Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

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and that is twisting scripture to be born again we must FIRST call upon the Lord to be saved one must be lost first
No its the Truth. If a person calls upon the name of the Lord, they have already been saved born anew], otherwise man doesnt even seek after God Rom 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

So how does a spiritually dead man call upon Him who he doesnt even seek or desire, nor understand ? He doesnt !
 
So how does a spiritually dead man call upon Him who he doesnt even seek or desire, nor understand ? He doesnt !
well then i guess your not as saved as you think. once God draws us in then we either call upon the name of the LORD for salvation or we reject
Hebrews 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
for some odd reason you make it sound like the prices right .

peter wrote The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

yes your next step is to redefine us ward GOD speaks to the Lost man your like a broken record keep repeating your self. this is why i dont keep trying to discuss this your trained just like the Jehovah witness .

so if you had a person come to you saying i want to be saved ..you would say you cant you must wait for God to chose you .. even though john 3:16-17 clearly tells us the price had done been paid at Calvary.


that is unless you have a different Calvary than me .
 
So you have to already be saved to
get saved. We have the infinite regression here, Thank you for the discussion. This is likely endpoint as the irrational has been reached.

Fine to end discussion but I won't do so with you mischaracterizing my reply. Salvation occurs
only once and that it has occurred can be demonstrated in various ways. One way is to become
hyper aware of our fallen condition which then leads to us crying out to God and seeking God
because we have come to know that we are entirely dependent His mercy for eternal salvation and
completely powerless to bring it about of ourselves. This brings a desire to understand about Christ and to grow in Him as Lord, Saviour and God. Crying out to God, if I understood you correctly, can be a manifestation of that awareness which can be a byproduct of having become saved by God alone.
Nothing we may do can bring about our salvation but believing we can means that we haven't been.
 
That is an untrue statement.

No, it's not. Any work on our part for salvation is an attempt to take away from the efficacy of Christ's perfect offering.

[Rom 4:4 KJV] 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

He is indeed our Savior, but there are no liars, adulterers, thieves, or blasphemers of the Holy Ghost going to heaven.
Ergo, we can't lie, steal, blaspheme the Holy Ghost, or commit adultery...in order to be saved.
You can't have it both ways.
The disobedient will all perish.
All of us are of those things until becoming saved. After which, we change, with none becoming perfect.
Look at how Paul described himself and we know beyond question Paul was saved.

[1Ti 1:13-15 KJV]
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

[Rom 7:23-25 KJV]
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This is how Paul describes the total efficacy of Christ's offering:

[Heb 10:12, 14, 17 KJV]
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; ...
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. ...
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Jesus did His part.
But we have a part to play too.
No, we don't. Jesus is the one and only Saviour, we are not, and He is the Saviour in ALL ways.
If we have any part to play, then we must play ALL of the parts, not just one or some: it's all or nothing.

Which one of the Mosaic Laws Paul preached against mention hearing, believing, repentance, or baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins?
And Jesus Himself said that only those who endure till the end will be saved.
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24:13)
Was He in error?

Only those saved will/can endure to the end and do so from salvation. Remember, the manifestation of
salvation has two parts: 1) positionally when God places someone under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and takes them from the law of sin and death sometime during their lives, and 2) at the end of time ( the day of the Lord Jesus) when they shall not experience God's actual wrath. The "shall be saved", is referring to 2, not 1.

Which laws? As pertaining to becoming saved, all of them.

[Gal 2:14-16 KJV]
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

It is the Law that Paul preached against in order to nullify circumcision, mainly, but also dietary rules, feast keeping, tithing, and such.
I hope you realize that your doctrine is just another accommodation for sin.
If we can't resist temptation, because it is a work, doing evil becomes the Christian's way.

If you trust in yourself to make yourself worthy of salvation, then you are in great jeopardy indeed.
In your reply above you've taken liberties with my statements. My point was that the saving of someone is God's
work through Christ, not ours. Only after becoming saved can someone truly do good works, because before that,
they didn't and couldn't know what good works are truly are. My doctrine (as you call it) makes no accommodation for sin, in fact, those saved by God are under greater scrutiny by God not to sin or they suffer greater and greater punishment until they cease from it. This, however, does not save them but instead is a result of salvation and of being a son
[Heb 12:7-8 KJV]
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Have you ever thought that it is by the grace of God that we can hear, repent of sin, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and endure faithfully until the end?

