Christ Jesus came into the world to save ALL sinners

[Alfred Persson]

Alfred, the context of your answer is concerning who has the right to determine the Canon of Scripture. You keep saying that the "Church Universal" has that right and has determined the Masoretic text as the proper OT for the Canon of Scrioture. That, taken with what you ssy above, is essentially proclaiming that whatever Christian agrees with you about that matter, no matter what denomination they go to, they are a true Christian and any Christian, like ne, who disagrees with you about the Canon, is a tare. You realize this?

I was unclear. God is Sovereign. He chose the Jews to preserve His Scripture, and they did both OT and NT. The canons that were "canonized by council" simply agreed with the evident and manifest will of God

The OT canon was formalized by the Jews, the NT canon by Gentiles but the criteria they used was "it had to be apostolic", from the Jewish apostles.

So I am consistent with this scripture:

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. (Rom. 3:1-2 KJV)

The Jews established what is OT and NT scripture. God is Sovereign, He orchastrated events that made that happen for the 66 books.

It did not happen for the apocrapha. The Jews rejected the OT apocrypha as scripture.

I live with that decision because when I inquired into this, I believe the Holy Spirit confirmed in my heart the 66 books are God's Word. He did not do that for the apocrapha.


I am following my conscience on this, not yours or that of others. I will be judged for my decisions, and if I am wrong my honest hearted defense will be, its what my conscience had me do. Therefore, I expect to be excused if I am wrong based on this text:

..."their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)"
(Rom. 2:15 NKJ)

It should be noted, Church councils haven't proved to be infallible. Moreover, the church divided. The Orthodox split from Roman Catholics because of the Filioque addition. (And I agree the Orthodox were right). But this points to a glaring problem in anyone's decision to follow Church decisions. They can contradict themselves meaning some of them are wrong. So those who follow a canon set by the church have no genuine superiority over me, who accepts what Sovereign God has made canon throughout all of Christendom and the Jews.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hypothetically, a child of the devil could use their free will and become a child of God. God doesn't prevent that. But it will not happen, children of the devil don't WANT to be holy and good, they want evil.

Everyone who actually repents of sin was once a child of the devil, as that is what sinners are.
But their "turn from" sin enables the destruction of the old man and the rebirth of a new creature from God's seed.

That's who they are.

For those reborn of God's seed, that is who they were.

So it is NOT God's fault they don't repent, its theirs.

Everyone gets the chance during this lifetime.

Scripture reveals these two main groups exist. Therefore, I know its true. I don't use my limited understanding to argue against scripture revelation. That would be foolish.

Thanks be to God, men can switch which group they are of.

Have you abandoned your prior POV of men converting after their death ?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Have you abandoned your prior POV of men converting after their death ?

Not at all. Everyone born into the Kosmos since its foundation gets to see the light of Christ, but the children of the Devil reject it:
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
...
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (Jn. 1:4-9 KJV)

They can't fake it. The wicked do not want to live in holiness and light, so they use their free will and reject Christ's offer of salvation.

Their punishment is according to their works. For example, the "Bingo lady" who never did harm, but neither would she repent and obey Jesus' voice, would be instantly annhilated, consumed by the lake of fire into non-existence Just like Death and Hades pass into non existence when they are cast in.

But the Beast, False Prophet and Devil will be tormented for ever in the lake of fire.

So God's justice, love, impartiality is manifest. Everyone gets their choice, God does nor force Himself on anyone and all who reject Christ's propitiation for sin, pay for their sins according to their works. Its all perfectly just, impartial and loving.

Your theory everyone is a child of the devil, is unscriptural.

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

I was unclear. God is Sovereign. He chose the Jews to preserve His Scripture, and they did both OT and NT. The canons that were "canonized by council" simply agreed with the evident and manifest will of God

The OT canon was formalized by the Jews, the NT canon by Gentiles but the criteria they used was "it had to be apostolic", from the Jewish apostles.

So I am consistent with this scripture:

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. (Rom. 3:1-2 KJV)

The Jews established what is OT and NT scripture. God is Sovereign, He orchastrated events that made that happen for the 66 books.

It did not happen for the apocrapha. The Jews rejected the OT apocrypha as scripture.

