Does The Bible Have a Position on Gambling?

[JLB]

Casting lots is a God's method of revealing His will and to me, gambling is a corruption of something that has a holy purpose, therefore, I do not gamble, play the lottery, bet in the office pools, etc. Personal decision, personal choice.

Very well said.


JLB

 

[Mountain Man]

LOL......one man's "gambling" is another man's "investing" and another's "sowing" while "winning" is "reaping" and losing is just plain losing.

 

[John 8:32]

LOL......one man's "gambling" is another man's "investing" and another's "sowing" while "winning" is "reaping" and losing is just plain losing.

And investing is investing...

Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

 

[Mountain Man]

This is a subject I've studied a few times before and never then nor in this thread, have I found any condemnation of gambling in scripture, neither directly nor in principle. All the scripture and arguments I have ever seen used against it always require either the scripture must be taken out of context or there needs to be a judgement made as to other reasons behind the person's decision to gamble that, unless the person themself admits to, we probably are not qualified to make.

Probably the strongest argument against it is the appearance of evil and causing a brother to stumble argument. If I am with a brother or sister Christian that I know believes gambling is sinful, I'm not going to take them to a casino because I know this would be wrong under these scriptures. But that doesn't affect my own decision to gamble or not when I am not with someone who I know feels it's sinful.

Of course, in reality I rarely gamble. But it's only because I don't have the disposable finances anymore to make gambling for fun a wise decision.

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.1 Timothy 5:8

If a man takes his paycheck and gambles it away and can't provide for his household, he is WORSE than an unbeliever.

If a man takes his savings and gambles it away, so that he can not provide for his own, he is WORSE than an unbeliever.


JLB

If a man refuses to earn a paycheck because he is lazy and irresponsible and is an unbeliever he is sometimes supported by those calling themselves believers....usually with other people's money.

 

[Maedchen]

Hi all,

I have been in Las Vegas last summer. In order to get from my room to the restaurant or anywhere else one has to pass by all the casino machines. There is no way not to look at them. As a Jehovah's Witness I never considered gambling, of course, but when I walked through those sheer endless rows of gambling machines I finally understood why God truly despises gambling, as He says in Isaiah 65:11,12 - " But you who forsake The Lord, who set a table for Fortune (!), and who fill cups with mixed wine for Destiny (!), I will destine you for the sword, and all of you will bow down to the slaughter. Because I called, but you did not answer; I spoke, but you did not hear. And you did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight."

So many people actually caressed those machines (!), spoke to them, encouraged those machines to show the lucky numbers and obviously believed that they could influence the 'god of Fortune' by doing so.

This is in heavy contrast to Proverbs 3:5, which says "Trust in The Lord with all your heart"!

Love, Rose

 

[Mountain Man]

LOL......one man's "gambling" is another man's "investing" and another's "sowing" while "winning" is "reaping" and losing is just plain losing.

And investing is investing...

Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

Investing is also gambling,has anyone ever lost money on an investment ? in my state the lottery funds education,according to them it's a sure thing so I suppose when I buy a ticket I have invested in education....many thousands invest in it everyday and we have little to show for it.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Like a few of the posters above have stated, I too feel it's a personal issue between one's conscience and themselves. I can find no scriptural condemnation for it in and of itself, but for whatever reason many in the older religious community have always considered it as such a taboo.

 

[Obadiah]

This is a subject I've studied a few times before and never then nor in this thread, have I found any condemnation of gambling in scripture, neither directly nor in principle. All the scripture and arguments I have ever seen used against it always require either the scripture must be taken out of context or there needs to be a judgement made as to other reasons behind the person's decision to gamble that, unless the person themself admits to, we probably are not qualified to make.

Probably the strongest argument against it is the appearance of evil and causing a brother to stumble argument. If I am with a brother or sister Christian that I know believes gambling is sinful, I'm not going to take them to a casino because I know this would be wrong under these scriptures. But that doesn't affect my own decision to gamble or not when I am not with someone who I know feels it's sinful.

