Romans 9:22 that actually deals with ...
Romans 9:22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
I will dig deeper, I am on the fence, I think, maybe.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
- Jeremiah 10:23 O Lord [pleads Jeremiah in the name of the people], I know that [the determination of] the way of a man is not in himself; it is not in man [even in a strong man or in a man at his best] to direct his [own] steps. [puppets…plainly it says we do not determine our fate]
- Lamentations 3:37 Who is there who speaks and it comes to pass, Unless the Lord has commanded it? 38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both good and ill go forth?
- Daniel 5:23b But you have not glorified the God who has in his control your very breath and all your ways!
- John 12:39-40 “They could not believe, because Isaiah said again: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they should see with their eyes, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them.” Sounds like God is actively seeing to it the people go to hell
journeyman
Member
I understand my friend. It's not a place, but a tempoary event, caused by our Lords' appearing and his effect on the unrepentant.
My point was, I was many of the things listed in Rev.21:8 and was therefore predestined for damnation, until I repented.
Actually the biblically model involves …
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17
- How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed
- And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard
- And how shall they hear without a preacher?
- And how shall they preach unless they are sent?
God uses people who He sends to preach the Gospel.
- But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
The way a person is saved is by believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.
I “idea” or “doctrine” that God saves a person first, then later then “believe” the Gospel, is not from God.
A person must hear the Gospel and obey it.
JLB
My God is the Lord God of the Bible.
He is my righteousness!
He is my salvation!
He is my rock!
He is my shield!
He is my very present help in time of need.
He is my life!
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36
You can call Him all the names you want; it won’t change Who He is, or what He deserves, or what He requires.
JLB
Highway54
Member
Wasn't the point of my answer though sir, it was more of an identification of hell. The answer to your questions are both no. God's desire for all humans is this sir: 2pe 3:9 The Lord is . . . not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
If God doesn't wish any to perish He could easily have reprobates die in the womb and problem solved. If I can think of a solution I am sure God can.
If God doesn't wish any to perish contradicts the fact that God give billions of people no chance to be saved as faith cometh by hearing and billions have died having received NO KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST which is necessary to be saved.
Your statement does not standup to facts.
Highway54
Member
Is God evil Fred? Those billions who have not heard of Him is a shoe in I believe? How can a loving and righteous God hold those to account that He did not warn? No sir, that doesn't make any sense at all. Remember those resurrected are not judged on this life, rather they are judged for everlasting life when satan is released at the end of the thousand yrs. Rev 20:5, 7,8,13,14.
You are mistaken about people not having knowledge of the Christ Fred, as he was mentioned in the first prophecy recorded at Gen 3:15 and many prophecies through the years after that as well, in fact God's people even thought that John the Baptist might even be him as they knew the time for his arrival was then.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
No idea what that means.
The bible says it because the are sinners without excuse .... see Romans 1
Lot's of scriptures saying God does not love some people:
Psalm 5:5 “Thou hatest all workers of iniquity”—not merely the works of iniquity. Here, then, is a flat repudiation of present teaching that, God hates sin but loves the sinner; Scripture says, Psalm 7:11 “God is angry with the wicked every day.” (KJV) John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (KJV) —not “shall abide,” but even now— ”abideth on him” (Psalm 5:5; Psalm 7:11; John 3:36b). Can God “love” the one on whom His “wrath” abides? Again; is it not evident that the words “The love of God which is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:39) mark a limitation, both in the sphere and objects of His love? Again; is it not plain from the words “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (Romans 9:13) that God does not love everybody?
It may not make sense to you but you have not referred to God's word to validate your opinion. You're relying on what your personal, internal definition of God is and expect Him to act accordingly. Again, refer to scripture when declaring what God does and doesn't do.
Prove it.
