DOES GOD LOVE THE SINNER brought over from the WBC thread

[tandemcpl]

Good morning tandemcpl,


My point is many who object to WBC also defend fornication.

If the many you refer to are those in the natural world, than yes it is possible.
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If the many you refer to are Christians, than no.
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But the sins of those in the natural world don’t matter much anyway because they are not doomed to destruction for their sin, but because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior.
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Moderators: If this is getting to far from the OP please feel free to move it to its own thread.
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Be blessed.
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Toby<O:p</O:p

 

[alexlove]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Just because you reject WBC way of doing things doesnt mean you support gays. you probably just think there is a better way to getting to people.

i mean i surely hope no one would stand on the side of the street with signs saying God hates Atheists. because he doesnt hate anyone. he doesnt hate the US he doesnt hate "fags" he doesnt hate troops. there message is blasphemous

 

[felix]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

.. because he doesnt hate anyone. he doesnt hate the US he doesnt hate "fags" he doesnt hate troops. there message is blasphemous

Yes. God hates! The message they give and warn is good which only a few boldly give, but the method they use is wrong.

If you aren't sure where to start looking in the Bible, just start with post #23

If someone say God doesn't hate, either s/he is not referring to God of the Bible or s/he doesn't know the Bible.

 

[Grazer]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Yes. God hates! The message they give and warn is good which only a few boldly give, but the method they use is wrong.

If you aren't sure where to start looking in the Bible, just start with post #23

If someone say God doesn't hate, either s/he is not referring to God of the Bible or s/he doesn't know the Bible.

Thing is Felix, God hates sin but loves everyone. As AlexBC said, God doesn't hate anyone but that's not the same as saying God doesn't hate at all.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Just because you reject WBC way of doing things doesnt mean you support gays. you probably just think there is a better way to getting to people.

i mean i surely hope no one would stand on the side of the street with signs saying God hates Atheists. because he doesnt hate anyone. he doesnt hate the US he doesnt hate "fags" he doesnt hate troops. there message is blasphemous

There are places in the Old Testament where it sure looks like God hated certain people. However since Christ came, I don't see any hate in God at all.

Grace is the message of the New Testament.

The message WBC is sending is not one of love or grace, it is simply arrogant, prideful and I must say, hateful.

 

[felix]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Thing is Felix, God hates sin but loves everyone. As AlexBC said, God doesn't hate anyone but that's not the same as saying God doesn't hate at all.

Then please address post #23 based on Scripture.

However since Christ came, I don't see any hate in God at all.

Then please address post #23 based on Scripture.

Oh.. sorry, I wasn't referring to the puppy little (another) Jesus who always loves and cannot hate.

 

[alexlove]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Yes. God hates! The message they give and warn is good which only a few boldly give, but the method they use is wrong.

If you aren't sure where to start looking in the Bible, just start with post #23

If someone say God doesn't hate, either s/he is not referring to God of the Bible or s/he doesn't know the Bible.

i have read the Bible, my understanding is he hates the sin not the sinner.
i re read post 23 and no he doesnt hate anyone. you clearly are misinterpreting the Bible or what im saying. yes he hates but he doesnt hate any specific person

 

[felix]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

i have read the Bible, my understanding is he hates the sin not the sinner.

Did you by any chance closed your eyes and torn the pages of Scripture verses which I mentioned in post # 23 and said Amen?

 

[alexlove]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

There are places in the Old Testament where it sure looks like God hated certain people. However since Christ came, I don't see any hate in God at all.

Grace is the message of the New Testament.

The message WBC is sending is not one of love or grace, it is simply arrogant, prideful and I must say, hateful.

agreed, there are a few parts where it sure looks like he does and i agree with second part as well, i dont see any hate from Christ at all.

 

[alexlove]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Did you by any chance closed your eyes and torn the pages of Scripture verses which I mentioned in post # 23 and said Amen?

again no. im just going to agree to disagree.
The God i know doesnt hate anyone. sure he hates there actions but not the people themselves.

 

[felix]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

again no. im just going to agree to disagree.
The God i know doesnt hate anyone. sure he hates there actions but not the people themselves.

Ah Yes. I know that puppy little (another) Jesus who always loves and doesn't know to hate. That's the new idol created by modern Christians who want a ever loving Jesus for themselves - So they created one!

But the true Christ who I worship will

• will feed the birds with human flesh (Rev 19:17-18)
• will curse cities and towns (Luke 10:13)
• will make the body feed with worms (Acts 12:23)
• destroys fornicators (1Cor 3:16-17)
• who hates people (Rom 9:13)
• kill children (Rev 2:21-23)
• vomit them (Rev 3:15-16)

 

[Grazer]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Ah Yes. I know that puppy little (another) Jesus who always loves and doesn't know to hate. That's the new idol created by modern Christians who want a ever loving Jesus for themselves - So they created one!

But the true Christ who I worship will

• will feed the birds with human flesh (Rev 19:17-18)
• will curse cities and towns (Luke 10:13)
• will make the body feed with worms (Acts 12:23)
• destroys fornicators (1Cor 3:16-17)
• who hates people (Rom 9:13)
• kill children (Rev 2:21-23)
• vomit them (Rev 3:15-16)

And the one in bold doesn't cause you to at least pause and think for a second?

