Does God LOVE everybody

[JLB]

Yes exclusively. The word also doesnt change that fact, it just means as some elect were already converted and became believers, there are more to be converted and become believrs, especially among the Gentiles. Paul was sent to the Gentiles

2 Tim 1:11

Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 4:17

Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.


Salvation can’t be exclusive to the elect if Paul desires for them to ALSO obtain salvation. By saying ALSO the Holy Spirit is indicating that others beside the elect have obtained salvation.

You will have to rethink your claim of salvation being exclusive of the elect since we plainly see that Paul had to endure suffering in order for the elect to ALSO obtain salvation.


Question:

Why would Paul have to endure suffering for the elect to ALSO obtain salvation if they were already saved?

 

[JLB]

Whenever God has predetermined the time for those to be saved. No one knows that but the Lord.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The Gentiles were appointed to hear the Gospel message of salvation through Paul and became saved after they heard the word



Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:46-48



Just as the Ephesians became saved after they heard the message of Salvation from Paul.


And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Ephesians 2:1-3

• who were dead in trespasses and sins,
• in which you once walked according to the course of this world,
• according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
• among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind,
• and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Paul plainly says that these “elect” were not saved but dead in trespasses and sins.


They became saved after they heard the message of salvation through Jesus from Paul.


In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13

 

[electedbyHim]

The Gentiles were appointed to hear the Gospel message of salvation through Paul and became saved after they heard the word



Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:46-48



Just as the Ephesians became saved after they heard the message of Salvation from Paul.


And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Ephesians 2:1-3

• who were dead in trespasses and sins,
• in which you once walked according to the course of this world,
• according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
• among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind,
• and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Paul plainly says that these “elect” were not saved but dead in trespasses and sins.


They became saved after they heard the message of salvation through Jesus from Paul.


In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13

I have posted for you several time the Doctrine of election as found in the Bible, but you reject it.

Probably did not even read it, that is why we are here.

There is nothing more to disguss.

 

[electedbyHim]

The Gentiles were appointed to hear the Gospel message of salvation through Paul and became saved after they heard the word



Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us:
I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:46-48



Just as the Ephesians became saved after they heard the message of Salvation from Paul.


And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Ephesians 2:1-3

• who were dead in trespasses and sins,
• in which you once walked according to the course of this world,
• according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
• among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind,
• and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Paul plainly says that these “elect” were not saved but dead in trespasses and sins.


They became saved after they heard the message of salvation through Jesus from Paul.


In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13

The Gentiles were appointed to hear the Gospel message of salvation through Paul and became saved after they heard the word.

But they were predestined before the foundations of the earth (elected).

 

[JLB]

The Gentiles were appointed to hear the Gospel message of salvation through Paul and became saved after they heard the word.

Amen.

 

[electedbyHim]

Amen.

But they were predestined before the foundations of the earth (elected) before they heard the gospel., before they were even born.

 

[JLB]

But they were predestined before the foundations of the earth (elected) before they heard the gospel., before they were even born.

Yes predestined for purpose.


Romans 8 shows us and the them is carried through to Romans 9.


For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:29

• For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son

We are predestined to be conformed to the image of God’s Son, Jesus Christ.



In Romans 9 we see that the purpose of election for certain individuals was to be the lineage of Christ.


I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:1-5


Paul plainly calls election for God’s purpose.

• that the purpose of God according to election might stand

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:11




Elected for purpose not elected for salvation.


Salvation comes when we hear and believe the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.

Not before.

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 8:35-39


Rom 8:35-39

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now since according to the false teachers, God and Christ Loved all men without exception, and it appears that nothing can separate the objects of their Love from their Love, then all those who shall yet hear the words of Matt 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They can be assured that while they are in everlasting torment and fire, and cursed, that God and Christ still Loves them. 5

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

How so, when Paul said he suffered to see the elect also obtain salvation?

Pay attention, already answered in 398

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

The Gentiles were appointed to hear the Gospel message of salvation through Paul and became saved after they heard the word

Those gentiles of Acts 13 48 had already been appointed to eternal life prior to hearing and believing, their previous appointment by God is why they were both able to hear spiritually and believe.