I will prove you wrong by referring you to google "how many people have never heard of jesus"
First site says: "
How can we reach the 3 billion who have never heard of Jesus?
https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...lion.who.have.never.heard.of.jesus/136398.htm
You made statements, now give facts or scripture to verify your statements
Yes, that's seen by the fact He didn't include their names in the book of life penned, recorded from the foundation, so its evident He had purposed they would be vessels of wrath fitted for destruction for the praise of His Glorious Justice.
You are confusing predestined with foreknowledge.
This is a common mistake of those who do not have a working knowledge of the whole counsel of God.
What about those who are blotted out of the book of life?
Are they vessels of wrath?
JLB
atpollard
Member
What about the "whole council" and the "Book of Life"?
- Psalms 69:22-28 [NKJV] 22 Let their table become a snare before them, And their well-being a trap. 23 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see; And make their loins shake continually. 24 Pour out Your indignation upon them, And let Your wrathful anger take hold of them. 25 Let their dwelling place be desolate; Let no one live in their tents. 26 For they persecute the ones You have struck, And talk of the grief of those You have wounded. 27 Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into Your righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.
- v28 [DBY] Let them be blotted out of the book of life, and not be written with the righteous.
- v28 [NASB] May they be wiped out of the book of life, And may they not be recorded with the righteous.
- v28 [NIV] May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.
- v28 [NLT] Erase their names from the Book of Life; don’t let them be counted among the righteous.
- v28 [YLT] They are blotted out of the book of life, And with the righteous are not written.
- Philippians 4:2-3 [NKJV] 2 I implore Euodia and I implore Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life.
- Revelation 3:1-5 [NKJV] 1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 "Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 "You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
- Revelation 13:5-8 [NKJV] 5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
- Revelation 17:7-8 [NKJV] 7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
- Revelation 20:11-15 [NKJV] 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Highway54
Member
No need Fred. You and I simply disagree. You seem to believe I am better than God, and I certainly hope that is not the case. Time will reveal if either of us are correct. One thing is certain there will be a resurrection of the righteous as well as the unrighteous Acts 24:15. Likely you will define unrighteous as deliberate sinners, we believe they were ignorant of God and His requirements. Like you said billions over history has never been given the opportunity to come to know Him, so His failure to warn them is no fault of theirs. If God is actually unrighteous, we will all find out in the near future sir.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
Possible sarcasm, otherwise ridiculous.
I assume you are speaking about the requirements for salvation. Then I agree billions of people are dead having no knowledge of Christ and therefore are in here to be thrown in the lake of fire later.
Saying God has a failure is unintentional blasphemy; a false premise. I assume you agree. You need to seek another solution. Many, many verses say people are saved by God's will and not the will of individuals (John 1:12-13 for example), thus people who died without knowledge of Christ occurs because God wills it.
God is righteous by definition. If He decides to kill every man, woman, child baby on the planet, save eight ... then He is still righteous. (aside: God did ill every man, woman, child baby on the planet, save eight. Do you call God unrighteous for the events of the Noah story?)
Aside: you should not assign your definition of righteousness when contemplating whether or not God is righteous.
If one doesn't believe God they are deceived into another outlook. God is not in the deceiving business. Nor does God tempt people to do evil.
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
So choices made fueled by inward evil desires brings judgment. People are judged by their own evil acts which stems from fault found in their own heart not Gods heart. As in the wages of sin.
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
So choices made fueled by inward evil desires brings judgment. People are judged by their own evil acts which stems from fault found in their own heart not Gods heart. As in the wages of sin.
Highway54
Member
You indicated in your posts that I am more loving than God sir, as I wouldn't torture people eternally whereas you state He will. Christians believe that God is Love, and that one of His main qualities is Justice. His word gives us His idea of justice, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for life, now that is justice is it not.
So you tell me, what sin could someone do in their short life span that would warrant such a judgment? But I will give you this sir, if God is going to torture people eternally in a lake of fire, I will be right there beside you, cursing the day that I had to be born under such a god. That would truly make satan a hero, to suffer the torture we will have to endure, to not give in to such an evil god.