Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

The sin that you sin because of the deceitfulness of sin, or weakness, or out of ignorance of right and wrong is not sinning on purpose.

Sinning on purpose is sinning because you do not care about or believe in the blood of Christ and the gospel anymore. The Christian has to go back to unbelief, and thereby no longer be a Christian, to sin willing and on purpose in defiance of the forgiveness and grace of God.

Sinning is the result of enticement, temptation, lust, and conception. (James 1:14-15)
James didn't include weakness or ignorance.

 

[Hopeful]

“Quickening“ our mortal body refers to the resurrection from the dead.

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:11


This occurs at His coming.


But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23


Being baptized in water, symbolically identifies us with Christ death and resurrection.


Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
Romans 6:4-5

I know differently.

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry but I cling to the truth of the scriptures.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12



Where is the sin that Paul warns them, to not let reign over them so that they don’t obey its lusts?

1. In their mortal body?
2. In Satan
3. In their neighbor
4. In unbelievers

I wonder what Jesus did about your alleged sin in His body?
Nothing, because He wouldn't allow it to enter His body.
Neither will I...thanks be to God and the rebirth from His perfect seed.

 

[JLB]

I know differently.

That is the point I and others have been making from the scriptures.


YOU KNOW DIFFERENTLY!

You certainly “know” differently, because your “knowledge” comes from your denominational teaching and is not the knowledge from God; the scriptures!


Your “mindset” that was formed most likely at the time you were growing spiritually, it which you were hungry for God and His truth, but instead you were fed denominational doctrine by which a “STRONGHOLD” was formed in your mind that has shaped your understanding.

Your “mindset” exalts itself against the knowledge of God; it resists and pushes away the truth of the scriptures, constantly rejecting it in favor of the “preconceived idea”.

This is why you insist that your physical body literally died when you were baptized in water, in which you somehow came back to life and now have a sinless perfected physical body.

This “understanding” is a major pillar of that stronghold.

When I show you the scripture that we don’t receive a sinless physical body until the coming of the Lord and the resurrection from the dead, you ignore it, and continue your claim of being sinless and perfect.

Therefore you have no reason to confess any sins and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

• If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Don‘t you see that these verses apply to us as God’s children; Christians?

Don’t you see that John includes himself in these verses?


Please sir, please consider these verses and pray about what I have posted, please.





JLB

 

[JLB]

I wonder what Jesus did about your alleged sin in His body?
Nothing, because He wouldn't allow it to enter His body.
Neither will I...thanks be to God and the rebirth from His perfect seed.

Jesus was and is and always will be sinless.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You seem to have adopted a doctrine of salvation that demands sinning.

The Bible doesn't demand that the believer sin.
It understands that we will sin. And tells us why. Galatians 5:17

I find that really unorthodox.

Since yours is the un-Biblical doctrine, you have the unorthodox theology.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why can't you apply the same logic to righteousness?

Because Paul was careful to explain to us that it doesn't work that way. He thoroughly explains how the gospel in which a person does righteous works and rituals to become righteous is 'another' gospel, not the true gospel.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Starting out perfect allows the growth in grace and knowledge we need to convince others to abandon sin.

Let's read the passage again:

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities and continue to grow in them, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:5-11

You acknowledge that Peter is indeed talking about growth in these virtues. Obviously, if you need to grow in self-control, perseverance, brotherly kindness, and love then it means you were not born spiritually 100% perfect and complete in these things.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am surprised you don't think the remission of your past sins didn't make you righteous.

The remission of my past sins did make me righteous.
And any and all subsequent sins of weakness, ignorance, or lack of awareness I commit are instantly forgiven by the blood of Jesus I believe in constantly interceding on my behalf on the altar in heaven. Hebrews 7:25, Romans 8:34

It made me a cleansed, reborn man.

Me too.
What you don't understand is that the full cleansing of rebirth occurred deep within you, in your inner man, not your flesh. You have a new mindset, not a new body. The mindset of the Spirit. Now God is training us to walk according to the new mindset of the Spirit we have deep within us and to stop listening to the voice of the flesh demanding we serve it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ever met someone who did that?

Yeah, me and many brothers and sisters I've known through the years, growing up into the image and stature of Christ.

In fact, it sounds like the works you so very much hate.

No, that's not the works gospel, because becoming more and more like Jesus doesn't MAKE you a righteous person. It SHOWS that you have the righteousness of God in you by faith in the blood of Christ - James 2:18.

Righteous living is a consequence of being made righteous, not the way you become righteous. Faith in God all by itself apart from works MAKES you righteous in his sight. Works SHOW you to have the righteousness of God in you by faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

All sin is by the unbelievers.

Then why does Jesus' blood continue to intercede in heaven for believers for the forgiveness of sin?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sinning is the result of enticement, temptation, lust, and conception. (James 1:14-15)
James didn't include weakness or ignorance.

Obviously, a strong person doesn't cave in to the enticement and temptation of sin. Only weak people do. So, obviously, James is talking about weakness. Weakness that is, perhaps, the result of ignorance of the difference between right and wrong, or about the power of God over sin that is within us.

Paul talks about the weakness of the believer here:

17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. Romans 6:17-19

He's talking to people who "once were slaves to sin", and "set free from sin", and "have become slaves to righteousness", and who "used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity", and yet he is addressing them because of the "weakness of (their) flesh". Weakness is indeed a reason why people "set free from sin" and who are "slaves to righteousness" sin.