I live with that decision because when I inquired into this, I believe the Holy Spirit confirmed in my heart the 66 books are God's Word. He did not do that for the apocrapha.


I am following my conscience on this, not yours or that of others. I will be judged for my decisions, and if I am wrong my honest hearted defense will be, its what my conscience had me do. Therefore, I expect to be excused if I am wrong based on this text:

..."their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)"
(Rom. 2:15 NKJ)

It should be noted, Church councils haven't proved to be infallible. Moreover, the church divided. The Orthodox split from Roman Catholics because of the Filioque addition. (And I agree the Orthodox were right). But this points to a glaring problem in anyone's decision to follow Church decisions. They can contradict themselves meaning some of them are wrong. So those who follow a canon set by the church have no genuine superiority over me, who accepts what Sovereign God has made canon throughout all of Christendom and the Jews.

What "Jews" rejected the Apocrypha?

I will ask that final question here and then move this debate by starting another thread. Although I still think this topic is related to this thread because intercession for the dead is in the Scriptures you have rejected.

 

[Alfred Persson]

What "Jews" rejected the Apocrypha?

I will ask that final question here and then move this debate by starting another thread. Although I still think this topic is related to this thread because intercession for the dead is in the Scriptures you have rejected.

At Jamnia (90 AD). Rabbinic tradition by the 2nd century settled on 24 books corresponding to the 39 books of the Protestant Canon.

I consider the apocrapha unreliable, uninspired opinions of men.

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

At Jamnia (90 AD). Rabbinic tradition by the 2nd century settled on 24 books corresponding to the 39 books of the Protestant Canon.

I consider the apocrapha unreliable, uninspired opinions of men.

I had a feeling that would be your answer. I will start a thread on this topic tonight. It will have the word "Jamnia" in the heading.
May the Lord be with you.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Not at all. Everyone born into the Kosmos since its foundation gets to see the light of Christ, but the children of the Devil reject it:
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
...
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (Jn. 1:4-9 KJV)

They can't fake it. The wicked do not want to live in holiness and light, so they use their free will and reject Christ's offer of salvation.

Their punishment is according to their works. For example, the "Bingo lady" who never did harm, but neither would she repent and obey Jesus' voice, would be instantly annhilated, consumed by the lake of fire into non-existence Just like Death and Hades pass into non existence when they are cast in.

But the Beast, False Prophet and Devil will be tormented for ever in the lake of fire.

So God's justice, love, impartiality is manifest. Everyone gets their choice, God does nor force Himself on anyone and all who reject Christ's propitiation for sin, pay for their sins according to their works. Its all perfectly just, impartial and loving.

That is all quit contrary to your opening remarks regarding a second chance after death.

Your theory everyone is a child of the devil, is unscriptural.

It is written..."He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:8-10)
Whosoever commits a sin, is a child of the devil.

 

[Alfred Persson]

That is all quit contrary to your opening remarks regarding a second chance after death.

It is written..."He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:8-10)
Whosoever commits a sin, is a child of the devil.

Just as you misunderstand scripture, you misunderstand me.

For exampe, 1 John 3:8 is literally "the (one) doing the sin", the verb is present active "committing" sin as a life practice, just as the devil sins as a life practice. That is how we know who the children of the devil are and who are born of God, those who don't stop sinning are children of the devil.

One who continues to commit sin represents the devil, because from the beginning the devil continues to sin. (1 Jn. 3:8 MIT)

He that is committing sin, is, of the adversary, because, from the beginning, the adversary is sinning. (1 Jn. 3:8 ROT)

he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; (1 Jn. 3:8 YLT)

This "Living Translation" paraphrase communicates John's thought precisely:

But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning (1 Jn. 3:8 NLT)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Just as you misunderstand scripture, you misunderstand me.

For exampe, 1 John 3:8 is literally "the (one) doing the sin", the verb is present active "committing" sin as a life practice, just as the devil sins as a life practice. That is how we know who the children of the devil are and who are born of God, those who don't stop sinning are children of the devil.

