Does man have free will to choose salvation?

[brightfame52]

Why do you think that ?

Yes, as I explained earlier, I was water baptized into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.
That resurrection made me a new creature !
One reborn of God's seed.

A person is passive in the New Birth, not active, you are saying something contrary to scripture, saying you were active in being born again.

 

[brightfame52]

…and the reborn abide in Him !

Well Jesus is God/Man keep that in mind

 

[brightfame52]

As men can't commit a sin until several years after their birth, they cannot be born in sin.
It takes a sin, to make a man dead in sin.
We weren't born that way.

This is what scripture calls sinful flesh Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

We enter this world with sinful flesh, dead in sin

 

[brightfame52]

Thank God we can repent of sin, and be reborn of God's seed !
Thank God we can be washed of past sin by the blood of Christ so we can be pure/sanctified !

Man is passive in the New Birth, we cant do anything to be born again, to be resurrected from the dead. What could the dead lazarus do to be resurrected from the grave ?

 

[Alfred Persson]

"...we allow that man has choice and that it is self-determined...We deny that choice is free, because through man's innate wickedness it is of necessity driven to what is evil and cannot seek anything but evil. - John Calvin from Bondage and Liberation of the Will, pg. 69-70

Grace and peace to you.

That definition is predicated upon "total depravity", that due to inherent sinfulness, humans lack the capacity to choose God.

However, several Scriptures contradict the premise.

The command to choose God implies free will exists to choose, otherwise its a fraud:

1. Deuteronomy 30:19​

“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore, choose life, that you and your offspring may live.”

2. Joshua 24:15

“And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

3. Isaiah 1:18-20

“‘Come now, let us reason together,’ says the Lord: ‘though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be eaten by the sword; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.’”

4. Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

5. John 7:17

“If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.”

6. Romans 2:14-15

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.”

7. Acts 17:27-28

“That they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. For ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are indeed his offspring.’”

8. Revelation 3:20

“Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.”

Therefore, two options exist and in both the opportunity to choose God exists. 1)By previenent grace God enables human free will to be free and choose God. 2)Humans can choose God even without supernatural help.

To think otherwise is to declare these scriptures a fraud, a call to choose when choice is impossible.

 

[electedbyHim]

That definition is predicated upon "total depravity", that due to inherent sinfulness, humans lack the capacity to choose God.

However, several Scriptures contradict the premise.

The command to choose God implies free will exists to choose, otherwise its a fraud:

1. Deuteronomy 30:19​

2. Joshua 24:15

3. Isaiah 1:18-20

4. Ezekiel 18:30-32

5. John 7:17

6. Romans 2:14-15

7. Acts 17:27-28

8. Revelation 3:20


Therefore, two options exist and in both the opportunity to choose God exists. 1)By previenent grace God enables human free will to be free and choose God. 2)Humans can choose God even without supernatural help.

To think otherwise is to declare these scriptures a fraud, a call to choose when choice is impossible.

Without the work of the Holy Spirit, no one "chooses" God.

The Scriptures you posted are truthful only when Holy Spirit regenerates a person to believe (choose) God.

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

To insist that humans are "good" enough to "choose" salvation, is to undermine the (Theology Proper) Sovereignty of God, providence, election, predestination and putting so-called human fre-will above God.

In other words, God is not sovereign over your salvation and human pride takes some credit in their salvation.

This is the exact reason many professing Christians hate the doctrine of God's Sovereignty.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Without the work of the Holy Spirit, no one "chooses" God.

The Scriptures you posted are truthful only when Holy Spirit regenerates a person to believe (choose) God.

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

To insist that humans are "good" enough to "choose" salvation, is to undermine the (Theology Proper) Sovereignty of God, providence, election, predestination and putting so-called human fre-will above God.

In other words, God is not sovereign over your salvation and human pride takes some credit in their salvation.

This is the exact reason many professing Christians hate the doctrine of God's Sovereignty.