Sometimes we are weak and don't always walk in the freedom we have from the slavery of sin. But we have the continual intercession of the blood of Christ in heaven forgiving us as God heals us and strengthens and trains us up to live out the righteousness we have within us by the Holy Spirit which we received through faith in Him.

 

[Hopeful]

That is the point I and others have been making from the scriptures.
YOU KNOW DIFFERENTLY!
You certainly “know” differently, because your “knowledge” comes from your denominational teaching and is not the knowledge from God; the scriptures!
Your “mindset” that was formed most likely at the time you were growing spiritually, it which you were hungry for God and His truth, but instead you were fed denominational doctrine by which a “STRONGHOLD” was formed in your mind that has shaped your understanding.
Your “mindset” exalts itself against the knowledge of God; it resists and pushes away the truth of the scriptures, constantly rejecting it in favor of the “preconceived idea”.
This is why you insist that your physical body literally died when you were baptized in water, in which you somehow came back to life and now have a sinless perfected physical body.
This “understanding” is a major pillar of that stronghold.
When I show you the scripture that we don’t receive a sinless physical body until the coming of the Lord and the resurrection from the dead, you ignore it, and continue your claim of being sinless and perfect.

Therefore you have no reason to confess any sins and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.

I already did that, thanks be to God !

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
• If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
• If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Don‘t you see that these verses apply to us as God’s children; Christians?
Don’t you see that John includes himself in these verses?

Verses 6, 8, and 10 are addressing those walking in darkness/sin.
Sinners can't honestly say they have no sin.
Oh, BTW, if "all our unrighteousness" has been cleansed, can't we say we have no unrighteousness?????
I am glad God made it possible to walk in the light/God, in whom is no sin.

Please sir, please consider these verses and pray about what I have posted, please.

Thank God for the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins...so that I could walk without sin from then on.
By remaining in the light, God, in whom is no sin, I too can remain free from sin.
Nothing is impossible with God !

 

[Hopeful]

Jesus was and is and always will be sinless.

Amen.
Are you in Jesus?
Yes?
Can there be sin in Jesus?
No?
Then how can your admittedly sinful self be in Jesus?

 

[Hopeful]

The Bible doesn't demand that the believer sin.
It understands that we will sin. And tells us why. Galatians 5:17

No, you do.

Since yours is the un-Biblical doctrine, you have the unorthodox theology.

Does God want us to commit sin?
Don't His apostles, pastors, and prophets supply what we need to remain faithfully obedient to God?
Only the one's "in Christ".
The false prophets and pastors make accommodations for sin.

 

[Hopeful]

Because Paul was careful to explain to us that it doesn't work that way. He thoroughly explains how the gospel in which a person does righteous works and rituals to become righteous is 'another' gospel, not the true gospel.

OK, but those made righteous will remain righteous.
If they start doing unrighteousness, they really aren't righteous anymore.

 

[Hopeful]

Let's read the passage again:

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities and continue to grow in them, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:5-11

You acknowledge that Peter is indeed talking about growth in these virtues. Obviously, if you need to grow in self-control, perseverance, brotherly kindness, and love then it means you were not born spiritually 100% perfect and complete in these things.

Verse 8 starts with..."For if you possess these qualities...".
Rebirth from God's seed furnishes us with "these qualities".
If you don't have them, you can't grow in them.
But having them, we can grow in them.
A stalk of corn needs to grow to bring forth fruit, but it will always be "corn".
So too we, being reborn of God's seed need to grow in order to bring forth MORE fruit, but we will always be the sons of God.
If your fruit is un-Godly, you were not reborn of God.

 

[Hopeful]

The remission of my past sins did make me righteous.
And any and all subsequent sins of weakness, ignorance, or lack of awareness I commit are instantly forgiven by the blood of Jesus I believe in constantly interceding on my behalf on the altar in heaven. Hebrews 7:25, Romans 8:34

If you were still sinning, you weren't righteous.

Me too.
What you don't understand is that the full cleansing of rebirth occurred deep within you, in your inner man, not your flesh. You have a new mindset, not a new body. The mindset of the Spirit. Now God is training us to walk according to the new mindset of the Spirit we have deep within us and to stop listening to the voice of the flesh demanding we serve it.

Partial rebirth.
Sounds ugly...and not of God.
Why do you want to retain part of that which will eventually damn you?
"...ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW...except for the vessel of the Holy Ghost".
Where is that scripture?

 

[Hopeful]

Yeah, me and many brothers and sisters I've known through the years, growing up into the image and stature of Christ.

Good, I am glad others also live without sin.

No, that's not the works gospel, because becoming more and more like Jesus doesn't MAKE you a righteous person. It SHOWS that you have the righteousness of God in you by faith in the blood of Christ - James 2:18.

Righteous living is a consequence of being made righteous, not the way you become righteous. Faith in God all by itself apart from works MAKES you righteous in his sight. Works SHOW you to have the righteousness of God in you by faith.

It is your works.
You contend part of you is still unrighteous.
How can that be?
Either you are righteous, or you are not.
There are plenty of 25% and 50%ers out there, even some 90%ers, but God wants 100%ers only !
There is no unrighteousness "in Christ".

 

[Hopeful]

Then why does Jesus' blood continue to intercede in heaven for believers for the forgiveness of sin?

God's ears are not open to sinners, so your POV is baseless. (John 9:31, 1 Peter 3:12)
Repent of sin, and you will be heard.
But more sin shows the repentance was a lie to God, and that is not the way to build a relationship with God.
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (1 John 1:6)