Does it really mean this in Matt 26:28 ???

[dan p]

Hi to all , and v28 says , For this is My blood of the New Covenant , which is shed FOR MANY for the remission of sins . I no that there are many other topics in verses 28 and 29 , concerning the Passover , New Covenant , and drink again , and the Kingdom or the Millennium .

#1 , Why did Jesus die " for MANY " ????

#2 , I thought , He died for the world ???

#3 , I believe that He DID DIE for the world , but Jesus said He died for MANY !!!! right ???

#4 So , what does MANY , mean , 10 Jews ???

#5 , Maybe 1000 Jews , because that is the Context , right ????

#6 , 100,000 Jews ????

#7 , Since we know that Christ died for the world , why did He use the word MANY , HERE ????

 

[veteran]

That Greek word for "many" is translated as 'great', 'many', 'abundant', etc., in the New Testament. If He died for ALL in the absolute sense that would mean even Satan could be saved, but that's not the case, for He died on the cross to defeat the devil and the power of death (Hebrews 2). Further, we know many will also refuse Him and His Salvation, though only Satan and his angels have been judged and sentenced to perish.

 

[glorydaz]

I agree with Veteran....while Jesus died for all, not all will believe and partake of the benefits.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The good tidings of great joy were for all...

And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

I found it interesting that even Calvin sees this.

God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, but the ingratitude of the world is the reason why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few. Although this joy is confined to a few persons, yet, with respect to God, it is said to be common. When the angel says that this joy shall be to all the people, he speaks of the chosen people only; but now that ‘the middle wall of partition’ (Eph. 2:14) has been thrown down, the same passage has reference to the whole human race" (Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke by John Calvin, vol. I, Baker Book House reprint, 1979, pp. 115-116).

 

[dan p]

I agree with Veteran....while Jesus died for all, not all will believe and partake of the benefits.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The good tidings of great joy were for all...
[quote="Luke 2:10-11":1h1sx0df]And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

I found it interesting that even Calvin sees this.

God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, but the ingratitude of the world is the reason why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few. Although this joy is confined to a few persons, yet, with respect to God, it is said to be common. When the angel says that this joy shall be to all the people, he speaks of the chosen people only; but now that ‘the middle wall of partition’ (Eph. 2:14) has been thrown down, the same passage has reference to the whole human race" (Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke by John Calvin, vol. I, Baker Book House reprint, 1979, pp. 115-116).

[/quote:1h1sx0df]

Hi glorydaz, are you saying the Context WHERE IT SAYS " MANY " than can also mean WORLD ?? Is that what you are saying ???

 

[watchman F]

Hi to all , and v28 says , For this is My blood of the New Covenant , which is shed FOR MANY for the remission of sins . I no that there are many other topics in verses 28 and 29 , concerning the Passover , New Covenant , and drink again , and the Kingdom or the Millennium .

#1 , Why did Jesus die " for MANY " ????

#2 , I thought , He died for the world ???

#3 , I believe that He DID DIE for the world , but Jesus said He died for MANY !!!! right ???

#4 So , what does MANY , mean , 10 Jews ???

#5 , Maybe 1000 Jews , because that is the Context , right ????

#6 , 100,000 Jews ????

#7 , Since we know that Christ died for the world , why did He use the word MANY , HERE ????

The reason He said ''for many'' is because he was fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel (:27
Daniel 9:27a And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:......

I know that people claim the anti christ will do this , but in all actuality it is Christ that confirms the covenant.

What was the covenant?
Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

And who confirmed it.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

So you are right Jesus did die for all, but He spoke as He did to show that He was fulfilling prophecy, just like when He said i thirst, and my God, my God why have you forsaking me, He was showing that He was fulfilling Psalm 22

 

[Vic C.]

The reason He said ''for many'' is because he was fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel (:27
Daniel 9:27a And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:......

I know that people claim the anti christ will do this , but in all actuality it is Christ that confirms the covenant.

What was the covenant?
Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

And who confirmed it.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

So you are right Jesus did die for all, but He spoke as He did to show that He was fulfilling prophecy, just like when He said i thirst, and my God, my God why have you forsaking me, He was showing that He was fulfilling Psalm 22

Not a very popular belief around here, but I say, :amen :yes

 

[glorydaz]

I agree with Veteran....while Jesus died for all, not all will believe and partake of the benefits.
[quote="Isaiah 53:6":1j3f1spu] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The good tidings of great joy were for all...
[quote="Luke 2:10-11":1j3f1spu]And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

I found it interesting that even Calvin sees this.

