Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[Dorothy Mae]

That whole nation (Israel) taking the good news to the world didn't work out very well did it?

It certainly did. Inside of 40 years the gospel had been preached throughout the mediterranean basin and into Africa, as far as India and into England. Those were the “messianic jews” although not ashamed to call themselves christians in those days. Paul had announced that “the gospel had been preached to the whole world” …and then the end of the old covenant came.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, the exact perfect example is Lazarus who had been dead 4 days. How did he hear Jesus say "come forth?"

Lazarus heard Jesus' voice because life itself went out with the command.

You know that for sure? You know the inner workings of how God operates in power.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Really? Well, if you meant "sin" in the sense of an carnal sin of the flesh, you should ask if anyone had bothered to tell that to King David who was God's prophet and who nevertheless sinned repeatedly in the flesh yet knew and understood Christ intimately.

I'm glad you cited David, because Paul cited him too,

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. Psa.51:4, Rom.3:4

It's obvious Paul is teaching in Rom. 3 how people who commit sin (which we all have) aren't seeking God, yet this doesn't mean we can't repent. Psa.51 is a great prayer of repentance.

Same thing with Saul/Paul, his sin was worse - it was his mission to destroy Christianity. Even after salvation Paul referred to himself after as the "chief of sinners".

Every Christian should view himself this way, because our sins are no different from the sin of nailing God to a cross.

However, the sin which neither committed, nor does anyone who is saved ever commit, is the sin of not having an all-encompassing and total trust in Christ's offering for the forgiveness of sin and of Him as Saviour.

Please understand that "Christs' offering for the forgivness of sin" was his goodness and forbearance in not ripping the heads off vile men who tortured him.

I think the difficulty you have is that you can't fathom the size or depth of the forgiveness given to those
whom God has chosen for forgiveness: He forgives them to the uttermost before they understand or seek Christ.
Their understanding of Christ comes about from/by/after that they are forgiven.

God ordained that people who decide to repent will be forgiven,

to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Isa.66:2

So repentance comes first.

It's not hard to understand what you've said, it's impossible to understand because you either don't understand or you've misrepresented those verses. Where in them do you find "learned about God"? It simply is not there. Instead, they say learned "OF God", meaning that they must learn FROM/BY God; that is, that God must first teach them - that is the only way it can happen. The point is that they CANNOT learn OF God unless having been drawn BY God: they must be drawn BY God to be saved. That God does not draw everyone is evidenced by the fact that not everyone becomes saved. The "all" of v45 is of the "draw him" of v44 -- it is not for everyone ever born, if that's what you meant. He precisely tells us - using your phrase -- that He "puts a spiritual magnate on some people". How can someone love either Jesus or God if they don't know Jesus or God and only God's teaching of them can make that happen.
Those who were infuriated, were so because then as now, natural man cannot bear to hear that salvation is not within their power or choice to achieve, but only God's to give to whomsoever He may choose to. So then, why is it that you are unable to understand that?

Because you're saying God sent all the Prophets and recorded the scriptures for no reason.
And as I pointed out before, context dominates meaning. His point is, people who love him know God, which is why,

After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. Jn.7:1

(The religious leaders, not every Jew.)

 

[journeymanisnothing]

They also deeply insult the character of God insisting He cruelty rejects some for salvation condemning them to hell before they were born.

It's very sad. How could any parent, or friend of a loved one, look at them going astray and say, "Go to hell"?????

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's very sad. How could any parent, or friend of a loved one, look at them going astray and say, "Go to hell"?????

Some of them harden their hearts to this and say more or less, “God condemns some unjustly to hell…get over it.”

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Some of them harden their hearts to this and say more or less, “God condemns some unjustly to hell…get over it.”

Calvanists don't use those words, but that is in fact what they mean. It's true that even though innocent children grow up to be sinners, the point is, God being unfeeling toward anyone is like taking your new born infant and throwing her out the window.

I don't know what else can be said, except are there Christians who truly believe Jesus wasn't showing the love of God to everyone?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Calvanists don't use those words, but that is in fact what they mean. It's true that even though innocent children grow up to be sinners, the point is, God being unfeeling toward anyone is like taking your new born infant and throwing her out the window.

I don't know what else can be said, except are there Christians who truly believe Jesus wasn't showing the love of God to everyone?

Yes, it’s true. They use different words like essentially “just focus on the fact that He saved some. We’re all undeserving so at least He saved some. Isn’t it great that you and I are among them?”

The Puritans knew of the possibility that they were, in fact, NOT among the elect and so decided that God blesses the elect materially in this life. As a result they worked hard to show (themselves) that since they were materially blessed, they were among the elect. Ergo, the Puritan work ethic. Todays calvinist don’t go there.

 

[rogerg]

It's obvious Paul is teaching in Rom. 3 how people who commit sin (which we all have) aren't seeking God, yet this doesn't mean we can't repent. Psa.51 is a great prayer of repentance.

The point was that those saved are saved regardless of what they are not because of it. Once saved, both David and Paul
never stopped being saved regardless of any sins they committed.