Of course, in reality I rarely gamble. But it's only because I don't have the disposable finances anymore to make gambling for fun a wise decision.

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.1 Timothy 5:8

If a man takes his paycheck and gambles it away and can't provide for his household, he is WORSE than an unbeliever.

If a man takes his savings and gambles it away, so that he can not provide for his own, he is WORSE than an unbeliever.


JLB

If a man refuses to earn a paycheck because he is lazy and irresponsible and is an unbeliever he is sometimes supported by those calling themselves believers....usually with other people's money.

Yes, as I said, "...or there needs to be a judgement made as to other reasons behind the person's decision to gamble..." In the scripture you quote there has to be a judgement made that the person chooses to gamble at the expence of no longer being able to support himself or his family as a result of his gambling, or doing it because he is too lazy to go to work. The vast majority of people who gamble from time to time do not fit into what is described in these scriptures. These are clearly describing a person who has a gambling problem and a responsibility problem. We can't condemn the entire segment of society that occasionally gambles based on the actions of a minority that abuse it.

 

[Maedchen]

Like a few of the posters above have stated, I too feel it's a personal issue between one's conscience and themselves. I can find no scriptural condemnation for it in and of itself, but for whatever reason many in the older religious community have always considered it as such a taboo.

Dear Truth over Tradition,

Could you please explain to me why Isaiah 65:11,12 as cited by me above is not to be seen as a condemnation of gambling?
I really believed that these verses made a clear statement regarding that issue.

Rose

 

[Obadiah]

I have been in Las Vegas last summer. In order to get from my room to the restaurant or anywhere else one has to pass by all the casino machines. There is no way not to look at them. As a Jehovah's Witness I never considered gambling, of course, but when I walked through those sheer endless rows of gambling machines I finally understood why God truly despises gambling

Yes, been to Vegas many times as I have several friends who live there. (Interesting side fact: None of the people I know who live there gamble much and they tell me most people who live there never gamble much because it's just not a novelty for them anymore.) But my point is that they certainly do design the casinos and hotels in a way that encourages people to gamble. That's how they make their money, and that money is the reason you can also buy a dinner that would normally cost $30 to $50 for less than $10 and get a $200 hotel room for only a fraction of the cost. It's also the reason many thousands of people and thousands of non-gambling related businesses in that area exist and provide incomes for many thousands of families. When you think about it, it's really not all that different then when you go looking for a new car and the car dealerships are layed out and designed to make you look at the shiny new cars. If someone goes to Las Vegas for some reason other than gambling, there are numerous alternatives to staying in the strip hotels that you are speaking of. (For those not familiar with Vegas, "strip" refers to the main area where the big gambling hotels are and has nothing to do with exotic dancers! ) Of course, you will get less for your money in those places, but you can't expect the casinos to subsidize your entire stay if you are avoiding their establishments.

I've been in the big casinos and hotels many times (they have great buffets for little money if you know where to go, and I like to eat. ) and have had no problem walking through the casino and making my own choice to not gamble if I don't feel like it at the time. If I do gamble, I can't remember a time I spent more than maybe $50, and that was only when I had a middle class level income and very few living expenses. As with anything, it's a matter of self control.

 

[Maedchen]

I have been in Las Vegas last summer. In order to get from my room to the restaurant or anywhere else one has to pass by all the casino machines. There is no way not to look at them. As a Jehovah's Witness I never considered gambling, of course, but when I walked through those sheer endless rows of gambling machines I finally understood why God truly despises gambling

Yes, been to Vegas many times as I have several friends who live there. (Interesting side fact: None of the people I know who live there gamble much and they tell me most people who live there never gamble much because it's just not a novelty for them anymore.) But my point is that they certainly do design the casinos and hotels in a way that encourages people to gamble. That's how they make their money, and that money is the reason you can also buy a dinner that would normally cost $30 to $50 for less than $10 and get a $200 hotel room for only a fraction of the cost. It's also the reason many thousands of people and thousands of non-gambling related businesses in that area exist and provide incomes for many thousands of families. When you think about it, it's really not all that different then when you go looking for a new car and the car dealerships are layed out and designed to make you look at the shiny new cars. If someone goes to Las Vegas for some reason other than gambling, there are numerous alternatives to staying in the strip hotels that you are speaking of. (For those not familiar with Vegas, "strip" refers to the main area where the big gambling hotels are and has nothing to do with exotic dancers! ) Of course, you will get less for your money in those places, but you can't expect the casinos to subsidize your entire stay if you are avoiding their establishments.