God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, but the ingratitude of the world is the reason why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few. Although this joy is confined to a few persons, yet, with respect to God, it is said to be common. When the angel says that this joy shall be to all the people, he speaks of the chosen people only; but now that ‘the middle wall of partition’ (Eph. 2:14) has been thrown down, the same passage has reference to the whole human race" (Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke by John Calvin, vol. I, Baker Book House reprint, 1979, pp. 115-116).

[/quote:1j3f1spu]

Hi glorydaz, are you saying the Context WHERE IT SAYS " MANY " than can also mean WORLD ?? Is that what you are saying ???[/quote:1j3f1spu]

I'm saying not all will avail themselves of Jesus' death on the cross.
He died for all, but not all will come....many will, but not all.

 

[D4Christ]

The reason He said ''for many'' is because he was fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel (:27
Daniel 9:27a And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:......

I know that people claim the anti christ will do this , but in all actuality it is Christ that confirms the covenant.

There were many covenants in the OT. God made a covenant with Noah, Abraham, and Moses. However, it is the covenant made with Moses that was addressed by Christ. In that case, the covenant was not “confirmed.â€

Confirmed: Strong’s #H1396 – to make strong or strengthen. Dictionary.com - to establish truth, validity, to make valid, to make firm; add strength.

You can only strengthen something that is already in place. Christ did not come to strengthen/confirm an already existing covenant and to suggest so is out of order. Scriptures plainly state that Christ came to establish a New Covenant, thereby abolishing the old one…which was the law that required animal sacrifices and sin offerings.

Hebrews 8

3 And since every high priest is required to offer gifts and sacrifices, our High Priest must make an offering, too. 4 If he were here on earth, he would not even be a priest, since there already are priests who offer the gifts required by the law.
6 But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises.
7 If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it. 8 But when God found fault with the people, he said:
“The day is coming, says the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel and Judah.
9 This covenant will not be like the one
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
and led them out of the land of Egypt.
They did not remain faithful to my covenant,
so I turned my back on them, says the Lord.
10 But this is the new covenant I will make
with the people of Israel on that day, says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their minds,
and I will write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors,
nor will they need to teach their relatives
saying, ‘You should know the Lord.’
For everyone, from the least to the greatest,
will know me already.
12 And I will forgive their wickedness,
and I will never again remember their sins.â€
13 When God speaks of a “new†covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

Therefore, Christ cannot be the one who strengthened and validated the covenant spoken of by Daniel. In any case, that covenant in Daniel was only for one week (7 years) and there is no expiration date with the new covenant that Christ made by His sacrifice on the cross that is described in Hebrews.

 

[watchman F]

The reason He said ''for many'' is because he was fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel (:27
Daniel 9:27a And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:......

I know that people claim the anti christ will do this , but in all actuality it is Christ that confirms the covenant.

There were many covenants in the OT. God made a covenant with Noah, Abraham, and Moses. However, it is the covenant made with Moses that was addressed by Christ. In that case, the covenant was not “confirmed.â€

Actually it was the covenant made with Abraham that Christ confirmed as my previous post clearly demonstrate with these 2 passages.

What was the covenant?
Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

And who confirmed it.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

 

[D4Christ]

Actually it was the covenant made with Abraham that Christ confirmed as my previous post clearly demonstrate with these 2 passages.

What was the covenant?
Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

And who confirmed it.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Clearly Daniel states that a covenant was strengthened for a period (meaning it has a start and end time) for 7 weeks (years). The covenant between God and Abraham was an everlasting covenant that cannot be broken.

Genesis 17

7 “I will confirm my covenant with you and your descendants after you, from generation to generation. This is the everlasting covenant: I will always be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

Perhaps Galatians 3 makes more sense when taken in context and in a different translation (since none of the other translations word the passage the same as the KJV) .

Galatians 3

8 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.†9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.†14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
15 Dear brothers and sisters, here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promises to Abraham and his child. And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,†as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his childâ€â€”and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.

It seems like this passage is saying that Christ fulfilled the promises given to Abraham by allowing Gentiles, who believe in Him, to share in the blessings promised to Abraham. These were promises that could not be broken despite the law that was given to Moses, which was consequently replaced by Christ with a New Covenant.

Unless you can demonstrate where the promises to Abraham had a time limit placed on them, Daniel 9:27 is speaking of a different covenant…one that is not everlasting.