 

[felix]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

And the one in bold doesn't cause you to at least pause and think for a second?

Nope!

Because, it is the SAME God who instructed Israel to kill children of Amalek as in 1 Sam 15:3.

 

[Grazer]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Nope!

Because, it is the SAME God who instructed Israel to kill children of Amalek as in 1 Sam 15:3.

I'm not referring to the fact it appears in Revelation, I'm referring to the fact that it appears at all. God killing children himself or instructing others to kill children, allowing children to be taken as "spoils of war" It may not make you pause and think but it certainly does me

 

[felix]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

I'm not referring to the fact it appears in Revelation, I'm referring to the fact that it appears at all. God killing children himself or instructing others to kill children, allowing children to be taken as "spoils of war" It may not make you pause and think but it certainly does me

The verses itself is a witness for the truth of who God will do them. It is a warning to sinners.

 

[Drew]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Do Christians have these verses in their Bible? Of they have torn them?....

These texts do not necessarily support the notion that God "hates" any human being.

Here is the fundamental problem (pun intended): The "fundamentalist" movement has taken an overly simplistic, overly literalistic approach to the scriptures.

We are not fools! Of course, there are many texts which, if taken literally, suggest that God is in the business of hating some human beings. But, I suggest that given the broad sweep of Scripture, and not least Jesus' teaching to, yes, love all your enemies, we have to conclude that statements about God "hating" people are really literary devices to make a point.

Let me ask the reader this question: If Jesus instructs us to love even our worst enemy, how is it that His own Father does not live up to the same standard?

The point is that God the Father indeed loves all humanity - the statements about "hate" are poetic devices intended to emphasize God's moral outrage at certain events and behaviours.
I see no way to conclude otherwise, especially in light of what Jesus tells us.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

These texts do not necessarily support the notion that God "hates" any human being.

Here is the fundamental problem (pun intended): The "fundamentalist" movement has taken an overly simplistic, overly literalistic approach to the scriptures.

I consider myself a fundamentalist (to an extent) and even I agree with this.

We are not fools! Of course, there are many texts which, if taken literally, suggest that God is in the business of hating some human beings. But, I suggest that given the broad sweep of Scripture, and not least Jesus' teaching to, yes, love all your enemies, we have to conclude that statements about God "hating" people are really literary devices to make a point.

Let me ask the reader this question: If Jesus instructs us to love even our worst enemy, how is it that His own Father does not live up to the same standard?

The point is that God the Father indeed loves all humanity - the statements about "hate" are poetic devices intended to emphasize God's moral outrage at certain events and behaviors.
I see no way to conclude otherwise, especially in light of what Jesus tells us.

Nothing to argue with there. Emphasis mine, of course.

 

[Drew]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Nope!

Because, it is the SAME God who instructed Israel to kill children of Amalek as in 1 Sam 15:3.

Let's be clear: Just because God issues such a genocidal instruction does not necessarily mean that He hates the children of Amalek.

When a doctor commits the arguably violent act of carving out the kidney of some cancer patient, can we conclude that that doctor "hates" the patient? Of course not - the doctor has to cut out the kidney to save the patient's life.

It is at least conceivable that God orders the genocide of the Amalekites because He has no choice but to do this in order to complete His broad plan of redemption.

Of course, on such a view, God is not "all powerful". Well, I suggest this notion of God being able to do whatever He wants to do is really a "Sunday School" idea that cannot be strongly supported Biblically.

 

[Drew]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

1. I think it is clear from context that Jesus is instructing us to love our human enemies;

2. Once we commit to the notion that its acceptable to "hate", we start down a very dangerous path. A hateful attitude is difficult to "compartmentalize" - it is not easy to keep hate targeted at what might be a legitimate object for that hate. I do not have the time or the background to make the case, but I suggest that cultivating an attitude of hatred towards any target poisons one's personality and is harmful;

3. You have not really engaged the point about Jesus instructing us to love our enemies. Do you believe that God want us to love our enemies, yet He (God) gets a "pass" on this principle and is "allowed" to hate some people?

 

[felix]

Re: Westboro Baptist Church Music Video

Let's be clear: Just because God issues such a genocidal instruction does not necessarily mean that He hates the children of Amalek.

Of course it is an act of love. Isn't it?

When a doctor commits the arguably violent act of carving out the kidney of some cancer patient, can we conclude that that doctor "hates" the patient? Of course not - the doctor has to cut out the kidney to save the patient's life.

So, who is the patient and who is the cancer?
Ah yes! The patient is Israel and the cancer is the children of Amalek. Isn't it?

It is at least conceivable that God orders the genocide of the Amalekites because He has no choice but to do this in order to complete His broad plan of redemption.

No! No! Scripture is very clear. Is it a punishment.

(1Sam 15:2) "Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'I will punish Amalek [for] what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt.

Of course out of love ... Isn't it?

(Exod 17:14) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this [for] a memorial in the book and recount [it] in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven."

Of course, on such a view, God is not "all powerful". Well, I suggest this notion of God being able to do whatever He wants to do is really a "Sunday School" idea that cannot be strongly supported Biblically.

Oh really? which Bible are you using? Have you ever read that all these are punishments for their actions? Even so will the Lord will do until every human on earth.