If one never actually repents of sin, there sin is a life long practice.
The children of the devil never cease from sin.
They may be able to pretend to walk in the light, on their own power, for a while; but their sinful nature will always win out in the end.
Peter writes this, of the children of God..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
God's children don't sin anymore.

 

[Whatever]

Jesus did indeed die for all

Really?
Joh 10:11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Joh 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

He didn't lay down His life for them.

And for all of you logic illiterate, the "because" is giving us a cause and effect relationship.
It says
You do not believe (effect)
Because you are not of my sheep (cause)

It does not say
You are not of my sheep (effect)
Because you do not believe (cause)

Jesus is not saying you are not of my sheep now, all you have to do is believe and you will become one of my sheep.

Jesus says it another way:
Joh 8:47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
Same logic.
You do not hear (effect)
Because you are not of God (cause)

You have to just totally reject what Jesus is saying because you do not like it (that ain't fair, it is unjust, I won't accept it, it goes against everything my mommy and daddy and Sunday school teachers and preachers have told me.)

 

[Whatever]

Jesus came into the world to save sinners

Also you are making a logical fallacy here.
Came into the world to save sinners
does not imply
Came into the world to save all or every sinner.

That "all sinners" is what you are adding to the text because of your presupposed ideas.

 

[miamited]

Also you are making a logical fallacy here.
Came into the world to save sinners
does not imply
Came into the world to save all or every sinner.

That "all sinners" is what you are adding to the text because of your presupposed ideas.

Hey Whatever

I don't think SolaScriptura was teaching the 'universal salvation' model. The teaching is sound that Jesus came into the world to save all sinners. It is God's will that all come to the truth of Jesus and be saved. Jesus was the person through whom that promise is made to everyone who will...

And that's where the wheat and the chaff are separated. ...respond by submitting to the authority of Jesus over their lives will then get to live with Jesus all of their lives. God sent His Son into the world as a testimony to us. That IF we will, after learning and accepting what Jesus has done on our behalf, then repent of our sin and follow after him, that person will be saved to enjoy life with Jesus for eternity.

So I think that it is a true statement to say that Jesus came into the world to save all people of the world, but it is dependent on our response, which is pretty much what Paul and the new covenant writers express to us repeatedly.

 

[Alfred Persson]

If one never actually repents of sin, there sin is a life long practice.
The children of the devil never cease from sin.
They may be able to pretend to walk in the light, on their own power, for a while; but their sinful nature will always win out in the end.
Peter writes this, of the children of God..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
God's children don't sin anymore.

No, that is incorrect. The devil's children sin continually. John didn't say anything about pretending.

God's children live a life of repentance because they do sin and hate it. That shows they are children of God.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (1 Jn. 1:9-2:1 NKJ)

 

[Whatever]

It is God's will that all come to the truth of Jesus and be saved.

The word "will" is the same as "desire" or "pleasure."

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'
Isa 46:11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.

Isaiah tells us that if God desires something, He will do it or bring it to pass.
Your interpretation causes a contradiction in Scripture.

That little word "all" can be interpreted to where there is no contradiction. It can be interpreted 2 ways.
individually
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
Collectively
some of all types
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, . . .
The word "kinds" is not in the Greek. The King James does not have it. All newer versions add it.

Let's try something:
1Ti 2:4 who desires all (kinds of) men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
What actually happens at the end. The Bible tells us.
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

All kinds of men are saved, not every person.
If God will do all His pleasure and He desires all kinds of men to be saved, He has accomplished it. Otherwise He has failed.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Also you are making a logical fallacy here.
Came into the world to save sinners
does not imply
Came into the world to save all or every sinner.

That "all sinners" is what you are adding to the text because of your presupposed ideas.

Only someone with a theological bias for doctrinal purposes, will say what you do!

It is the same group of people who try to force the plain meaning of "kosmos" in John 3:16, which is "the entire human race", which even John Calvin himself says, to mean "the elect". Something that another "Reformed" theologian, Robert Dabney, calls, "ABSURD"!

The FACT, as I have shown in the OP, that Jesus Himself clearly stated, that He Died on the cross for the reprobate, Judas, DESTROYS any "limit" on the extent of the Death of Jesus Christ!

These are FACTS as taught in the Bible!