I've been in the big casinos and hotels many times (they have great buffets for little money if you know where to go, and I like to eat. ) and have had no problem walking through the casino and making my own choice to not gamble if I don't feel like it at the time. If I do gamble, I can't remember a time I spent more than maybe $50, and that was only when I had a middle class level income and very few living expenses. As with anything, it's a matter of self control.

Dear Obadiah,

I had been to Vegas with my casting team. We had photo shootings in the mountains behind the city while riding on horses.
That was quite an adventure, especially as I am not very good in horse back riding.

Yes, they have great buffets ( especially Bellagio and Wynn), but after eating there you have to refrain from eating for a whole week to get back into shape.

My thought above was that Jesus told us that as His disciples we "are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." (John17:16) That means to me to stay away from those things that are commonly practiced, but not liked by God. And Isaiah 65:11,12 says that God does not like us to hope for good luck (form of idolatry).
I am no longer in that cult of JWs, but I try to take God's Word seriously. So even if I would just loose 1 Dollar or win it, I would feel like I had participated in a practice that God does not like.

Can you understand my view, dear Obadiah? Do you think that I am too narrow-minded? Even like a Pharisee?

Love, Rose

 

[farouk]

I have been in Las Vegas last summer. In order to get from my room to the restaurant or anywhere else one has to pass by all the casino machines. There is no way not to look at them. As a Jehovah's Witness I never considered gambling, of course, but when I walked through those sheer endless rows of gambling machines I finally understood why God truly despises gambling

Yes, been to Vegas many times as I have several friends who live there. (Interesting side fact: None of the people I know who live there gamble much and they tell me most people who live there never gamble much because it's just not a novelty for them anymore.) But my point is that they certainly do design the casinos and hotels in a way that encourages people to gamble. That's how they make their money, and that money is the reason you can also buy a dinner that would normally cost $30 to $50 for less than $10 and get a $200 hotel room for only a fraction of the cost. It's also the reason many thousands of people and thousands of non-gambling related businesses in that area exist and provide incomes for many thousands of families. When you think about it, it's really not all that different then when you go looking for a new car and the car dealerships are layed out and designed to make you look at the shiny new cars. If someone goes to Las Vegas for some reason other than gambling, there are numerous alternatives to staying in the strip hotels that you are speaking of. (For those not familiar with Vegas, "strip" refers to the main area where the big gambling hotels are and has nothing to do with exotic dancers! ) Of course, you will get less for your money in those places, but you can't expect the casinos to subsidize your entire stay if you are avoiding their establishments.

I've been in the big casinos and hotels many times (they have great buffets for little money if you know where to go, and I like to eat. ) and have had no problem walking through the casino and making my own choice to not gamble if I don't feel like it at the time. If I do gamble, I can't remember a time I spent more than maybe $50, and that was only when I had a middle class level income and very few living expenses. As with anything, it's a matter of self control.

Dear Obadiah,

I had been to Vegas with my casting team. We had photo shootings in the mountains behind the city while riding on horses.
That was quite an adventure, especially as I am not very good in horse back riding.

Yes, they have great buffets ( especially Bellagio and Wynn), but after eating there you have to refrain from eating for a whole week to get back into shape.

My thought above was that Jesus told us that as His disciples we "are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." (John17:16) That means to me to stay away from those things that are commonly practiced, but not liked by God. And Isaiah 65:11,12 says that God does not like us to hope for good luck (form of idolatry).
I am no longer in that cult of JWs, but I try to take God's Word seriously. So even if I would just loose 1 Dollar or win it, I would feel like I had participated in a practice that God does not like.