 

[mondar]

It seems like this passage is saying that Christ fulfilled the promises given to Abraham by allowing Gentiles, who believe in Him, to share in the blessings promised to Abraham. These were promises that could not be broken despite the law that was given to Moses, which was consequently replaced by Christ with a New Covenant.

Unless you can demonstrate where the promises to Abraham had a time limit placed on them, Daniel 9:27 is speaking of a different covenant…one that is not everlasting.

D4Christ, exellent comment, and I think you show some understanding. How can the New Covenant which is called the everlasting covenant in Isaiah be for only 7 years? Then to be consistent, you must also see Christ as the one who causes the abomination of desolation in the middle of that week (7 years).
(ASV) 27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate;.....
I must admit, your point about 1 week not being "everlasting" is a good point. But also, I have trouble seeing my righteous savior as the one who commits "abominations."

 

[Vic C.]

Sort of off topic...

First off, I'd like to say that Daniel 9:24-27 is probably the most important Messianic prophecy of all. It pinpoints the arrival of Messiah. Jews and unbelievers scoff when we point to some futuristic event. But point to this passage and we have something substantial in proving that Jesus was Messiah.

Mondar, this is basically a Reformed belief. It is often misunderstood because many are just not reading it in the light of Messianic prophecy. Jesus' once and for all sacrifice and the oblation to cease. There are verses in Hebrews that make a wonderful testimony to this act.

This portion, "and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate;.....", is a parenthesis and isn't directly part of the 70 weeks. It's a continuation of this, from vs. 26, which is also a parenthesis.

"...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The 9:24-27 passage is nicely summed up in vs. 24:

24- Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

It's all right there, in one verse. If this were a future 70th. week, prophecy would be revealed, not sealed up.

An end to the penalty of transgressions and sin and reconciliation for their iniquities was accomplished at the Cross: (for those who accepted it)

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The effect of all this? Everlasting righteousness! :amen Plus, it goes with saying (but I will anyway) the most High was indeed anointed.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

I denied this interpretation for years. It literally hit me a couple of years ago, practically overnight. I finally understood this was part of Messianic prophecy and that some future antichrist is never mentioned. In this passage, we do see a type of antichrist (the prince of the empire at the time of the Jewish revolt, Titus, most likely).

Now for Daniel's timeframe... the seven year time frame is easy to break down. From the time of Jesus' anointing to the time He was crucified (And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,) we know to be aprox. 3 1/2 years. From that time until the Gospel was offered to the first Gentiles is aprox. another 3 1/2 years.

Romans 11 tells us those that were cut out can be grafted back in. So the promise of an everlasting covenant remains unbroken.

Once we realize this is a Messianic prophecy and that there are parenthesis' in the passage, it becomes clearer that this is no future seventh week. We get all muddied up when we still try to add future events into this passage. For 1,500-1,600 years, no one ever broke up this prophecy into two timeframes. Newton and many of the Reformers also hold to this being a Messianic prophecy. :yes

 

[mondar]

Re: Sort of off topic...

First off, I'd like to say that Daniel 9:24-27 is probably the most important Messianic prophecy of all. It pinpoints the arrival of Messiah. Jews and unbelievers scoff when we point to some futuristic event. But point to this passage and we have something substantial in proving that Jesus was Messiah.

Mondar, this is basically a Reformed belief....

Vic, I cannot buy what you refer to the "Reformed belief" at this point. If you want, I can explain my reasoning in more detail. The bottom line is that I cannot see Matthew 24 from a historicist point of view. It looks like unfulfilled prophecy to me.

I would see verse 15 as being in the same time period as verse 22, and both 15 and 22 are in the same context as 29 and 30. The question of the passage concerns the "sign" of his coming. That is introduced in verse 3. I would place everything from verse 9 onward as future.

Certainly only full preterists would place Matthew 24:29-30 as an event related to Titus. I dont see how partial preterists can remove Dan 24:15 for the timing of the 2nd coming and make it historical. So then, I am also unable to see Dan 9:27 as historically fulfilled since it is quoted in Matthew

Concerning the context of Daniel, I do not see the grammatical parenthesis you suggest. In verse 26 the prince destroys both city and "sanctuary." And this is unrelated to the "abomination" that makes desolate in verse 27?

 

[Vic C.]

