Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

The point is, neither of these MAKE you righteous. Neither has the power to justify you as Paul speaks about that in his epistles. Justification (being made righteous) happens entirely by having faith in God's forgiveness through Christ. Nothing you can do MAKES you righteous. Only having your sins forgiven through Christ by faith can make you righteous.

That seems to countermand itself. Or was it redundancy ?
Having faith in God's forgiveness is the same as having faith in God's forgiveness by baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
By turning from sin and being washed by the atoning blood of Christ at my "immersion" into His death, I have been made righteous.
God did it all.
I rode along.

 

[Hopeful]

There you have it, faith alone saved that thief that very day. No works, no baptism in water, but only believing and confessing Christ alone. It's just that simple.

You dismissed his repentance and death.

 

[for_his_glory]

You dismissed his repentance and death.

I'm only talking about faith alone as compared to others thinking they have to work for their salvation.

 

[jaybo]

You dismissed his repentance and death.

Luke 23:39-42, "One of the criminals who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom.” He replied, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Where do you see repentance and death? He admits inly that he has been condemned justly and getting what he deserves, nothing more. And there is nothing about his death.

Don't add to Scripture!

 

[Hopeful]

I'm only talking about faith alone as compared to others thinking they have to work for their salvation.

By "work", you do mean works of the Law "works"? Right?

 

[Hopeful]

Luke 23:39-42, "One of the criminals who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom.” He replied, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Where do you see repentance and death? He admits only that he has been condemned justly and getting what he deserves, nothing more. And there is nothing about his death.

He recognized and accepted the just punishment for his sin.
He won't be doing those sins again.
It is in effect, repentance from sin.
The death was on his own cross.

Don't add to Scripture!

I don't need to.

 

[donadams]

I do believe so as at that time of confessing Christ as Lord and Savior by having faith to believe He is who He says He is we were also sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. As long as we are walking in the Spirit and being obedient to God's commands then we are saved from being cast into the lake of fire when Christ returns as our names are found written in the Lamb's book of life. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

 

[donadams]

How do you explain this baptism you speak about, especially a baby that has no knowledge of God or His Son Christ Jesus in order to confess Him and then be baptized. As Christians we can dedicate our children to God and bring them up to learn of Him.

If you would take the time to stop and understand what all of us are telling you and giving the scriptures to show you, you will see that works follow after faith as no one can work for their salvation as that would be climbing up another way as only Jesus is the way, the truth and the life to God's salvation by the grace of God.

Why would anyone want to work for something that is freely given to them. Faith comes first and then it produces good works found in us through the greatest commandment of love.

Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say accept infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

 

[for_his_glory]

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

Our salvation is nearer as our salvation is in Christ in whosoever will believe in Him and everyday is a day closer to His return.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What part of these verses do you not understand as salvation does not come by working for it.

By "work", you do mean works of the Law "works"? Right?

No, I mean by good deeds as some think that it is by faith and works, not faith alone for our salvation.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

We are saved by grace through faith, not faith and works. Works follow after faith as faith alone has to come first.

 

[jaybo]

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

How else are you saved? By works? By the law?

John 3:16, " “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

 

[for_his_glory]

Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say accept infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

I have to disagree as infant baptism is not a Biblical command. None of those scriptures you gave says anything about an infant.

Yes, the promise is to every generation, but only if they repent of their sins and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior. Now, just exactly how does a baby do this that has no knowledge of good or evil, nor has no sin found in them. This is why we need to train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6.

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

What sins does a baby have? Until a child has been taught the difference between good and evil and understand that they are pure in the eyes of God.

 

[donadams]

Our salvation is nearer as our salvation is in Christ in whosoever will believe in Him and everyday is a day closer to His return.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What part of these verses do you not understand as salvation does not come by working for it.

No, I mean by good deeds as some think that it is by faith and works, not faith alone for our salvation.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

We are saved by grace through faith, not faith and works. Works follow after faith as faith alone has to come first.

So it absolute? “Faith alone” nothing added to it?

 

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

So it absolute? “Faith alone” nothing added to it?

