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Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

Jethro Bodine said:
You're showing your ignorance of the gospel:

13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. Luke 18:13-14

You say that's too simple, that's too illogical. That's not possible. He didn't do anything!

And read Luke 7:50 before you play the "but that's the old Testament" card, should you consider doing that, lol.
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Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins.
He has given us the means to have our sins forgiven too. (Acts 2:38)
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I don't believe you.
No apologies. I simply do not believe you. I don't care how much you claim you have not sinned a single sin since (supposedly?) believing in Christ. I do not believe it.
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I don't care if you believe God has that kind of power or not.
Though I wish you did.
 
Hopeful said:
Sin after rebirth would make a lot of scripture lies.
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No sin after rebirth makes Galatians 5:17 and 2 Peter 1:8 lies.

You have been deceived by a doctrine that does not take the whole counsel of scripture into consideration. Paul calls that un-rightly dividing the scriptures. Virtually all false doctrine is formed by improperly isolating various scriptures away from the whole counsel of scripture.
 
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Hopeful said:
Can doing unrighteousness make me unrighteous?
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It SHOWS you to be unrighteous. Unrighteousness condemns you, it doesn't MAKE you unrighteous, for no one is righteous. Everyone has to become righteous. And not by doing righteous work, but by having your unrighteous work forgiven, by faith in that forgiveness.
 
Hopeful said:
I don't care if you believe God has that kind of power or not.
Though I wish you did.
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God has great power. But he simply does not make the believer 100% complete and perfect right from the spiritual womb. The scriptures clearly describe a process of growing up and maturing into the practice of holiness that the believer has been set apart to do. Your doctrine does not take those clear scriptures into consideration. It un-rightly divides the scriptures.
 
Hopeful said:
Sin equates to unbelief.
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Only if that sin is the result of not believing in the forgiveness of sin through Christ.
Christians sin because of weakness, or ignorance, or lack of vigilance, but not out of unbelief, or else they would not be Christians.
 
Hopeful said:
All sin is on purpose, so what is your point?
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The sin that you sin because of the deceitfulness of sin, or weakness, or out of ignorance of right and wrong is not sinning on purpose.

Sinning on purpose is sinning because you do not care about or believe in the blood of Christ and the gospel anymore. The Christian has to go back to unbelief, and thereby no longer be a Christian, to sin willing and on purpose in defiance of the forgiveness and grace of God.
 
Hopeful said:
Yes, my skin and bones were quickened by the Holy Spirit, (Rom 8:10-11), after their death-destruction and burial with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
God's seed cannot bring forth liars, thieves, or adulterers.
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“Quickening“ our mortal body refers to the resurrection from the dead.

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:11


This occurs at His coming.


But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23


Being baptized in water, symbolically identifies us with Christ death and resurrection.


Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
Romans 6:4-5





JLB
 
Hopeful said:
You have clung to a lie.
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Sorry but I cling to the truth of the scriptures.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12



Where is the sin that Paul warns them, to not let reign over them so that they don’t obey its lusts?


  1. In their mortal body?
  2. In Satan
  3. In their neighbor
  4. In unbelievers




JLB
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No sin after rebirth makes Galatians 5:17 and 2 Peter 1:8 lies.

You have been deceived by a doctrine that does not take the whole counsel of scripture into consideration. Paul calls that un-rightly dividing the scriptures. Virtually all false doctrine is formed by improperly isolating various scriptures away from the whole counsel of scripture.
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You seem to have adopted a doctrine of salvation that demands sinning.
I find that really unorthodox.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
It SHOWS you to be unrighteous. Unrighteousness condemns you, it doesn't MAKE you unrighteous, for no one is righteous. Everyone has to become righteous. And not by doing righteous work, but by having your unrighteous work forgiven, by faith in that forgiveness.
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Why can't you apply the same logic to righteousness?
BTW, Jesus was the first to be righteous...if you don't count the righteous who proceded Him.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
God has great power. But he simply does not make the believer 100% complete and perfect right from the spiritual womb. The scriptures clearly describe a process of growing up and maturing into the practice of holiness that the believer has been set apart to do. Your doctrine does not take those clear scriptures into consideration. It un-rightly divides the scriptures.
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Then Jesus died in vain.
I am glad you are wrong.
Starting out perfect allows the growth in grace and knowledge we need to convince others to abandon sin.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
The cleansing ritual of water baptism no more makes you righteous in this covenant than cutting off the foreskin or observing a Sabbath made you righteous in the old covenant.
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I am surprised you don't think the remission of your past sins didn't make you righteous.
It made me a cleansed, reborn man.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Only if that sin is the result of not believing in the forgiveness of sin through Christ.
Christians sin because of weakness, or ignorance, or lack of vigilance, but not out of unbelief, or else they would not be Christians.
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All sin is by the unbelievers.
Adam and Eve didn't believe God.
The Israelites in the desert didn't believe God.
Liars and adulterers don't believe God.
 
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