Does God LOVE everybody

[JLB]

You can't deal with the question: is grace merited or unmerited?

This is the first time seeing this question.

Is grace merited or unmerited?

Define grace so I know what you mean.

Please share the scripture that teaches us about grace being merited.


Grace is the God given ability given to a person to enable them to do what they can not do on their own without it.


Grace simply put is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29


Grace teaches us. Grace empowers us.


Grace, like truth, is something and Someone.


Isn’t the “formal” definition of grace unmerited favor?


How then does someone merit grace? I will wait and see what scripture you present for understanding.


Well here is the requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace -


And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him. Acts 5:32


Here is the requirement for receiving eternal salvation -


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

 

[JLB]

Rightly you stated:



And you are allowed to have your own view.

Yes everyone has a point of view.


Only those whose point of view is grounded in the scripture and enlightened by the Spirit of truth are worth aligning with.

 

[JLB]

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God preferred Jacob over Esau to be the bloodline lineage of Christ.


The election was for that purpose. That’s the context of Romans 9.



Do you hate your family?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

 

[brightfame52]

God preferred Jacob over Esau to be the bloodline lineage of Christ.


The election was for that purpose. That’s the context of Romans 9.



Do you hate your family?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

False teaching

 

[JLB]

False teaching

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:1-5

• of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came

The biblical context of Romans 9 is election according to purpose.


And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:10-11


Isaac was elected over Ismael to be the bloodline lineage of Christ.



You should try reading the context of a passage before you post little snippets out of context to attempt to validate the teachings of man; Calvinism.

 

[brightfame52]

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:1-5

• of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came

The biblical context of Romans 9 is election according to purpose.


And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:10-11


Isaac was elected over Ismael to be the bloodline lineage of Christ.



You should try reading the context of a passage before you post little snippets out of context to attempt to validate the teachings of man; Calvinism.

More false teaching

 

[tdidymas]

This is the first time seeing this question.

Is grace merited or unmerited?

Define grace so I know what you mean.

Please share the scripture that teaches us about grace being merited.


Grace is the God given ability given to a person to enable them to do what they can not do on their own without it.


Grace simply put is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29


Grace teaches us. Grace empowers us.


Grace, like truth, is something and Someone.


Isn’t the “formal” definition of grace unmerited favor?


How then does someone merit grace? I will wait and see what scripture you present for understanding.


Well here is the requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace -


And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him. Acts 5:32


Here is the requirement for receiving eternal salvation -


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

This is the first time seeing this question.

Is grace merited or unmerited?

Because you haven't been reading my posts: https://christianforums.net/threads/does-god-love-everybody.110499/page-20#post-1927583

Define grace so I know what you mean.

I define it the same as the apostle Paul: Eph. 2:5
So how do you define it?

Please share the scripture that teaches us about grace being merited.

Why don't you just answer the question? Do you think grace is merited?

Grace is the God given ability given to a person to enable them to do what they can not do on their own without it.

So you believe it is unmerited?

Grace simply put is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29


Grace teaches us. Grace empowers us.


Grace, like truth, is something and Someone.


Isn’t the “formal” definition of grace unmerited favor?

So if it's unmerited, then how does one obtain it?

How then does someone merit grace? I will wait and see what scripture you present for understanding.

If everyone is loved exactly the same by God as you claim, then how does one obtain unmerited grace?

Well here is the requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace -


And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him. Acts 5:32

Ok, so by this response, it appears you believe grace is merited by obedience to God, correct?

Here is the requirement for receiving eternal salvation -


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

So you believe that once you obey God, then God decides you are worthy of eternal salvation, correct?

 

[brightfame52]

Jn 6:44-45

If God Loved all men without exception, then all men without exception shall come to Christ ! Which we know is not true See Jn 5:40

Jn 6:44-45

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Now lets compare Ps 94:12 and Jn 6:45

Ps 94:12

12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

Now whom God Loveth, He chasteneth Heb 12:6

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Now who the Lord Loveth, He chastens and teaches out of His Law ! And those so blessed, come to Christ, for they are Sons or Children.

Now all that are taught of God and learned comes to Christ Jn 6:44-45.

So if all men without exception do not come to Christ [believe in Him] then scripture testimony is false. God teaches men the Law when He as promised, puts it into their hearts at regeneration or New Birth Jer 31:33

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. See also Heb 8:10;10:16.

Now scripture gives only one particular seed that God promises to chasten, and that is the seed of David, a Type of Christ Ps 89:29-32 and not everyone in the world without exception, the seed of David is the same as the seed of Abraham, which means God's Elect ! 5

 

[JLB]

More false teaching

It stands to reason that you reject scripture as false teaching while at the same time promoting the doctrine of Calvinism.

This is the consistent pattern of those who are indoctrinated with the teachings of man.




JLB

 

[JLB]

I define it the same as the apostle Paul: Eph. 2:5

Please write out your definition so I can see what you yourself mean.

So how do you define it?

I plainly defined it in my last post.

Grace is the God given ability given to a person to enable them to do what they can not do on their own without it.


Grace simply put is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29

Merry Christmas to you and blessings upon your household.

 

[brightfame52]

It stands to reason that you reject scripture as false teaching while at the same time promoting the doctrine of Calvinism.

This is the consistent pattern of those who are indoctrinated with the teachings of man.




JLB

I reject your God dishonoring false teaching

 

[electedbyHim]

It stands to reason that you reject scripture as false teaching while at the same time promoting the doctrine of Calvinism.

This is the consistent pattern of those who are indoctrinated with the teachings of man.




JLB

But aren't your "interpretations" of the Bible, teachings of man?

 

[tdidymas]

Please write out your definition so I can see what you yourself mean.

