Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[rogerg]

You have the wrong idea about "works".
Paul refuted works for salvation, but the only works he ever referred to were the works of the Law...ie, circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, tithing, etc.
Don't deny yourself hearing, believing, repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and enduring faithfully to the end because you were mistaught that they are not allowed.
That notion is of the devil, who doesn't want men to hear, believe, repent, get baptized, or endure.

Works are works. Work of any kind which are deemed necessary on our part for salvation, invalidate Christ as Saviour:
it can't be both ways - either Christ is fully and completely the Saviour or He is not. If He is not,
then we must fully and completely be our own Saviour which would be impossible for us to achieve.
For those who believe that "hearing, believing, repentance from sin" ETC, are a prerequisite to salvation, they remain under law because law is that which makes those things necessary - otherwise they wouldn't be. In other words, anything, anything, that is not given solely of grace, is of law and law requires works. However, Christ's offering took those saved out from under the law.
Also, no one can truly believe, hear repent until they have become saved - they are as an outgrowth of salvation.

[Rom 6:14 KJV] 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[Eph 5:9 KJV] 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

[1Co 15:56 KJV] 56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

 

[rogerg]

That is a pity because as I described it is exactly what it is described as in the Bible. People hear the word, feel conviction, and respond in different ways. That is what is there. I am sorry you reject it.

If anyone truly hears the word, feels conviction, (not sure what you mean by feel conviction in different ways?), then they have already been saved and those are the results of it.

 

[rogerg]

We disagree.
Context seems not to be a factor of your findings.

Hmmm. Well okay for whatever that means.

 

[pierac]

Then all the billions who end up in hell were chosen by God to go there!!! They were never a “whosoever will” but before birth destined for Hell!! No hope and no mercy!!

I'm sorry... but every one who has ever lived is in Hell... except Jesus.... He was only in Hell for 3 days.... You do know the word Hell in scriptures actually means the grave! The wages of sin is death.... and we will all go the the grave/hell! Unless Jesus happens to return at the right moment of you and I...

Think about this.... Why did Jesus appear in history??? He tells you... Luk 4:43 But He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, for I was sent for this purpose."

Was Jesus sent to save humanity from burning in a fire for eterinity or to preach kingdom of God? What Did Jesus say?

Really Dorothy Mae... from you post... you see what others can not... Let me explain.
John told us many times God is love... Yet, neither you or I as created beings of God... could ever come close to having more love than our God!!!

I'm pretty sure your like me in that..... You would never burn a human in a fire for eterinity! Even Hitler should not burn for Eternity.... OK maybe a few hundred years... Perhaps a thousand years... even a millon or billion years... but Eternity... I think NOT! We are not better than the God of love that create us!

Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Just what does this mean?

Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

1Jo 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Propitiation
1. The act of appeasing wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; the act of making propitious.
2. In theology, the atonement or atoning sacrifice offered to God to assuage his wrath and render him propitious to sinners. Christ is the propitiation for the sins of men. Rom 3. 1 John 2.

Believe... The other Paul

1Ti 4:9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things.

1Ti 2:3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires2309 all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Note: “desires2309” In 1 Titus 2:4 is assigned Strong’s number 2309

θέλω / ἐθέλω thelō / ethelō Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon Definition: 1) to will, have in mind, intend

Really.... Your confusing the traditions of men's of Heaven vs Hell! With the coming kindgom!

Now Dorothy Mae...

What does God say on this matter!!!

Isa 46:10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient time’s things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'

1Ti 4:9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things.

Dorothy.... You and I do not love humanity more than our God! Eternal torment... Please such Greek nonsense!!!

Believe... Titus 2:4 is assigned Strong’s number 2309
θέλω / ἐθέλω thelō / ethelō Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon Definition: 1) to will, have in mind, intend

If God wills it.... you bet your (love of God) it will be done!!!
Read my post again and start to see...
Paul

 

[brightfame52]

Sit with any child for an hour. Explain that God exists. When you're done, that child will believe that God exists.

You would think men would believe the simple statement Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[Whatever]

The thoughts of mens hearts became "only evil continually" over time.

Don't think so. Right after the flood when there were only 8 people alive and Noah offered a sacrifice, God said:
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom.1:21

But what did Paul mean by "Knew God?"
Rom 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

We call this natural revelation. If this was enough, why did God pick out one nation and send them prophets and all kinds of miracles? Psa147:19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel.