Yes, I've thought about it and found it not possible. How can that be God's grace if it does not result in salvation? God's grace in the spiritual, if given, has to result in salvation
We are clearly informed in the Bible of God's grace:

[Eph 2:6-8 KJV]
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Why are there any exhortations at all in Paul's letters to the churches?
I mean, nothing really matters if your doctrine is right.

Not true. We as Christians have to be taught the doctrines of Christianity. We do not wake up one morning
knowing everything. The difference is that those saved see and learn through a renewed spiritual mind, given to them by the Holy Spirit and no longer by the earthly mind we were born with. They absorb those doctrines and learn thereof of God's mercy and grace.

[Eph 4:12-13 KJV]
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
 
Hebrews 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
for some odd reason you make it sound like the prices right .
Refusing Him that speaketh is a refusal to acknowledge the gospel. That is not the same thing as
being drawn to Christ. Many who are exposed to the gospel reject it.
However, none of those whom God draws can reject being drawn nor can they reject the gospel. Those who God draws must become saved.
 
Refusing Him that speaketh is a refusal to acknowledge the gospel. That is not the same thing as
being drawn to Christ. Many who are exposed to the gospel reject it.
However, none of those whom God draws can reject being drawn nor can they reject the gospel. Those who God draws must become saved.
thus saith Calvinist your adding to the word..
 
its your alleged scripture not mine
So, we are told that all the Father GIVETH to the Son, will be raised up on the last day, and of those whom the Father GAVE to the Son, will not be cast out. Those whom the Father has not given to the Son cannot come to the Son.
So, therefore, all that the Father gave MUST become saved, and those the Father did not give, cannot become saved.

[Jhn 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Jhn 6:37 KJV] 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
 
He is speaking of every single person on earth by nature, that is seen by the word NONE Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
That a person doesn't understand someone is different from not having the capacity to understand someone, in this case, our God.
 
He is putting the whole human race into two categories. If you are not a Jew, then you are a Gentile. That included American Indians, Eskimo's, Germans, French and so forth.
Yes, I know. He had been doing so since the 1st chapter. Try reading Rom.1, then ask if Paul believes no one on earth has the ability to believe in God.
 
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jerry

well then i guess your not as saved as you think. once God draws us in then we either call upon the name of the LORD for salvation or we reject

Thats wrong, when God draws us, we are saved by that. A saved person is the only person that call upon the name of the Lord. They were saved from spiritual death when God began drawing them.
 
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jerry

so if you had a person come to you saying i want to be saved ..you would say you cant you must wait for God to chose you .. even though john 3:16-17 clearly tells us the price had done been paid at Calvary.

If someone came to me and said that, I will witness to them the Gospel of Gods Grace, and its Gods business if they are saved and believe on Jesus Christ.
 
That a person doesn't understand someone is different from not having the capacity to understand someone, in this case, our God.
None understand God nor seek God period ! Why cant you believe ? Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Believe it and quit trying to get around it friend.
 
Yes, I know. He had been doing so since the 1st chapter. Try reading Rom.1, then ask if Paul believes no one on earth has the ability to believe in God.

Those of Romans 1 didn't/couldn't believe for the same reason those of the below didn't/couldn't believe

[Jhn 12:37, 39-40 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: ...
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

and...

[Jhn 6:63, 65-66 KJV]
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. ...
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Even some of His disciples who saw first-hand His miracles and His actions COULD NOT believe.
 
None understand God nor seek God period ! Why cant you believe ? Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Believe it and quit trying to get around it friend.
I haven't "gone around" anything you've cited. I discuss the scripture you cite, which agrees with the scripture I cite, like this,

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world may be held accountable to God. Rom.3:19

The reason for the law is contrary to what you believe, because it's for the welfare of every mouth" and "the whole world." Why? Because everyone has the ability to understand it if they want to.
 
Those of Romans 1 didn't/couldn't believe for the same reason those of the below didn't/couldn't believe

[Jhn 12:37, 39-40 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: ...
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
So some wanted to continue in sin, instead of repent.
and...

[Jhn 6:63, 65-66 KJV]
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. ...
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Even some of His disciples who saw first-hand His miracles and His actions COULD NOT believe.
In Jn.6, Jesus said something difficult (not impossible) to understand about his nature. They questioned his authority, so he said,

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Jn.6:45

in other words, If they really loved God, they would be drawn to Jesus.