Not a problem, Mondar. Maybe one day this topic will crop up in the End Times Forum (like it does quite often) and it can be discussed further. I'm far from an expert concerning all the Reformers believed about End Times anyway. Most of what I posted comes from Newton's observations. Jason (JM of these boards) turned me on to his writings. When I read Newton's commentaries, it all makes sense. I don't quite articulate all my thoughts as well.

Then again, I'm no Newton either.


I think we need to get back to:

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[Ret]

Hi to all , and v28 says , For this is My blood of the New Covenant , which is shed FOR MANY for the remission of sins ...

#1 , Why did Jesus die " for MANY " ????
....
#7 , Since we know that Christ died for the world , why did He use the word MANY , HERE ????

The following text/s don't seem compatible, but on second look, they explain each other...

• John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;
  but that the world through him might be saved. KJV
  
  John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world,
  but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. KJV
  

 

[Sinthesis]

Hi to all , and v28 says , For this is My blood of the New Covenant , which is shed FOR MANY for the remission of sins . I no that there are many other topics in verses 28 and 29 , concerning the Passover , New Covenant , and drink again , and the Kingdom or the Millennium .

#1 , Why did Jesus die " for MANY " ????
#2 , I thought , He died for the world ???
#3 , I believe that He DID DIE for the world , but Jesus said He died for MANY !!!! right ???
#4 So , what does MANY , mean , 10 Jews ???
#5 , Maybe 1000 Jews , because that is the Context , right ????
#6 , 100,000 Jews ????
#7 , Since we know that Christ died for the world , why did He use the word MANY , HERE ????

The simplest explanation is that "for many" is qualified by "for the remission of sins". So while Jesus died for all, that all may be resurrected, only those "many" who believe on Him are resurrected to everlasting life as He has forgiven their sins, while the remaining "many" are resurrected to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[watchman F]

Actually it was the covenant made with Abraham that Christ confirmed as my previous post clearly demonstrate with these 2 passages.

What was the covenant?
Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

And who confirmed it.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Clearly Daniel states that a covenant was strengthened for a period (meaning it has a start and end time) for 7 weeks (years). The covenant between God and Abraham was an everlasting covenant that cannot be broken.

Genesis 17

7 “I will confirm my covenant with you and your descendants after you, from generation to generation. This is the everlasting covenant: I will always be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

Perhaps Galatians 3 makes more sense when taken in context and in a different translation (since none of the other translations word the passage the same as the KJV) .

Galatians 3
[quote:7yu0zkgy]
8 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.†9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.†14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
15 Dear brothers and sisters, here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promises to Abraham and his child. And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,†as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his childâ€â€”and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.

It seems like this passage is saying that Christ fulfilled the promises given to Abraham by allowing Gentiles, who believe in Him, to share in the blessings promised to Abraham. These were promises that could not be broken despite the law that was given to Moses, which was consequently replaced by Christ with a New Covenant.

Unless you can demonstrate where the promises to Abraham had a time limit placed on them, Daniel 9:27 is speaking of a different covenant…one that is not everlasting.[/quote:7yu0zkgy]The covenant is never broken, only the sacrifice was caused to cease which Christ also did when He became the final and only true sacrifice for sins on the cross.

 

[D4Christ]

The covenant is never broken, only the sacrifice was caused to cease which Christ also did when He became the final and only true sacrifice for sins on the cross.

Like I pointed out before...there are many covenants in the bible. The covenant between God and Abraham is everlasting...no one can break it. The covenant between God and Moses (Israelites) became obsolete and replaced by the New Covenant Christ put in place when He died on the cross. The covenant in Daniel is confirmed for only 7 years.

So far we have:

1 covenant that is everlatsting
1 covenant that is replaced by a new one
1 convenant that is confirmed for only 7 years

By your own theory that Daniel 9:27 is speaking of Christ because He caused the sacrifices to stop because He is the ultimate sacrifice, then why don’t the sacrifices stop when the covenant is confirmed….why 3.5 years later.

Daniel 9

27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.â€

Blessings,
Dee

 

[watchman F]

The everlasting covenant is the one Christ confirms as prophesied by Daniel in Daniel 9.

 

[D4Christ]

The everlasting covenant is the one Christ confirms as prophesied by Daniel in Daniel 9.

I understand having one's own opinion...but in light of the fact that Daniel 9 doesn't speak of an everlasting covenant...it in fact puts limits on it...when does one let go to an opinion that is proven wrong by the very scripture you keep referring to. We can't make it say 'everlasting' just to satisfy ourselves...that's out of order and filled with pride. Surely you can see that?