Salvation goes like this: Faith alone during this Church Age (Eph 2:8-9), then during Tribulation it's going to be Faith + Works (because they'll be constantly resisting the Mark of the Beast), then in the Millenium reign it's Works only (Parable of the Talents) since everyone will see Jesus Christ ruling on Earth

 

[donadams]

How else are you saved? By works? By the law?

John 3:16, " “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

Even that verse rejects you’re idea of a single act of faith alone unto salvation, believes present tense and you must continue till death in believing Matt 24:13
We are save by grace thru faith and baptism

Acts 1:8 witness of the fathers

TERTULLIAN​

“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).
…
“Baptism itself is a corporal act by which we are plunged into the water, while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from our sins” (ibid., 7:2).

“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).

AUGUSTINE​

“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

 

[Chuck Clark]

James chapter 2 verse 24 seems to show that you have to have works for your faith in order to be saved. People who claim to believe faith alone but they say that this faith must have works in it, but however that automatically contradicts James 2:24 "..a man is justified and not by faith only", so then this passage talks about faith and works, not faith alone that really works, that's contradictory!

Answer: James 2:24 is not for the Christian Church, that's the solution, it's for Tribulation Jews! - Dr. Gene Kim

Watch the bible study video here: https://www.pass-a-gospel-tract.club/post/does-james-2-teach-works-for-salvation

James 1:1 KJV​

“James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.”

James 5:3 KJV​

“Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.”

Which is supported by the Book of Revelation

Revelation 7:4 KJV​

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”

 

[Hopeful]

No, I mean by good deeds as some think that it is by faith and works, not faith alone for our salvation.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

We are saved by grace through faith, not faith and works. Works follow after faith as faith alone has to come first.

What good is grace or belief if they are not manifested to others?
They would be dead grace and dead belief/faith.
The "faith alone" doctrine robs men of repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
It steals from men the necessity of manifesting both the life and death of Jesus on earth.
That doctrine is not of God.

 

[donadams]

I have to disagree as infant baptism is not a Biblical command. None of those scriptures you gave says anything about an infant.

Yes, the promise is to every generation, but only if they repent of their sins and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior. Now, just exactly how does a baby do this that has no knowledge of good or evil, nor has no sin found in them. This is why we need to train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6.

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

What sins does a baby have? Until a child has been taught the difference between good and evil and understand that they are pure in the eyes of God.

Infants must also be baptized yes Christ is the savior of all men
They are not righteous, no personal sin but also no grace
Jn 3:5 cannot enter without baptism

 

[Hopeful]

Infants must also be baptized yes Christ is the savior of all men
They are not righteous, no personal sin but also no grace
Jn 3:5 cannot enter without baptism

I can't agree.
Babies have committed no sins to be washed away by the waters of baptism/blood of Christ.
They are pure.

 

[stovebolts]

The point James was making, in my opinion, is that we work because we are saved not to get saved. This is in total harmony with the teachings of Paul.

A great word.
For me, it’s more about faith.

When we sit at our Lords feet and he teaches us His Ways, do we believe that putting those ways into practice is the best possible way to live? And don’t we want to be set free from the bondage this earth offers?

I don’t know about others, but I desire peace in my life, especially when a storm hits. Jesus offers us this peace and all we need to do is have enough faith to follow in Jesus footsteps.

I don’t think this is a work. It’s more of who we are in Christ.

.02

 

[donadams]

Salvation goes like this: Faith alone during this Church Age (Eph 2:8-9), then during Tribulation it's going to be Faith + Works (because they'll be constantly resisting the Mark of the Beast), then in the Millenium reign it's Works only (Parable of the Talents) since everyone will see Jesus Christ ruling on Earth

They are going to have another savior also? Lk 2:10 Jn 1:49

There is and can only be one true:

One God
One Christ
One Savior
One Spirit
One king
One Mediator
One Christian Religion
One New Covenant
One Church / body of Christ
One teaching Authority of apostles
One Gospel
OneVineyard
One Kingdom
One House of God
One Household of faith
One Baptism
One Redemption
One Justification
One Sanctification
One Salvation

One covenant for all!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 eph 4:4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Christ established the sacraments as the primary means of grace!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ founded the church for the salvation of souls!
Teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation!
Matt 28:19