 

[brightfame52]

Look at vs.10. He's speaking of Jews and gentiles, not every individual on Earth.

He is speaking of every single person on earth by nature, that is seen by the word NONE Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[Whatever]

Sit with any child for an hour. Explain that God exists. When you're done, that child will believe that God exists

They will also believe in the Easter bunny. That is not saving faith.

 

[Whatever]

Look at vs.10. He's speaking of Jews and gentiles, not every individual on Earth.

He is putting the whole human race into two categories. If you are not a Jew, then you are a Gentile. That included American Indians, Eskimo's, Germans, French and so forth.

 

[rogerg]

So let us say for clarification, there is none that diligently seeketh after God.

I don't find diligently in there, but don't understand the significance of your comment.
ekzēteō (Key)

1. to seek out, search for
2. to seek out, i.e. investigate, scrutinise
3. to seek out for one's self, beg, crave
4. to demand back, require

Scripture says the way we were created, that we were all given the measure of faith and that we were created in God's own image. So no matter how far away we fall from God, we still carry the God DNA in our being.

Not meaning that God has given to everyone some faith, instead, meaning THE measure of faith. That is, the ability to measure faith: Christ's faith... but first consider who Paul was addressing that statement to. It was to those saved. Only the saved have a perception of the depth of Christ's faith and of His faithfulness.

[Rom 12:1-3 KJV]
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

(they were of the "brethren"; that is, they were those who had been saved. How? By the mercies of God)

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(with salvation had God given them a renewed mind. From that renewed mind, were they given wisdom to
be able to do that which is truly the good, acceptable, and perfect will of God)

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

("to every man that is among you". To whom? To the brethren: those saved. To those did God gave an ability to measure faith: to measure the faith of Christ - that Christ was fully faithful to the Father in all ways). However, God also does give us faith in Christ as a gift to those whom He has chosen and saves as a fruit of the Spirit)

Man was only in the image of God before Adam and Eve's transgression, not after.

The DNA which can cause a man who has never heard the Gospel to cry out unto Him, (If there is a God save me I am about to die!) when they are facng death. Apparently that happens a lot and why they say that, there are no atheists in foxholes!

God is Spirit - He doesn't have DNA, man does.

It must be some sort of DNA safety valve thingy that God put in us so that we can cry out to Him when we are in dire circumstances. Because I sure have heard plenty of testimonies from different people that this happened to, they was no christian, drug addicts and stuff, all sorts of sub cultureisms (lol).

Okay, but crying out to God about the things of this world is not truly crying out to God. Crying out to God for salvation is, and because a person does so probably means they already have been saved. The things of this world aren't the things of God. That which is of God is of the world to come:

[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

[1Jo 2:15 KJV] 15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

 

[brightfame52]

roger

I don't find diligently in there, but don't understand the significance of your comment.
ekzēteō (Key)

1. to seek out, search for
2. to seek out, i.e. investigate, scrutinise
3. to seek out for one's self, beg, crave
4. to demand back, require

Im not by no means taking sides with that poster. However the word for seek in Rom 3:11 is the same greek word in Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So that seeking is the fruit of Faith, yet man naturally doesnt seek God, so that would mean man naturally doesnt seek God by Faith. In fact he doesnt even have that ability to seek God by Faith.

 

[Hopeful]

Works are works. Work of any kind which are deemed necessary on our part for salvation, invalidate Christ as Saviour:

That is an untrue statement.

it can't be both ways - either Christ is fully and completely the Saviour or He is not. If He is not,

He is indeed our Savior, but there are no liars, adulterers, thieves, or blasphemers of the Holy Ghost going to heaven.
Ergo, we can't lie, steal, blaspheme the Holy Ghost, or commit adultery...in order to be saved.
You can't have it both ways.
The disobedient will all perish.

then we must fully and completely be our own Saviour which would be impossible for us to achieve.

Jesus did His part.
But we have a part to play too.

For those who believe that "hearing, believing, repentance from sin" ETC, are a prerequisite to salvation, they remain under law because law is that which makes those things necessary

Which one of the Mosaic Laws Paul preached against mention hearing, believing, repentance, or baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins?
And Jesus Himself said that only those who endure till the end will be saved.
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24:13)
Was He in error?

- otherwise they wouldn't be. In other words, anything, anything, that is not given solely of grace, is of law and law requires works. However, Christ's offering took those saved out from under the law.

