Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[rogerg]

Right.... But why?

From the text of the Bible please. Answer the simple question.

Solely being God's right and within His sovereign will to choose whomever He may

[Job 23:13 KJV]
13 But he [is] in one [mind], and who can turn him? and [what] his soul desireth, even [that] he doeth.

[Rom 9:15-16, 18-20 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

 

[dwb001]

Solely being God's right and within His sovereign will to choose whomever He may

[Job 23:13 KJV]
13 But he [is] in one [mind], and who can turn him? and [what] his soul desireth, even [that] he doeth.

[Rom 9:15-16, 18-20 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

so you are unable to answer the question.

What about Rom 1:19+20?

 

[rogerg]

so you are unable to answer the question.

What about Rom 1:19+20?

I think it is you who is unable to recognize the answer when given to you

Verses Romans 1:19 - 20, do not say that it was within their power to recognize things spiritual, only that they couldn't, neither do those verses explain why they couldn't. However, that explanation is given in John 6:65 & 66 regarding Christ's disciples who were unable to accept the truth and chose to walk with Him no more.

[Jhn 6:65-66 KJV]
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

 

[dwb001]

I think it is you who is unable to recognize the answer when given to you

Verses Romans 1:19 - 20, do not say that it was within their power to recognize things spiritual, only that they couldn't, neither do those verses explain why they couldn't. However, that explanation is given in John 6:65 & 66 regarding Christ's disciples who were unable to accept the truth and chose to walk with Him no more.

[Jhn 6:65-66 KJV]
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

You have confused How with Why.

Why were Abram, Noah, Job counted as worthy without the Law?
How can people be condemned for not seeking God "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them"? They have seen that God is manifest, but not able to even seek Him? Give a bit of rational though to that position.

Boss says you can see what needs to be done. You can see what needs to be done. But you can't do what needs to be done. You can't even begin the first steps of what needs to be done. You will be held accountable for not doing what needs to be done. Either the boss is unreasonable, or you have the ability to take first steps toward what needs to be done. QED

 

[rogerg]

Why were Abram, Noah, Job counted as worthy without the Law?
How can people be condemned for not seeking God "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them"? They have seen that God is manifest, but not able to even seek Him? Give a bit of rational though to that position.

Christ showed it to His disciples first-hand as observers, and yet, they COULD NOT perceive after observing.
Believe me, I have gone through the logic you're using many times before so my position (actually the Bible's position)
has been reviewed many times. Look at brighfame52 posts and my reply above supporting them above (and make sure you understand them)- they answer your post - when you have, let me know and if you still have questions, we can continue the discussion.

 

[dwb001]

Christ showed it to His disciples first-hand as observers, and yet, they COULD NOT perceive after observing.
Believe me, I have gone through the logic you're using many times before so my position (actually the Bible's position)
has been reviewed many times. Look at brighfame52 posts and my reply above supporting them above (and make sure you understand them)- they answer your post - when you have, let me know and if you still have questions, we can continue the discussion.

So the question is if man has the "ability to seek" not if man can find.
Disciples observed. Mankind has nature to shows Gods existence. But you say that we can't even look for God. Tell that to every spiritual person out there. All are looking, few find.
You can't even answer why God chose three men, and you think your arguments are worth considering. Fascinating.

 

[rogerg]

You have confused How with Why.

Here's further explanation:

[Ecc 9:3 KJV] 3 This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the dead.

 

[dwb001]

Here's further explanation:

[Ecc 9:3 KJV] 3 This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the dead.

You still haven't answered WHY God chose any of the three I mentioned. (Failure #1)
Prov 1:28 says "they shall seek me" so man can seek after God. (Failure #2)
Every response you give is from an indoctrinated mind, asking me to interpret a verse in your favour.( Failure #3)

Please go on... or maybe just answer my question of WHY Abram,Job,Noah?

 

[rogerg]

So the question is if man has the "ability to seek" not if man can find.

If seeking the wrong god are they seeking God? Only those chosen by God seek God by and through God.

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[dwb001]

If seeking the wrong god are they seeking God? Only those chosen by God seek God by and through God.

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So they CAN seek God. Maybe not the right god, but they CAN seek God.

You now reverse your answer when the questions get tough. Indoctrination vs independent thought.

 

[rogerg]

ou still haven't answered WHY God chose any of the three I mentioned. (Failure #1)

Oh my! Okay, once more: God choses whom He chooses. He does not need to get anyone's approval, nor does He need to share in advance His reasons for choosing whom He does: It is His divine prerogative as God and Saviour. This
is what makes God the Saviour and not us.

 

[dwb001]

Oh my! Okay, once more: God choses whom He chooses. He does not need to get anyone's approval, nor does He need to share in advance His reasons for choosing whom He does: It is His divine prerogative as God and Saviour. This
is what makes God the Saviour and not us.

That answers HOW, not WHY.

Try again.

 

[rogerg]

So they CAN seek God. Maybe not the right god, but they CAN seek God.

Ludicrous reply

 

[dwb001]

Ludicrous reply

Nope. You keep switching your position. Keep the target still... Like I'm doing.
Answer the question to defend your position or cede the ground.
WHY did God select Job, Abram, Noah? They were not seeking Him according to your logic, so why them?

 

[rogerg]

That answers HOW, not WHY.

Try again.

You need to read more slowly and think. The "why" is that He chooses to choose.

 

[dwb001]

You need to read more slowly and think. The "why" is that He chooses to choose.

That is how. Divine Sovereignty. I agree, but WHY them?

 

[rogerg]

Nope. You keep switching your position. Keep the target still... Like I'm doing.
Answer the question to defend your position or cede the ground.
WHY did God select Job, Abram, Noah? They were not seeking Him according to your logic, so why them?

Apparently, you are unable to grasp this. Here it is one last time - read the verses slowing and think. No one can do ANYTHING to be chosen - it is all up to God alone - simply His divine prerogative to choose whom He may, and He doesn't share His reasons for those chosen other than to say that it is up to Him. Read verses 15 & 18 again- it is really not complicated.
Do you have it now???

[Rom 9:15-16, 18-21 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

[dwb001]

Apparently, you are unable to grasp this. Here it is one last time - read the verses slowing and think. No one can do ANYTHING to be chosen - it is all up to God alone - simply His divine prerogative to choose whom He may, and He doesn't share His reasons for those chosen other than to say that it is up to Him. Read verses 15 & 18 again- it is really not complicated.
Do you have it now???

[Rom 9:15-16, 18-21 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

I don't disagree with that point, but you haven't answered any of mine. You are answering a question I didn't ask.
Prov 1:28. What about it? And why these three guys?

You are so indoctrinated into this idea that independent thought is anathema to you. Read the story of Job, Abram, and Noah and tell my why they were chosen by God(as per the Bible).

 

[rogerg]

You are so indoctrinated into this idea that independent thought is anathema to you. Read the story of Job, Abram, and Noah and tell my why they were chosen by God(as per the Bible).

Last time I'll try. They were chosen by God, because, and only because, God chose to choose them.
There was nothing inherent on their (or anyone's) part redeeming or special in God's eyes to choose them. What they became was only as a result of, having been chosen by God.

 

[dwb001]

Last time I'll try. They were chosen by God, because, and only because, God chose to choose them.
There was nothing inherent on their (or anyone's) part redeeming or special in God's eyes to choose them. What they became was only as a result of, having been chosen by God.

So not from the Bible. (Failure #4)
No answer to Prov 1:28 (Failure #5)

You are not defending your position very well. Come on man. You can do better.

Just have to answer my questions. I don't even have a preconceived idea of the answer. Just read the stories, give your answer, and give your references. Easy.