Can you understand my view, dear Obadiah? Do you think that I am too narrow-minded? Even like a Pharisee?

Love, Rose

Hi [MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION]:

For us in Canada, Vegas is a place that has good flight and hotel deals; and the surrounding mountains, Hoover Dam, etc make good excursions. My wife and I are considering it; the deals are so good, anyway. (The casinos don't interest us.)

You refer to your casting team, [MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION]; you sound like you are a well known actress.

Blessings.

 

[Brother Mike]

For the wealthy, my question would be. Has God told you to gamble? I just made 36.00 in about 10 seconds of trading forex this morning. The EUR/USD took a dive down and I jumped on it. Mind you I have been looking at charts for years and understand Fib, Elliott waves and such. I have moving avg lines, MACD, and my Stochastic also.

What is gambling? Well, despite my knowledge of these money exchange markets, I do loose money at times. There are no Perfect setups in any market, be it Futures, Stocks, or the Foreign exchange market.
I tell any new person coming to the markets to be prepared to completely lose your first or even second investment, and count it as learning. My account is getting bigger and bigger, but for a few years it was not always like that.

Casino:
If you examine Casino gambling there are a set of skills you can learn to better your odds of winning. Some make a living doing it, most professional gamblers though have at one time, even two lost it all. Refinement of skill comes when you learn not to be motivated by money but a plan and set of rules you follow to stay in or out.

It is going after that big money and risking more than you should that breaks both Casino players and those trading markets. Some never learn to stick with the plan, and chase the money.

Lottery:
Playing this is just being dumb. There is not much skill required here. I would have to hear the Holy Spirit very clearly to buy any ticket before I would consider wasting money on this.

Home business, or Brick building business:

Is this any different than gambling? Most new business have a life of about five years before going broke. The Lord tell you to open a business? Do you give up easy?

Job:

Is this gambling? You can be hurt, laid off, and other things can be introduced that destroy your relationship with your spouse and children. It is amazing that people will leave their church God put them at to take that better job. It's chasing after money and not the things of God. Your job is where your suppose to connected to the body the Lord told you, not the other way around. Just taking the good Job because of the money is not being Spirit Led but money led. It's not safe.

So what is Gambling?

It is chasing after things the Lord never planed for you to chase after. It is also being afraid to step out in the water when the Lord puts on your heart to open that business or get into any money venture that you back out because of being unsure. After all, you don't want to loose everything and you think you need to wait for the right time. The right time never comes though and you miss out. We are called to walk by faith.

Anytime your price led, or can't afford it led then money is your leader. That is also gambling. I have learned to never say something is to expensive, and never complain about the price of gas anymore. My God has never gotten sticker shock. He Lives on streets made of gold, so He won't go broke getting you nice things.



Money is not tied to gambling. If you think Money needs to be involved to gamble, then you have to much love for the green stuff.

You gamble and lock your doors at night in case someone might break in?
you gamble and take that umbrella just in case it might rain?
you gamble and eat food which might have some bacteria in it that can harm you?
you gamble and get in your car everyday, even though there are many deaths each day from car crashes?

Not following the Holy Spirit and doing what God says do is gambling. It's not the casino, not lottery, not anything else but doing your own thing. Without God and being on his path. Your life is not sure.

Mike.

 

[Maedchen]

@ farouk: No, dear brother, I am just a fashion model. Nothing spectacular. ;)

 

[farouk]

@ farouk: No, dear brother, I am just a fashion model. Nothing spectacular. ;)

[MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION], oh okay! Anyway, my wife doesn't manage more than a couple of inches now, but you must be well adept and practised at being able to float along in several inches of heels: my wife used to, but can't do the high ones now. In your line of work it must be nice to develop a sense of matching colors and patterns and fabrics, anyhow, lights and shadows, background contrasts: a surrounding artistic sense, I guess.