It is the Law that Paul preached against in order to nullify circumcision, mainly, but also dietary rules, feast keeping, tithing, and such.
I hope you realize that your doctrine is just another accommodation for sin.
If we can't resist temptation, because it is a work, doing evil becomes the Christian's way.

Also, no one can truly believe, hear repent until they have become saved - they are as an outgrowth of salvation.

You seem unaware of the day of judgement that is still ahead of us.
It is written..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

[Rom 6:14 KJV] 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[Eph 5:9 KJV] 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
[1Co 15:56 KJV] 56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

Have you ever thought that it is by the grace of God that we can hear, repent of sin, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and endure faithfully until the end?

Why are there any exhortations at all in Paul's letters to the churches?
I mean, nothing really matters if your doctrine is right.

 

[Hopeful]

Works are works. Work of any kind which are deemed necessary on our part for salvation, invalidate Christ as Saviour:

That is an untrue statement.

it can't be both ways - either Christ is fully and completely the Saviour or He is not. If He is not,

He is indeed our Savior, but there are no liars, adulterers, thieves, or blasphemers of the Holy Ghost going to heaven.
Ergo, we can't lie, steal, blaspheme the Holy Ghost, or commit adultery...in order to be saved.
You can't have it both ways.
The disobedient will all perish.

then we must fully and completely be our own Saviour which would be impossible for us to achieve.

Jesus did His part.
But we have a part to play too.

For those who believe that "hearing, believing, repentance from sin" ETC, are a prerequisite to salvation, they remain under law because law is that which makes those things necessary

Which one of the Mosaic Laws Paul preached against mention hearing, believing, repentance, or baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins?
And Jesus Himself said that only those who endure till the end will be saved.
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24:13)
Was He in error?

- otherwise they wouldn't be. In other words, anything, anything, that is not given solely of grace, is of law and law requires works. However, Christ's offering took those saved out from under the law.

It is the Law that Paul preached against in order to nullify circumcision, mainly, but also dietary rules, feast keeping, tithing, and such.
I hope you realize that your doctrine is just another accommodation for sin.
If we can't resist temptation, because it is a work, doing evil becomes the Christian's way.

Also, no one can truly believe, hear repent until they have become saved - they are as an outgrowth of salvation.

You seem unaware of the day of judgement that is still ahead of us.
It is written..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

[Rom 6:14 KJV] 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[Eph 5:9 KJV] 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
[1Co 15:56 KJV] 56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

Have you ever thought that it is by the grace of God that we can hear, repent of sin, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and endure faithfully until the end?

Why are there any exhortations at all in Paul's letters to the churches?
I mean, nothing really matters if your doctrine is right.

 

[Hopeful]

You would think men would believe the simple statement Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Do you really feel that since the time of Jesus on earth, and the availability of salvation in/through Christ, that a scripture from Psalm 53 still holds true?
I don't, as everyone in the church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21) sought after God.

 

[Hopeful]

He is speaking of every single person on earth by nature, that is seen by the word NONE Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Have you sought after God?

 

[Hopeful]

roger


Im not by no means taking sides with that poster. However the word for seek in Rom 3:11 is the same greek word in Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So that seeking is the fruit of Faith, yet man naturally doesnt seek God, so that would mean man naturally doesnt seek God by Faith. In fact he doesnt even have that ability to seek God by Faith.

If man hears about a God of deliverance, they can have faith in Him.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If anyone truly hears the word, feels conviction, (not sure what you mean by feel conviction in different ways?), then they have already been saved and those are the results of it.

So you have to already be saved to
get saved. We have the infinite regression here, Thank you for the discussion. This is likely endpoint as the irrational has been reached.

I heard a guy on youtube express something I thought wise. I’d rather you be a Calvinist than an atheist so I do rejoice that you are in Christ.

Adieu

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ever heard of the word "synonym"?

You can’t admit you were incorrect. “Want” is not the same as “hunger or thirst.”

I’m moving on.

 

[jerry63935]

Yes men call upon the name of the Lord after they are born again.

and that is twisting scripture to be born again we must FIRST call upon the Lord to be saved one must be lost first

 

[brightfame52]

Without Gods interposition no man can come to Jesus Christ, meaning believe n Him Jn 6:44,65 and agreeably without the same of the Son no man can know or come to the Father Jn 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Without God, His Grace and Spirit no man even seeks after the True God, man doesnt have even the slightest inkling of desire for the One and True God, and in fact is ignorant of Him and for all intents and purposes without any hope regarding God, the True God. Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 8