Are you so lazy you can't look at the reference?
"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)"

But just in case you can't understand what Paul is saying: grace is God's action to raise whoever He wants from spiritual death to spiritual life and place us in Christ. This is how Paul defines grace in this statement. And it is motivated by God's love for the person He elects to adopt as His own child - Eph. 1:5, 2:4.

According to this, it is not possible that God loves everyone the same, otherwise He would act this way toward everyone. And we know He doesn't.

But let's just say for argument that God does love everyone the same. Then, since God does NOT do this for everyone but only some, it would have to mean that those He does this for is motivated by one or the other:
1. Random chance, or
2. They somehow merit this action

So then, we are left with 3 doctrinal choices, if we are to think reasonably concerning this doctrine of grace:
1. God elects by random chance (we know this is not true)
2. God elects by a merited action of those He initiates a grace relationship
3. God does not love everyone the same

Which one is it for you?

I plainly defined it in my last post.




Merry Christmas to you and blessings upon your household.

Thank you for the greeting, and same to you.

 

[JLB]

But aren't your "interpretations" of the Bible, teachings of man?

I don’t “interpret” the scriptures as a “private interpretation” but believe what the scriptures teach in a straight forward and plain and clear way, while considering the context.


When posting I list the actual scripture, and often bullet point the phrase within the passage that makes the point, and I also bold and use red to punctuate the word that stands out in the verse.


I take the time to emphasize what the scriptures teach because I love and fear the Lord, and love His people and desire to only teach within the framework of the doctrine of Christ to try and have a truthful and meaningful discussion that centers and emphasizes the truth of the scriptures.

I know I will be held accountable for what I teach, and therefore I want to maintain a sober mindset.

I would never want to mislead even one person in any way concerning the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


I lay hold to the truth of this verse and apply it to myself.

 

[JLB]

Are you so lazy you can't look at the reference?
"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)"

Yes grace is used in this verse but you have not defined grace.

 

[JLB]

So then, we are left with 3 doctrinal choices, if we are to think reasonably concerning this doctrine of grace:
1. God elects by random chance (we know this is not true)
2. God elects by a merited action of those He initiates a grace relationship
3. God does not love everyone the same

Which one is it for you?

None of these questions are derived from scripture.

They come from a belief system within your mind that is not based in scripture.

Here is an example of a question that is framed from scripture -

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:16-17

• For God so loved the world

Who in the world is excluded from God’s love based on this scripture?

Everyone?
No one?
Some people?


My answer is no one is excluded from God’s love.

• For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Who in the world is excluded from God’s plan to save the people of the world based on this scripture?

Everyone?
No one?
Some people?


My answer Is no one is excluded from God’s plan of salvation for the world based on this scripture.





JLB

 

[Whatever]

• For God so loved the world

Who in the world is excluded from God’s love based on this scripture?

Those who don't believe. The wrath of God abides on them.

Good News Translation
John 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

See that "so that" there"? It is telling us the reason why He sent His Son.
so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

John_3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Same answer to your second question.

 

[electedbyHim]

I don’t “interpret” the scriptures as a “private interpretation” but believe what the scriptures teach in a straight forward and plain and clear way, while considering the context.


When posting I list the actual scripture, and often bullet point the phrase within the passage that makes the point, and I also bold and use red to punctuate the word that stands out in the verse.


I take the time to emphasize what the scriptures teach because I love and fear the Lord, and love His people and desire to only teach within the framework of the doctrine of Christ to try and have a truthful and meaningful discussion that centers and emphasizes the truth of the scriptures.

I know I will be held accountable for what I teach, and therefore I want to maintain a sober mindset.

I would never want to mislead even one person in any way concerning the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


I lay hold to the truth of this verse and apply it to myself.

But you call Calvinism as doctrines of men.

The 5 points were in the Bible way before it was made popular by Calvin.

In fact, if you study systematic theology, these doctrines and many more are clearly visible in the Bible.

Systematic theology is a discipline of Christian theology that aims to formulate a logical, coherent, and orderly account of the Christian faith’s various doctrines. It involves organizing the teachings of the Bible into categorical systems, examining the relationships between them, and drawing conclusions about the nature of God, humanity, salvation, and the world.

Key Characteristics:​

1. Systematic approach: Systematic theology divides Christian doctrine into distinct areas, such as God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, salvation, the church, and eschatology (the study of the end times).
2. Logical order: Theologians arrange these areas in a logical sequence, often starting with fundamental principles, such as the doctrine of God or Scripture.
3. Biblical foundation: Systematic theology builds on the core sacred texts of Christianity, while also considering the development of Christian doctrine throughout history.
4. Interdisciplinary approach: It draws on biblical disciplines, church history, philosophy, ethics, social sciences, and natural sciences to provide a comprehensive understanding of Christian doctrine.
5. Goal: The purpose of systematic theology is to strengthen faith and godliness (1 Timothy 1:4-5) by providing a clear and consistent explanation of Christian doctrine.

 

[JLB]

Those who don't believe. The wrath of God abides on them.

Good News Translation
John 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

See that "so that" there"? It is telling us the reason why He sent His Son.
so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

John_3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Same answer to your second question.

When you begin to study the scriptures, you will find that the biblical word believe carries the idea of commit, trust and obey.

We see different translations render the word believe as obey.

Also unbelief and disobedience are used interchangeably as well.


Take John 3:36 for example:

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36 NASB


In Hebrews we see the condition for receiving eternal life -


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9





JLB

 

[JLB]

But you call Calvinism as doctrines of men.

Yes it’s the doctrine of John Calvin.

Those who follow John Calvin follow the teachings of John Calvin.

Those who follow Jesus follow His doctrine.

Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Timothy 4:16

• for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

JLB