I'm sure in your line of work it would involve a lot of evenings in hotel rooms, too (of which Vegas has plenty); maybe you've gotten into the habit of reading your Bible instead of watching TV! (I myself have done quite a bit of Bible study in hotel rooms.)

Blessings.

 

[Maedchen]

I agree with your view of gambling, dear brother Mike. It is putting God to the second place.

May God bless you, Rose

 

[farouk]

B. Mike, I can see what you mean; it could also be said that in times of inflation it's actually safer to have money in some stable stock than in the bank, and so less of a risk! So it's a matter of definition, really. I think it's a case of asking what is the primary purpose of the activity.

 

[Maedchen]

@ farouk: No, dear brother, I am just a fashion model. Nothing spectacular. ;)

[MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION], oh okay! Anyway, my wife doesn't manage more than a couple of inches now, but you must be well adept and practised at being able to float along in several inches of heels: my wife used to, but can't do the high ones now. In your line of work it must be nice to develop a sense of matching colors and patterns and fabrics, anyhow, lights and shadows, background contrasts: a surrounding artistic sense, I guess.

I'm sure in your line of work it would involve a lot of evenings in hotel rooms, too (of which Vegas has plenty); maybe you've gotten into the habit of reading your Bible instead of watching TV! (I myself have done quite a bit of Bible study in hotel rooms.)

Blessings.

Well, yes. Usually I don't watch TV. Too much sex, crime and bad things promoted, I think.
As a JW I always had to explain to my colleagues why I did not come with them to parties, or other invitations after the working hours. That was easy then. I just mentioned my religion and everyone understood (even though while shaking their heads). Now, as I am no longer a JW, I just mention that I have so many things yet to read that I need to use my time for that. I read various literature about the bible and following Christ. The bible itself, too, of course.

And I must say that this forum here also helps me to reflect on biblical themes. It is a great place here with great people! Really !!

Love, Rose

 

[farouk]

@ farouk: No, dear brother, I am just a fashion model. Nothing spectacular. ;)

[MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION], oh okay! Anyway, my wife doesn't manage more than a couple of inches now, but you must be well adept and practised at being able to float along in several inches of heels: my wife used to, but can't do the high ones now. In your line of work it must be nice to develop a sense of matching colors and patterns and fabrics, anyhow, lights and shadows, background contrasts: a surrounding artistic sense, I guess.

I'm sure in your line of work it would involve a lot of evenings in hotel rooms, too (of which Vegas has plenty); maybe you've gotten into the habit of reading your Bible instead of watching TV! (I myself have done quite a bit of Bible study in hotel rooms.)

Blessings.

Well, yes. Usually I don't watch TV. Too much sex, crime and bad things promoted, I think.
As a JW I always had to explain to my colleagues why I did not come with them to parties, or other invitations after the working hours. That was easy then. I just mentioned my religion and everyone understood (even though while shaking their heads). Now, as I am no longer a JW, I just mention that I have so many things yet to read that I need to use my time for that. I read various literature about the bible and following Christ. The bible itself, too, of course.

And I must say that this forum here also helps me to reflect on biblical themes. It is a great place here with great people! Really !!

Love, Rose

[MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION]:

My wife and I have read the Bible together and prayed ever since we were married; obviously we have business trips etc as well, when we're occasionally not together but this is something by God's grace we have maintained since we were married. Yes, sometimes coworkers have all sorts of expectations but they learn to respect people's habits and convictions, expecially when they might want to go out drinking, to shows, etc.

Re. your line of work too, as well as the advanced heels skills thing, when I think of my wife feeling she's not dressed when going out unless she puts on her face, I reckon folk that are in your profession must spend even more time than my wife doing it; all necessary, of course, but I guess that men need to figure that for a woman it does sometimes take far more time to put on one's face than to get dressed, especially in your profession, I guess. Blessings.

 

[farouk]

PS: I think the discussion must have taken this turn because we were all talking about Vegas.