I gave two options, the first included supernatural help. In both free will to choose exists, otherwise all those verses are a fraud. A command to choose when choice is impossible.

Therefore, your (Calvin's) definition of free will is UNSCRIPTURAL.

 

[brightfame52]

Hopeful 2

As men can't commit a sin until several years after their birth, they cannot be born in sin.
It takes a sin, to make a man dead in sin.
We weren't born that way.

Yes we are born dead,men died in Adam, sinned in Adam, so we be born dead Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

As babies, even though we may not have committed yet any actual sin, we still born dead and need to be born again.We are still born flesh, and sinful flesh at that Jn 3:6-7

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

If babies are born in sinful flesh, why was Jesus born of a virgin ?

 

[electedbyHim]

I gave two options, the first included supernatural help. In both free will to choose exists, otherwise all those verses are a fraud. A command to choose when choice is impossible.

Therefore, your (Calvin's) definition of free will is UNSCRIPTURAL.

That is your opinion.

A truhtful study of Systematic theology including Theology Proper, Soteriology as well as hamartiology and your opion is shaterred by Biblical truths.

Humans hava responsibility to come to God, but because of the sin nature and blinded by the god of this world, they cannot.

You would do well to define Biblical free will.

Let me help.

If “free will” means that God gives humans the opportunity to make choices that genuinely affect their destiny, then yes, human beings do have a free will. The world’s current sinful state is directly linked to choices made by Adam and Eve. God created mankind in His own image, and that included the ability to choose.

However, free will does not mean that mankind can do anything he pleases. Our choices are limited to what is in keeping with our nature. For example, a man may choose to walk across a bridge or not to walk across it; what he may not choose is to fly over the bridge—his nature prevents him from flying. In a similar way, a man cannot choose to make himself righteous—his (sin) nature prevents him from canceling his guilt (Romans 3:23). So, free will is limited by nature.

This limitation does not mitigate our accountability. The Bible is clear that we not only have the ability to choose, we also have the responsibility to choose wisely. In the Old Testament, God chose a nation (Israel), but individuals within that nation still bore an obligation to choose obedience to God. And individuals outside of Israel were able to choose to believe and follow God as well (e.g., Ruth and Rahab).

In the New Testament, sinners are commanded over and over to “repent” and “believe” (Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Acts 3:19; 1 John 3:23). Every call to repent is a call to choose. The command to believe assumes that the hearer can choose to obey the command.

Jesus identified the problem of some unbelievers when He told them, “You refuse to come to me to have life” (John 5:40). Clearly, they could have come if they wanted to; their problem was they chose not to. “A man reaps what he sows” (Galatians 6:7), and those who are outside of salvation are “without excuse” (Romans 1:20-21).

But how can man, limited by a sin nature, ever choose what is good? It is only through the grace and power of God that free will truly becomes “free” in the sense of being able to choose salvation (John 15:16). It is the Holy Spirit who works in and through a person’s will to regenerate that person (John 1:12-13) and give him/her a new nature “created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:24). Salvation is God’s work. At the same time, our motives, desires, and actions are voluntary, and we are rightly held responsible for them.

Gotquestions.org

 

[Alfred Persson]

That is your opinion.

A truhtful study of Systematic theology including Theology Proper, Soteriology as well as hamartiology and your opion is shaterred by Biblical truths.

 

[electedbyHim]

All you have is a meme?

How pathetic and immature in discussing the truths of God's word.

It is evident your opinion outweighs God's precious truth.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Alfred Persson]

All you have is a meme?

How pathetic and immature in discussing the truths of God's word.

It is evident your opinion outweighs God's precious truth.

Grace and peace to you.

I did what was appropriate, in perfect response to your non treatment of the texts I cited.

You gave a blanket rejection, so I responded with same.

Here, try again. Answer my argument, don't dismiss it out of hand with prattle:

Several Scriptures contradict the premise your definition relies on.

