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DOES GOD LOVE THE SINNER brought over from the WBC thread

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Drew said:
1. I think it is clear from context that Jesus is instructing us to love our human enemies;

2. Once we commit to the notion that its acceptable to "hate", we start down a very dangerous path. A hateful attitude is difficult to "compartmentalize" - it is not easy to keep hate targeted at what might be a legitimate object for that hate. I do not have the time or the background to make the case, but I suggest that cultivating an attitude of hatred towards any target poisons one's personality and is harmful;

3. You have not really engaged the point about Jesus instructing us to love our enemies. Do you believe that God want us to love our enemies, yet He (God) gets a "pass" on this principle and is "allowed" to hate some people?
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Did I say anywhere in any of my posts that we are to hate anyone? How did you even conclude that?

Is it hard for you to digest the truth that God Hates sinners?
 
Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

felix said:
Did I say anywhere in any of my posts that we are to hate anyone? How did you even conclude that?

Is it hard for you to digest the truth that God Hates sinners?
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Surely that means God hates every single person on the face of the planet including you.....unless he loves us as well which is why Jesus died to take the punishment meant for us onto himself. But how do you hate someone and love them at the same time? Perhaps he loves but hates what we do when it is in violation of him......but that means making a distinction between person and action.....
 
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Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

felix said:
Is it hard for you to digest the truth that God Hates sinners?
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I see no evidence for this assertion that God hates sinners. I do not have time now to respond to your latest set of posts. Maybe later.
 
Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Felix i am sorry you believe God hats you. What a sad way to live... I accept that i am a sinner saved by the Grace of the most Merciful loving God. He cares so much for me He sent His Son to be the sacrifice in my place.

You can know Him also. He forgives
 
Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Grazer said:
Surely that means God hates every single person on the face of the planet including you.....unless he loves us as well which is why Jesus died to take the punishment meant for us onto himself. But how do you hate someone and love them at the same time? Perhaps he loves but hates what we do when it is in violation of him......but that means making a distinction between person and action.....
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(John 3:18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

reba said:
Felix i am sorry you believe God hats you. What a sad way to live... I accept that i am a sinner saved by the Grace of the most Merciful loving God. He cares so much for me He sent His Son to be the sacrifice in my place.

You can know Him also. He forgives
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So, He hasn't forgiven your sins? Are you still living as a sinner? Or His Blood is not enough to wash you completely?

(Heb 10:26-31) For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So, you insult the grace of God by sinning daily?
 
Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

felix said:
(John 3:18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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But that's not the point. You are not condemned but you are a sinner and you said God hates sinners. It just means you won't get the punishment that is owed to you but God still hates you (by your own argument) But if he hates you, why did he send his only son to take the punishment that was owed to you? Why did he do that for every single person? Love, because he loves you and even though he hates what you do, he loves you.

felix said:
So, you insult the grace of God by sinning daily?
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Do you? Does being saved mean you're perfect? Does it mean you are no longer a sinner?
I'm being reminded of the tax collector who went to a temple:

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” - Luke 18:12-14
 
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Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

In one of the Psalms, the writer appeals to God to "dash the heads of the enemy's infants on the rocks".

Does this mean that God would consider doing such a thing?

I believe not: This is a highly literary way of expressing a desire for justice. I politely suggest that it would be a huge mistake to think that God is sitting around waiting for some reason to visit violence on anybody.

All sorts of literary devices appear in the Bible - metaphor, allegory, etc. However, I believe the broad picture is clear: God loves His creation, and is seeking to redeem and restore it.

Here is the sinister side of buying into the "God hates" line of thinking. Consider our "friends" at the Westboro church: They are, I propose, clearly using "God hates" imagery as a means of justifying a deeply unhealthy hatred they nurse and cultivate toward certain groups.

If you see the world in terms of a good "us" and an evil "them", it is perhaps all too easy to seek (and find) Biblical texts that appear to support this deeply unhealthy, tribalistic means of looking at the world.
 
Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

reba said:
:rollingpin
Pizza you looking for trouble?
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Too much rain this weekend, didn't get enough excitement. ;)

grazer posts: ...But if he hates you, why did he send his only son to take the punishment that was owed to you? Why did he do that for every single person? Love, because he loves you and even though he hates what you do, he loves you.
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Just like in John 3:16
 
Grazer, tell me one verse where it says God loves the sinners who are not justified and and not saved from his wrath?
 
Alexlove, Bible is not written by Americans but prophets from middle wast.
 
No trouble at all. He thinks Bible is written by Americans and a book from America
 
In the same verse John 3:16, God will not save all those who dont believe. Read properly.
 
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Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

felix said:
So, who is the patient and who is the cancer?
Ah yes! The patient is Israel and the cancer is the children of Amalek. Isn't it?
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You are begging the question. You cannot simply assume the very thing that you need to make an actual case for.

My point was simply this: Just as a doctor commits violence with no hate, so God, likewise, may be undertaking a violent action, but not out of hate.

felix said:
No! No! Scripture is very clear. Is it a punishment.

(1Sam 15:2) "Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'I will punish Amalek [for] what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt.
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Even if this is "punishment" in the sense we normally mean, this does not connote hate necessarily.

In any event, I have serious doubts that the term "punish" is meant to be taken in the sense that the word is used in the 21st century west. I really do not have the time to get into the details now, but I speculate a case can be made that we are to read "punish" more as "cleanse", or something similar.

The reason I say this is by analogy to the Cross. Against tradition, I hold the view that Jesus was not punished at the cross, even though some of the Bible language may, on the surface, support such a reading. Instead, He functioned as the vessel for sin and it was sin that was punished, if you want to think in those terms. Romans 8:3 makes this point.
 
Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Drew said:
You are begging the question. You cannot simply assume the very thing that you need to make an actual case for.

My point was simply this: Just as a doctor commits violence with no hate, so God, likewise, may be undertaking a violent action, but not out of hate.
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I am hearing a new thing! A doctor commits violence towards a patient! Wow!
Do you call treating patients as violence?

Drew said:
Even if this is "punishment" in the sense we normally mean, this does not connote hate necessarily.
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Of course out of love He makes sinners burn in hell forever because some Christians do not think God punishes sinners in hell out of hate but out of love.

(John 3:36) "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Drew said:
In any event, I have serious doubts that the term "punish" is meant to be taken in the sense that the word is used in the 21st century west. I really do not have the time to get into the details now, but I speculate a case can be made that we are to read "punish" more as "cleanse", or something similar.
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Does your Bible written by Western prophets call punish as cleanse? May be God is cleaning hell. Wow! Is this Drew's doctrine of the West?

Drew said:
The reason I say this is by analogy to the Cross. Against tradition, I hold the view that Jesus was not punished at the cross, even though some of the Bible language may, on the surface, support such a reading. Instead, He functioned as the vessel for sin and it was sin that was punished, if you want to think in those terms. Romans 8:3 makes this point.
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Wasn't Christ who is sinless hanging on the cross in our place for our sins taking Himself our punishment?

(Isa 53:5) But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.

(2Cor 5:21) For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
 
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