Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[jasonc]

Joel Olsteen attracts a much larger crowd than that, like 10 times as large EVERY week!!

Osteen isn't a believer

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Osteen isn't a believer

Well, the measure of a good preacher was supposedly the number of people who came to listen according to one poster. Thought I’d show that this is not at all impressive. Popularity is not a mark of good preaching.

 

[jasonc]

Well, the measure of a good preacher was supposedly the number of people who came to listen according to one poster. Thought I’d show that this is not at all impressive. Popularity is not a mark of good preaching.

The difference is that often in arminist circles , spurgeon is respected and quoted.

I would take him over most I today's church pastors .why?

His honesty on depression alone .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The difference is that often in arminist circles , spurgeon is respected and quoted.

I would take him over most I today's church pastors .why?

His honesty on depression alone .

I’ve never heard a single sermon from him. Not one. So I have no opinion one way or another.

But what I can say is I have no automatic respect for preachers wildly popular with the masses. I evaluate a tree by its fruit, not by the compliments the visitors lavish on the tree. I’ve just learned too many very disturbing truths about preachers admired by the world.

But I agree with you that most modern preachers today aren’t good. Few are worth listening to.

 

[jasonc]

I’ve never heard a single sermon from him. Not one. I have no opinion one way or another.

But what I can say is I have no automatic respect for preachers wildly popular with the masses. I evaluate a tree by its fruit, not by the compliments the visitors lavish on the tree. I’ve just learned too many very disturbing truths about preachers admired by the world.

I read up on him.

He died before 1900 .

Old church grave yards . Often have headstones with dead called home to Jesus .

My avatar is one

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I read up on him.

He died before 1900 .

Old church grave yards . Often have headstones with dead called home to Jesus .

My avatar is one

interesting.

 

[jasonc]

I listen to both on the debate

 

[Whatever]

Joel Olsteen attracts a much larger crowd than that, like 10 times as large EVERY week!!

But Spurgeon was over 100 years ago, in England and without TV and the Internet.

 

[jasonc]

interesting.

Georgia has these but much of the south will and the early colonial areas.perhaps the old Spanish colonies as well .Oregon territory too.

 

[brightfame52]

Mike Mcinnis writes:

David said, “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” (Psa 14:1). A cursory reading of what David is saying, might lead one to believe that he is describing an Atheist, i.e.; one who denies the existence of GOD. Yet a more in depth look at the man he is describing, leads us to understand that he is actually recounting the state of the natural man who is in rebellion against GOD. For he goes on to describe the condition of all men by nature as they spring from the loins of their father, Adam. “They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” (Psa 14:1)

He further develops this truth, saying, “The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Psa 14:2-3) Paul quotes the same passage in his epistle to the Romans, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Rom 3:10-12) http://www.gracechapelobrien.net/gg_17_06.html

Man naturally doesnt seek the True God, we are by nature practical atheist when it comes to the True God.

 

[Whatever]

So God so loved creation (rocks and trees) but not people

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Actually He didn’t say he loved all creation but the world so that He sent his son. You’re changing the meaning.

Not changing the meaning. That word is Kosmos. Here it is used 3 more times:

John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written

Acts 17:24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

You also oppose the scripture that says God wants all
men to repent and come to a knowledge of the truth.

No I don't. I just oppose your universalist understanding of that verse.
1Ti 2:4 who desires (thelo) all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

thelo (G2309), "to will, to wish," implying volition and purpose.
What does God tell us Himself about his will or purpose?

Isa 46:11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.

If God desires something, they He will do it. So, how about that word again "all men." I know we have gone over this before and you keep ignoring it. That little word "pas" can mean two things.
1. All men without exception. Your view.
2. All men without distinction. What I believe the passage is saying. Why do I say that? Because of what was said above, God will do all His purpose.

So, if God desires all men to be saved, how come all are not saved? Go ahead and come back with your free will excuse. You say God desires all men to be saved, not desires all men to have a chance to make a choice. There is a big difference.

If God desires all kinds of men without distinction, to be saved, then He does bring it to pass.

Rev. 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

So, who is changing the meaning of 1 Timothy 2:4? The person who says He desires something that never comes to pass, or the person who says that what He desires does come to pass.

 

[Whatever]

Since none of you will actually look at what is written, I am right.

I'll let the lurkers who read these posts decide who "actually look at what is written."

 

[Whatever]

Paul’s writings were recognized as inspired by God. No one says this about those pieces.

Paul tells us that God has gifted the Church with teachers. Who despises God's gifts?

 

[electedbyHim]

God is not a mystery to me. Sorry but I really do understand Him. I know what He does and why when I’m involved in some way.

I didn’t say they don’t love God. I said they love Him for what He gives them. You said so yourself.

Oh yes, since then I’ve observed them in action.

Not surprising

God is not a mystery to me. Sorry but I really do understand Him. I know what He does and why when I’m involved in some way.

We can only understand God by what He reveals to us in His written word. It is very dangerous to think one understands completely what the Scriptures teach.

I mean unless you are one of those who think God talks to them in a personal way.

Isaiah 55:8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares Yahweh.

Isaiah 55:9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 11:34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?

1Corinthians. 2:11 For who among men knows the depths of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the depths of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

I didn’t say they don’t love God. I said they love Him for what He gives them. You said so yourself.

Of course. We love Him because He first loved us. The unregenerate cannot love God. Why wouldn't I love God for what He has done for me through His salvation. He doesn't love me for what I did for Him, but I would suppose there are people who believe that.

