'stovebolts' said:
Hello Javier.
Just a quick note. The bible says, "Baptism now saves". This needs to be taken in context as it relates to many things. I'll explain more on 1 Peter come monday as I only have a few moment.
As I sat in the church service this morning I was thinking reminded about this thread. Today we had our communion service and we had a baptism service as well. I lost track at 20 people who got baptized. I am guessing it was 30 0r so. What an awsesome morning so far.
Francis
I agree with what you have said so far.
Jeff, I even think we will be on the same page as I explain my position on baptism..
As I explained in my earlier long post what the passage in 1 Peter means and I alluded to it a little when I said and I will quote myself ''Actually, there is a baptism which saves usâ€â€not our baptism in water, but a baptism which took place at Calvary almost 2000 years ago. Christ’s death was a baptism. He was baptized in the waters of judgment. This is what He meant when He said, “I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!†(Luke 12:50). The psalmist described this baptism in the words, “Deep calls unto deep at the noise of Your waterfalls; all Your waves and billows have gone over me†(Ps. 42:7). In His death, Christ was baptized in the waves and billows of God’s wrath, and it is this baptism that is the basis for our salvation.
But we must accept His death for ourselves. Just as Noah and his family had to enter the ark to be saved, so we must commit ourselves to the Lord as our only Savior. When we do this, we become identified with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection.
In a very real sense, we then have been crucified with Him (Gal. 2:20), we have been buried with Him (Rom. 6:4), and we have been brought from death to life with Him (Rom. 6:4).
All this is pictured in the believer’s baptism. The ceremony is an outward sign of what has taken place spiritually; we have been baptized into Christ’s death. As we go under the water, we acknowledge that we have been buried with Him. As we come up out of the water, we show that we have risen with Him and want to walk in newness of life. But this is a ceremony and thats basically it. If we do not attend the ceremony, we are still saved.. We may miss out on the blessing, But we are still saved.''
So Now I will elaborate a little bit more.
So for the sake of context lets look at Romans 5:20-Romans 6:4
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
It will help us to follow Paul’s argument in chapter 6 if we understand the difference between the believer’s position and his practice. His position is his standing in Christ. His practice is what he is or should be in everyday life.
Grace puts us into the position, then teaches us to walk worthy of it. Our position is absolutely perfect because we are in Christ. Our practice should increasingly correspond to our position. It never will correspond perfectly until we see the Savior in heaven, but we should be becoming more and more conformed to His image in the meantime.
Paul first sets forth the truth of our identification with Christ in death and resurrection, and then exhorts us to live in the light of this great truth.
The Jewish objector comes forward with what he thinks is a clinching argument. If the gospel of grace teaches that man’s sin provides for an even greater display of God’s grace, then doesn’t it suggest that we should continue in sin that grace may be all the more abundant?
A modern version of this argument is as follows: “You say that men are saved by grace through faith, apart from the law. But if all you have to do to be saved is believe, then you could go out and live in sin.†According to this argument, grace is not a sufficient motivation for holy living. You must put people under the restraints of the law.
It has been helpfully suggested that there are four answers in the chapter to the initial question, Shall we continue in sin?
1. You cannot, because you are united to Christ. Reasoning (vv. 1–11).
2. You need not, because sin’s dominion has been broken by grace. Appealing (vv. 12–14).
3. You must not, because it would bring sin in again as your master. Commanding (vv. 15–19).
4. You had better not, for it would end in disaster. Warning (vv. 20–23)
Paul’s first answer, then, is that we cannot continue in sin because we have died to sin. This is a positional truth. When Jesus died to sin, He died as our Representative. He died not only as our Substituteâ€â€that is, for us or in our placeâ€â€but He also died as our Representativeâ€â€that is, as us. Therefore, when He died, we died. He died to the whole question of sin, settling it once and for all. All those who are in Christ are seen by God as having died to sin.
This does not mean that the believer is sinless. It means that he is identified with Christ in His death, and in all that His death means.
The first key word in Paul’s presentation is KNOW. Here he introduces the subject of baptism to show that it is morally incongruous for believers to go on in sin. But the question immediately arises, “To which baptism is he referring?â€Â
When a person is saved, he is baptized into Christ Jesus in the sense that he is identified with Christ in His death and resurrection.
When Paul speaks of baptism here, he is thinking both of our spiritual identification with Christ and of its portrayal in water baptism. But as the argument advances, he seems to shift his emphasis in a special way to water baptism as he reminds his readers how they were “buried†and “planted together†in the “likeness†of Christ’s death.
Water baptism gives a visual demonstration of baptism into Christ. It pictures the believer being immersed in death’s dark waters (in the person of the Lord Jesus), and it pictures the new man in Christ rising to walk in newness of life. There is a sense in which a believer attends the funeral of his old self when he is baptized. As he goes under the water he is saying, “All that I was as a sinful son of Adam was put to death at the cross.†As he comes up out of the water he is saying, “It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me†(see Gal. 2:20).
Paul moves on to state that the resurrection of Christ makes it possible for us to walk in newness of life. He states that Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father. This simply means that all the divine perfections of Godâ€â€His righteousness, love, justice, etc.â€â€demanded that He raise the Lord. In view of the excellence of the Person of the Savior, it would not have been consistent with God’s character to leave the Savior in the tomb. God did raise Him, and because we are identified with Christ in His resurrection, we can and should walk in newness of life.
So in my closing arguments and as francis pointed out. There is no conflict in what Peter and paul both said.
It is necessary to be baptized into Christ for salvation as this baptism will save you, but baptism by water is not the same and its not necessary although commanded by scripture to do it., but it will not save you. The thief on the cross was baptized into Jesus Christ, but not by water...
Whewwwwooooo
I hope this makes sense.