Every Christian should view himself this way, because our sins are no different from the sin of nailing God to a cross.

Christ was nailed to the cross for all Christians.

Please understand that "Christs' offering for the forgivness of sin" was his goodness and forbearance in not ripping the heads off vile men who tortured him.

Which verses are you referring to?

Because you're saying God sent all the Prophets and recorded the scriptures for no reason.
And as I pointed out before, context dominates meaning. His point is, people who love him know God, which is why,

After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. Jn.7:1

Huh? I never said that. The point was that no one can know or love God until being taught of God.
How can someone love somebody they don't know?

 

[Whatever]

You know that for sure? You know the inner workings of how God operates in power.

I don't have to know the inner workings of God. I just have to believe what the Bible says.
John_5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes and,

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Rom.2:4

So people who claim salvation isn't offered to every individual on Earth, despise Christs sacrifice, and longsuffering

Now you going into another matter, salvation isnt offered, its given to Gods elect freely as a Gift, and the natural man is dead to God, has no desire for God nor the things of God.

 

[Whatever]

It certainly did. Inside of 40 years the gospel had been preached throughout the mediterranean basin and into Africa, as far as India and into England. Those were the “messianic jews” although not ashamed to call themselves christians in those days. Paul had announced that “the gospel had been preached to the whole world” …and then the end of the old covenant came.

Yeah, but it wasn't the whole nation that did this. They kept up their OT practices, temple worship, animal sacrifices, and persecuting Christians.

 

[Whatever]

hen did that nature start? From babyhood? Do those words describe what babies do?

Yes. You are not very observant. It doesn't take long before they throw temper tantrums, get jealous, hit others. Yeah, a little baby is too weak and not able to do anything, but let them grow a little bigger and stronger.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yeah, but it wasn't the whole nation that did this. They kept up their OT practices, temple worship, animal sacrifices, and persecuting Christians.

Didn’t need to be the whole nation spreading the Gospel. But the disciples were Jews. Even Pentecost saw 3000 Jews added to the church. The Jews spread the Gospel initially. The plan worked perfectly. When the Mosaic covenant ended in 70 AD, the church was freed up from that age.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes. You are not very observant.

First off, the personal insult. I’ve ignored the previous ones but please work on focusing on the argument not on the abilities of the other person.

It doesn't take long before they throw temper tantrums, get jealous, hit others.

Sorry but that just doesn’t describe mine nor those of my friends and family. They weren’t jealous but I knew how to prevent that. They didn’t ever hit. Not once.

Yeah, a little baby is too weak and not able to do anything, but let them grow a little bigger and stronger.

In some homes this is more common. Maybe if it’s expected it happens. We didn’t expect it and so it didn’t happen.

Now it’s not that my kids weren’t ever naughty. But there were no hitting, biting, or temper tantrums. But my kids grew up until grade school in a home with their grandparents and great grandmother who loved them. They got a love of love from different adults.

My son was more naughty and my daughter more stubborn but none of the words written by Paul described them as babies, toddlers, teens or adults. Their feet weren’t swift to shed blood. They mouths weren’t spewing out curses. Violence wasn’t in their hands or whatever.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't have to know the inner workings of God. I just have to believe what the Bible says.
John_5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.

Isn’t doesn’t say how, but it’s a fairly minor point. Maybe you’re right on that one so I defer to your position.

 

[rogerg]

sn’t doesn’t say how, but it’s a fairly minor point. Maybe you’re right on that one so I defer to your position.

It does say: "even so the Son gives life to whom He will". Major point.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It does say: "even so the Son gives life to whom He will". Major point.

But He wills all men repent and come to a knowledge of the truth. Huge point…all peoples everywhere.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sorry but that just doesn’t describe mine nor those of my friends and family. They weren’t jealous but I knew how to prevent that. They didn’t ever hit. Not once.


Correction: It just occurred to me that my niece was extremely jealous. My sister-in-law had to lock the sleeping baby in her room and HIDE the key, But it’s easy to see why the 2 year old was jealous. Love was sparingly given.

Correction: It just occurred to me that my niece was extremely jealous. My sister-in-law had to lock the sleeping baby in her room and HIDE the key, But it’s easy to see why the 2 year old was jealous. She even bit other children. Love was sparingly given in that household.

 

[rogerg]

But He wills all men repent and come to a knowledge of the truth. Huge point…all peoples everywhere.

This is the Father's will:

[Jhn 6:39 KJV] 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The Father's will (for good) is only unto those whom He has given to Jesus, but not to everyone. And only those given
will Christ lose none -- those not given can never come to repentance, truth or salvation. We know this because they
will not be raised up again on the last day, otherwise, they would be.

 

[Hopeful]

When did I describe Christian’s as that??

You said it to rogerg in Post #247.

You too.

Your answer here is to your own post (#247)

You are joking right? Many won’t obey God at the cost of their good opinion of themselves or if their opinions in general.

It is apparent that we have different descriptions of "Christian".