One has to be of God[saved] to hear the word of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Thats why those Gentiles heard the words of God from the Apostles, they were elect and saved/regenerated

 

[electedbyHim]

Yes predestined for purpose.


Romans 8 shows us and the them is carried through to Romans 9.


For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:29

• For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son

We are predestined to be conformed to the image of God’s Son, Jesus Christ.



In Romans 9 we see that the purpose of election for certain individuals was to be the lineage of Christ.


I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:1-5


Paul plainly calls election for God’s purpose.

• that the purpose of God according to election might stand

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:11




Elected for purpose not elected for salvation.


Salvation comes when we hear and believe the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.

Not before.

You deny Scripture as many have given you.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[electedbyHim]

JLB



Those gentiles of Acts 13 48 had already been appointed to eternal life prior to hearing and believing, their previous appointment by God is why they were both able to hear spiritually and believe.

One has to be of God[saved] to hear the word of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Thats why those Gentiles heard the words of God from the Apostles, they were elect and saved/regenerated

Excellent.

 

[JLB]

You act like you are mindless, see post 398

Sorry, but you will have to do better than insult me.

We gain understanding through reading and believing the scriptures, not trying make the scriptures say something they don’t.


Salvation comes when we hear and believe the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.

Not before.

 

[JLB]

You deny Scripture as many have given you.

Grace and peace to you.

JLB



Those gentiles of Acts 13 48 had already been appointed to eternal life prior to hearing and believing, their previous appointment by God is why they were both able to hear spiritually and believe.

One has to be of God[saved] to hear the word of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Thats why those Gentiles heard the words of God from the Apostles, they were elect and saved/regenerated

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10

Paul said he suffered to see the elect also obtain salvation?


Question:

Why would Paul have to endure suffering for the elect to ALSO obtain salvation if they were already saved?

 

[brightfame52]

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10

Paul said he suffered to see the elect also obtain salvation?


Question:

Why would Paul have to endure suffering for the elect to ALSO obtain salvation if they were already saved?

You act like you are mindless, see post 398

 

[tdidymas]

My answer is always the same.

No one from the TULIP camp has gotten past John 3:16


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


Jesus said God loves the world.

Jesus said God sent His Son so the world through Him might be saved.


This is the truth.






JLB

I did answer, but you didn't accept it.
You only answer what is convenient for you.
You can't deal with the question: is grace merited or unmerited?

My whole point is that God does not love everyone the same, as you claim.
But since every time I prove my point, you keep asking the same question that has already been answered, it appears you just want to argue. I'm done with you.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

fwiw, there are some He has no benevolence for. Search Scripture cover to cover and see God State who He hates.

Passages such as John 3:16 show that God as the Creator of all humans has universal love for all humans in keeping them alive, for example.

However, the Bible is also clear that he has a special love for true believers so that he rescued them through Jesus' life, death, and resurrection. His love is both tender and tough, the latter when he disciplines believers (Hebrews 12).

 

[JLB]

You deny Scripture as many have given you.

Grace and peace to you.

Sorry but I have listed the scriptures to back up my point of view.


You have not addressed the scriptures I presented nor have you listed one single scripture that says God elects people for salvation and elects others for eternal damnation.


God loves the world, and sent His Son so that through Him the world might be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


Nowhere in scripture does it say that God hates the world and chose certain people in the world to suffer eternal damnation.

 

[electedbyHim]

Sorry but I have listed the scriptures to back up my point of view.


You have not addressed the scriptures I presented nor have you listed one single scripture that says God elects people for salvation and elects others for eternal damnation.


God loves the world, and sent His Son so that through Him the world might be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


Nowhere in scripture does it say that God hates the world and chose certain people in the world to suffer eternal damnation.

Rightly you stated:

my point of view

And you are allowed to have your own view.

 

[brightfame52]

Why God hates some !


Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Mal 1:2-3

2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

3And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

One of the main reasons why God hates some is to manifest more clearly the Love that He does have for the ones He does Love. God's Love is not properly perceived, if it is not seen from the background of others that He hates ! That is God's point in Mal 1:2-3 ! They were both brothers, both sinners, yet God only Loved Jacob !

1 Jn 3:16

Hereby perceive we[Believers] the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 5