Not surprising

Why would I feel sorry for those who claim to be Christian and not even want to study both sides of the coin, to see the truth scripture teaches. (Arminian/Calvinism)

I tell you the truth, those that claim that they had a hand in salvation and coming to God are the most self-righteous prideful, bosting people I have ever met. Some of your responses reflect this.

Grace and peace to you

 

[electedbyHim]

I’ve never heard a single sermon from him. Not one. So I have no opinion one way or another.

But what I can say is I have no automatic respect for preachers wildly popular with the masses. I evaluate a tree by its fruit, not by the compliments the visitors lavish on the tree. I’ve just learned too many very disturbing truths about preachers admired by the world.

But I agree with you that most modern preachers today aren’t good. Few are worth listening to.

What preachers do you listen to? What denomination are you affiliated with?

There are a handful of pastor/teachers today who are men of God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Paul tells us that God has gifted the Church with teachers. Who despises God's gifts?

Doesn’t mean that everyone who stands up and teaches is gifted by God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What preachers do you listen to? What denomination are you affiliated with?

There are a handful of pastor/teachers today who are men of God.

Different ones. You probably wouldn’t know them. But you have a habit of pasting labels rather quickly so if I mention that I listen to so and so, you’ll slap on a label. I’ve heard a great deal of Jordan Peterson (who is wise but not a preacher, although a gifted teacher.) I think you won’t be able to label me by that one.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We can only understand God by what He reveals to us in His written word. It is very dangerous to think one understands completely what the Scriptures teach.

He has opened up the scriptures to me same as Jesus did on the road to Emmaus….when I asked.

I mean unless you are one of those who think God talks to them in a personal way.

Isaiah 55:8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares Yahweh.

Isaiah 55:9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 11:34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?

1Corinthians. 2:11 For who among men knows the depths of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the depths of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

The Spirit of God explained God to me when I asked. Do you want to know anything in particular?

Of course. We love Him because He first loved us. The unregenerate cannot love God. Why wouldn't I love God for what He has done for me through His salvation. He doesn't love me for what I did for Him, but I would suppose there are people who believe that.

“I have heard of you through the hearing of my natural ears but now my eyes see you..” Those who understand God love Him because of who He is. It gives me great joy to know that very deep pleasure awaits so many of His children who haven’t tasted much of it. I’m thrilled for the joy my siblings will know one day.

Why would I feel sorry for those who claim to be Christian and not even want to study both sides of the coin, to see the truth scripture teaches. (Arminian/Calvinism)

Because there is love in my heart for them.

I tell you the truth, those that claim that they had a hand in salvation and coming to God are the most self-righteous prideful, bosting people I have ever met. Some of your responses reflect this.

It’s the easiest answer you can give, call those who reject what you believe nasty names. This puts up a shield around your mind and comforts you as well.

Grace and peace to you

It’s really an amazing blindness you demonstrate. Probably because of that shield you’ve built. You verbally abuse people and then leaving whistling “grace and peace to you” after you’ve verbally stoned them. I mean, your rubber rocks bounce off me as I think, “God forgive him. He doesn’t know what he’s doing” but the hypocrisy is astounding. It’s like the thieves who beat the Samaritan left him saying, “hey, have a nice day!”

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But Spurgeon was over 100 years ago, in England and without TV and the Internet.

So they had nothing better to do with their free time and besides, everyone in town would be there.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Where does this say God loved them? What do you do, search for verses with “creation” in them and paste them without reading them? This essentially says creation loves man, too.

Not changing the meaning. That word is Kosmos. Here it is used 3 more times:

John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written

Where does a single verse say God gave his son for the trees and rocks (who don’t need a saviour?)

Acts 17:24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

God will judge the cosmos….humm trees and rocks?
Whoever gains the cosmos and loses his soul….hummm…trees and rocks?

No I don't. I just oppose your universalist understanding of that verse.

I laughed. I’m not a universalist. No wonder you think we’re more compassionate than God. You don’t even understand me from my writings of my thoughts directly to you and I’m a whole lot easier to understand than God.

1Ti 2:4 who desires (thelo) all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

thelo (G2309), "to will, to wish," implying volition and purpose.
What does God tell us Himself about his will or purpose?

He desires that all people become saved and come to know the truth. Simple enough.

Isa 46:11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.

If God desires something, they He will do it.

Let me ask you so anyone else following can consider this statement. Is God’s will done inthe world at large? And do you do God’s will / desire everyday?

So, how about that word again "all men." I know we have gone over this before and you keep ignoring it. That little word "pas" can mean two things.
1. All men without exception. Your view.
2. All men without distinction. What I believe the passage is saying. Why do I say that? Because of what was said above, God will do all His purpose.

So, if God desires all men to be saved, how come all are not saved?

Easy, they don’t want to give up the pleasures they enjoy that they would have to. Some don’t know yet.

Go ahead and come back with your free will excuse. You say God desires all men to be saved, not desires all men to have a chance to make a choice. There is a big difference.

Ah, I didn’t say that did I?

If God desires all kinds of men without distinction, to be saved, then He does bring it to pass.

Rev. 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Notice no word here says “God brought it to pass that….” What you and others if your thinking have to do is read a description of events and INSERT “God forced this to happen.”

So, who is changing the meaning of 1 Timothy 2:4? The person who says He desires something that never comes to pass, or the person who says that what He desires does come to pass.

I end with this. My thinking honors God by crediting Him with intense desire than all men on earth come to know the truth and be saved. He is described as loving all. In your version, he loved the rocks and trees specifically creation minus man or at best a few of a certain sort.

Which one of us reflects a view of God that is more likely to be true? Which view honors his character?