The command to choose God implies free will exists to choose, otherwise its a fraud:

1. Deuteronomy 30:19​

“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore, choose life, that you and your offspring may live.”

2. Joshua 24:15

“And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

3. Isaiah 1:18-20

“‘Come now, let us reason together,’ says the Lord: ‘though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be eaten by the sword; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.’”

4. Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

5. John 7:17

“If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.”

6. Romans 2:14-15

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.”

7. Acts 17:27-28

“That they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. For ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are indeed his offspring.’”

8. Revelation 3:20

“Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.”

Therefore, two options exist and in both the opportunity to choose God exists. 1)By previenent grace God enables human free will to be free and choose God. 2)Humans can choose God even without supernatural help.

To think otherwise is to declare these scriptures a fraud, a call to choose when choice is impossible.

 

[electedbyHim]

I did what was appropriate, in perfect response to your non treatment of the texts I cited.

You gave a blanket rejection, so I responded with same.

Here, try again. Answer my argument, don't dismiss it out of hand with prattle:

Several Scriptures contradict the premise your definition relies on.

The command to choose God implies free will exists to choose, otherwise its a fraud:

1. Deuteronomy 30:19​

2. Joshua 24:15

3. Isaiah 1:18-20

4. Ezekiel 18:30-32

5. John 7:17

6. Romans 2:14-15

7. Acts 17:27-28

8. Revelation 3:20


Therefore, two options exist and in both the opportunity to choose God exists. 1)By previenent grace God enables human free will to be free and choose God. 2)Humans can choose God even without supernatural help.

To think otherwise is to declare these scriptures a fraud, a call to choose when choice is impossible.

Again, as to some of your Scriptures, man can only "choose" if he is chosen by God.

How can a dead man choose life?

Define Biblical free will.

 

[brightfame52]

Alfred Persson

To think otherwise is to declare these scriptures a fraud, a call to choose when choice is impossible.

So have you studied all those verses in their proper context and gotten the proper sense of each ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thats the only thing that can change it, but man plays no part in that, he is totally passive. Jesus said Jn 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The words born again are in the passive voice, man must be acted upon, this is true because before that occurs, man is dead. Infact being born again is also being resurrected from the dead, so man has no freewill to choose to be born again or resurrected from the dead.

Man has the command to be born again, (John 3:7), so it must be something man can do.
Getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is how it is accomplished. (Rom 6:4)
And getting baptized is also a command we can either choose to obey, or disobey. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

 

[Hopeful 2]

A person is passive in the New Birth, not active, you are saying something contrary to scripture, saying you were active in being born again.

Rebirth was a command, and I obeyed. (John 3:7)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Well Jesus is God/Man keep that in mind

And the reborn abide in Him.
BTW, Jesus was the Word/man, if you want to look at it like Jesus had some unfair advantage to refuse temptations.
We now have what Jesus had !

 

[Hopeful 2]

This is what scripture calls sinful flesh Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

We enter this world with sinful flesh, dead in sin

Can you tell me what sin you were guilty of at your birth ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Without the work of the Holy Spirit, no one "chooses" God.

The Scriptures you posted are truthful only when Holy Spirit regenerates a person to believe (choose) God.

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

To insist that humans are "good" enough to "choose" salvation, is to undermine the (Theology Proper) Sovereignty of God, providence, election, predestination and putting so-called human fre-will above God.

In other words, God is not sovereign over your salvation and human pride takes some credit in their salvation.

This is the exact reason many professing Christians hate the doctrine of God's Sovereignty.

The "good" have no need to choose salvation.
It is the evil who choose to no longer be evil, that choose salvation.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful 2



Yes we are born dead,men died in Adam, sinned in Adam, so we be born dead Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

As babies, even though we may not have committed yet any actual sin, we still born dead and need to be born again.We are still born flesh, and sinful flesh at that Jn 3:6-7

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

If babies are born in sinful flesh, why was Jesus born of a virgin ?

Your doctrine condemns the innocent.