Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

You don't understand.
Works don't justify because they are in the law of Moses.
Works don't justify because doing them can not make you righteous.
Only receiving God's forgiveness, by having faith in that forgiveness, can make you righteous.
You along with many, many other people simply do not understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Can the application of the atoning blood of my Savior wash away my sins?
Or not?
If not, He bled in vain.

 

[Hopeful]

That's works!
That's the self righteous works gospel that will leave you unprepared to meet Jesus when he returns. You're depending on becoming righteous by doing righteous works and rituals.

I can only serve one Master.
He made me righteous and I am not throwing that gift away.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, because you say they can't come in anyway!

Now you got it !
If you don't let the roaches in , they can't reign !
Thanks be to God !

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Pick your Master !

Why are you telling me to pick my master when you say I only have one master to pick from?????????

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now you got it !
If you don't let the roaches in , they can't reign !
Thanks be to God !

Stop evading!

Why do I have not let roaches in that you swear can't come in anyway??????

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He made me righteous and I am not throwing that gift away.

Did you forget?
You say you can't throw that gift away anyway!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I can't do the unrighteous things and still honestly call myself a Christian.

You can't purposely, in a rejection of the forgiveness of God, decide to do unrighteous things and still call yourself a Christian.

Sin committed as the result of no longer believing in the forgiveness of God is the only sin that can condemn the believer. All other sins are forgiven by the blood the believer believes and trusts in. The believer has to go back to unbelief to be condemned by sin.

 

[Hopeful]

The flesh will only prevent you from walking in the Spirit IF YOU LET IT.

I am glad God gave us so much ammunition to enable that walk.

Thus the admonition to not let sin reign in you!

The admonission is to not allow sin in you.

Paul is not saying the flesh can not make you sin. There is no language there that says that. None.

Even with the double negative, I agree.
The flesh can make one sin.
I thank God for making the way to crucify, (Gal 5:24), destroy, (Rom 6:6), and circumcise, (Col 2:11), that flesh.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So those in the Spirit cannot walk in the Spirit because of the flesh.
And those in the flesh cannot walk in the flesh because of the Spirit.
How ludicrous is that?

If that was the argument I suppose we could discuss it.
But as it is, that ain't the argument.

 

[Hopeful]

No, you DON'T get it.
You don't need to do righteous works TO BECOME RIGHTEOUS.
That happens entirely by receiving God's forgiveness, by faith, apart from works.
That has nothing to do with what 'kind' of works do or don't make you righteous.
NO WORK makes you righteous. That was the profound error of the Jews who thought by doing righteous works and rituals they BECOME righteous.

I kinda' think repenting of sin and being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins are righteous deeds.
Thanks be to God for both gifts !
One can't just lay on the ground and declare themselves righteous. LOL

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am glad God gave us so much ammunition to enable that walk.

I am too.
But we have to use it!
It isn't automatic as you are saying.
You have to choose to resist sin.
And you're not always going to do that!
You will more and more, though, as you learn and grow up into the image and stature of Christ.
You were born a baby in Christ, and you spend the rest of your life growing up and maturing into the image of the Father that gave you life. You do not start out mature and complete. You're deceived if you think you did.

 

[Hopeful]

Did you forget?
You say you can't throw that gift away anyway!

So true, thanks !
If one is reborn of God's seed, they can'[t bring forth the fruit of the devil ! (1 John 3:9)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

One can't just lay on the ground and declare themselves righteous. LOL

And that is EXACTLY what a works salvationist says.
Your unbelief in the gospel of Christ is showing through clearly.
You can't comprehend and believe that a man is made righteous by having his unrighteousness taken away by having it forgiven. You think that's too easy. You think that's illogical. And as a result you are lost. Because you serve the very works gospel that Paul says can not make a person righteous.

You may have started out in the Spirit, but now you are trying to finish in the fleshly effort of your works. That's what the Galatians did, and Paul told them very plainly that the person who does that has no share in the inheritance. You are anathema.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So true, thanks !
If one is reborn of God's seed, they can'[t bring forth the fruit of the devil ! (1 John 3:9)

Then why did you still sin after you (supposedly?) believed?

 

[Hopeful]

You can't purposely, in a rejection of the forgiveness of God, decide to do unrighteous things and still call yourself a Christian.

All sin is on purpose, so what is your point?

Sin committed as the result of no longer believing in the forgiveness of God is the only sin that can condemn the believer. All other sins are forgiven by the blood the believer believes and trusts in. The believer has to go back to unbelief to be condemned by sin.

As scripture says, folks will be condemned for their unbelief.
It is written..."Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Heb 10:38-39)
Sin equates to unbelief.

 

[Hopeful]

If that was the argument I suppose we could discuss it.
But as it is, that ain't the argument.

It is the mirror image of the argument.
If one is true so must the other be true.

 

[Hopeful]

I am too.
But we have to use it!
It isn't automatic as you are saying.
You have to choose to resist sin.
And you're not always going to do that!

Because you say so?
Who are you?

You will more and more, though, as you learn and grow up into the image and stature of Christ.
You were born a baby in Christ, and you spend the rest of your life growing up and maturing into the image of the Father that gave you life. You do not start out mature and complete. You're deceived if you think you did.

Sin after rebirth would make a lot of scripture lies.

 

[Hopeful]

And that is EXACTLY what a works salvationist says.
Your unbelief in the gospel of Christ is showing through clearly.
You can't comprehend and believe that a man is made righteous by having his unrighteousness taken away by having it forgiven. You think that's too easy. You think that's illogical. And as a result you are lost. Because you serve the very works gospel that Paul says can not make a person righteous.

You may have started out in the Spirit, but now you are trying to finish in the fleshly effort of your works. That's what the Galatians did, and Paul told them very plainly that the person who does that has no share in the inheritance. You are anathema.

Bring on the works, whereby I manifest my love for the One who died in my place !

 

[Jethro Bodine]

One can't just lay on the ground and declare themselves righteous. LOL

You're showing your ignorance of the gospel:

13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. Luke 18:13-14

You say that's too simple, that's too illogical. That's not possible. He didn't do anything!

And read Luke 7:50 before you play the "but that's the old Testament" card, should you consider doing that, lol.

 

[Hopeful]

Then why did you still sin after you (supposedly?) believed?

I didn't.