 

[SolaScriptura]

Hey Whatever

I don't think SolaScriptura was teaching the 'universal salvation' model. The teaching is sound that Jesus came into the world to save all sinners. It is God's will that all come to the truth of Jesus and be saved. Jesus was the person through whom that promise is made to everyone who will...

And that's where the wheat and the chaff are separated. ...respond by submitting to the authority of Jesus over their lives will then get to live with Jesus all of their lives. God sent His Son into the world as a testimony to us. That IF we will, after learning and accepting what Jesus has done on our behalf, then repent of our sin and follow after him, that person will be saved to enjoy life with Jesus for eternity.

So I think that it is a true statement to say that Jesus came into the world to save all people of the world, but it is dependent on our response, which is pretty much what Paul and the new covenant writers express to us repeatedly.

The blind problem with the so called "Reformed/Calvinist", is that they have a very unbiblical view on the Death of Jesus Christ, that Jesus' Death "actually" saved the "elect"; whereas the Bible teaches, that His Death is POTENTIAL, in that every single sinner CAN be saved, IF they were to REPENT of their sins, and BELIEVE in the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ!

It is absurd to think, that, if someone holds to a UNIVERSAL "extent" of the Death of Jesus Christ, that this somehow equates with UNIVERSAL salvation!

The salvation of EVERY sinner is CONDITIONAL, as prescribed by God Incarnate Himself, in places like Mark 1:15. Here also the so called "Reformed/Calvinist", are at fault, as they WRONGLY assume that REPENTING from ones sins, is a "work"!

There is a very interesting passage in the third Chapter in the Book of Jonah. After all the people had acknowledged their wicked and sinful ways, and turned to the Lord (Repented), we read in verse 10

"And God saw their workes, that they turned from their euill way, and God repented of the euill that hee had sayd, that he would doe vnto them, and he did it not" (KJV 1611 edition)

Note that it says, "And God saw their WORKS..." the very word that the "Reformed/Calvinist", falsely use!

That they had TURNED (Repented), and BELIEVED the preaching of Jonah, that God forgave them!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Really?
Joh 10:11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Joh 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

He didn't lay down His life for them.

And for all of you logic illiterate, the "because" is giving us a cause and effect relationship.
It says
You do not believe (effect)
Because you are not of my sheep (cause)

It does not say
You are not of my sheep (effect)
Because you do not believe (cause)

Jesus is not saying you are not of my sheep now, all you have to do is believe and you will become one of my sheep.

Jesus says it another way:
Joh 8:47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
Same logic.
You do not hear (effect)
Because you are not of God (cause)

You have to just totally reject what Jesus is saying because you do not like it (that ain't fair, it is unjust, I won't accept it, it goes against everything my mommy and daddy and Sunday school teachers and preachers have told me.)

Jesus died for all, but not all are interested in serving Him.
Serving Him is necessary for salvation.
Jesus is the door, but we have to walk through it to profit from it.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Really?
Joh 10:11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Joh 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

He didn't lay down His life for them.

And for all of you logic illiterate, the "because" is giving us a cause and effect relationship.
It says
You do not believe (effect)
Because you are not of my sheep (cause)

It does not say
You are not of my sheep (effect)
Because you do not believe (cause)

Jesus is not saying you are not of my sheep now, all you have to do is believe and you will become one of my sheep.

Jesus says it another way:
Joh 8:47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
Same logic.
You do not hear (effect)
Because you are not of God (cause)

You have to just totally reject what Jesus is saying because you do not like it (that ain't fair, it is unjust, I won't accept it, it goes against everything my mommy and daddy and Sunday school teachers and preachers have told me.)

Ho Hum!

Strawman arguments!

Read the conversation that Jesus Christ had with the Jews who wanted to murder Him in John chapter 5

Jesus tells these same Jews, "
24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life. 25 “I assure you: An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live....34 I don’t receive man’s testimony, but I say these things so that you may be saved...39 You pore over the Scriptures because you think you have eternal life in them, yet they testify about Me. 40 And you are not willing to come to Me so that you may have life"

Note here, Jesus is very clear that these Jews had the ABILITY to not only HEAR His voice, but to also OBEY His voice so that they could be saved! Jesus also tells these, that He told them these things, from verse 15 onwards, "THAT YOU MAY BE SAVED". Note the use here by Jesus of "σωθῆτε", the subjunctive, passive, "MIGHT be saved", which is CONDITIONAL! This is clear from Jesus' words in verses 39-40, where He charges these Jews of not WILLING to go to Jesus, so that these murdering Jews could also have ETERNAL LIFE! This passage in chapter 5, completely DESTROYS the TULI in TULIP!

 

[Alfred Persson]

The blind problem with the so called "Reformed/Calvinist", is that they have a very unbiblical view on the Death of Jesus Christ, that Jesus' Death "actually" saved the "elect"; whereas the Bible teaches, that His Death is POTENTIAL, in that every single sinner CAN be saved, IF they were to REPENT of their sins, and BELIEVE in the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Actually, both are shortsighted seeing only half the elephant, one standing at the head and the other at the tail. So both agree what an Elephant's torso looks like, but as they can't see past the middle they dispute what the entire elephant looks like. One sees only the hind parts, the other the head and shoulder.

Sherlock Holmes would grasp the error immediately, and put the testimony of both together and draw the full picture of an elephant accurately, with both Head and Tail.

But not Arminians and Calvinists. They rant and rave how "blind" the other guy is.

Was Christ blind when He contradicts you saying He would lose no one given to Him?

"This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. (Jn. 6:39 NKJ)

Was Paul blind when he contradicts you saying those predestined He also glorified:

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? (Rom. 8:29-31 NKJ)

No, they aren't blind, its more complex than either Arminius or Calvin realized.

God does predestine the elect to salvation, without thereby denying the non-elect can also be saved if they grasp the opportunity. God gracefully enables all the non-elect choose to be saved. Nothing prevents that. In fact, God makes sure everyone born since the foundation of the world has seen the light of Christ at somepoint in their existence:

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
...
9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. (Jn. 1:4-9 NKJ)

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

Calvin’s self-contradiction proves Sherlock Holmes a better logician | End Time News

Calvin was not a sound logician like Sherlock Holmes, that is evident by the self-contradiction his premises imply. For example, Peter says: 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the...

endtimenews.net

 

[SolaScriptura]

Actually, both are shortsighted seeing only half the elephant, one standing at the head and the other at the tail. So both agree what an Elephant's torso looks like, but as they can't see past the middle they dispute what the entire elephant looks like. One sees only the hind parts, the other the head and shoulder.

Sherlock Holmes would grasp the error immediately, and put the testimony of both together and draw the full picture of an elephant accurately, with both Head and Tail.

But not Arminians and Calvinists. They rant and rave how "blind" the other guy is.

Was Christ blind when He contradicts you saying He would lose no one given to Him?

"This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. (Jn. 6:39 NKJ)

Was Paul blind when he contradicts you saying those predestined He also glorified:

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? (Rom. 8:29-31 NKJ)

No, they aren't blind, its more complex than either Arminius or Calvin realized.

God does predestine the elect to salvation, without thereby denying the non-elect can also be saved if they grasp the opportunity. God gracefully enables all the non-elect choose to be saved. Nothing prevents that. In fact, God makes sure everyone born since the foundation of the world has seen the light of Christ at somepoint in their existence:

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
...
9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. (Jn. 1:4-9 NKJ)

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

Calvin’s self-contradiction proves Sherlock Holmes a better logician | End Time News

Calvin was not a sound logician like Sherlock Holmes, that is evident by the self-contradiction his premises imply. For example, Peter says: 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the...

endtimenews.net

you make the same mistake as others do who TRY to "prove" that the Bible teaches predestination to salvation

Look again at what Paul actually writes, without putting your meaning into his words

"He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son"

The predestination here is, "TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON", NOTHING to do with FOR SALVATION! This is about those who are ALREADY BORN-AGAIN.

Likewise in Ephesians 1:5, "having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will". Here the predestination is "TO THE ADOPTION AS SONS", for those ALREADY BORN-AGAIN!

The Greek verb, προορίζω, means to "mark out before hand"

Let the CONTEXT determine what the Bible is saying, without spinning it!