Does The Bible Have a Position on Gambling?

[Deborah13]

Still regarding gambling, nobody so far referred to my question about Isaiah 65:11, where mixing drinks for the god of good luck is condemned

Hi Rose, did read my post to you? This is what I said about Isaiah 65.

I think you are right Rose in away. I think this is talking about Israel in rebellion and they were serving idols, false gods, even to giving them drinks. It was about serving pagan gods and all that goes with that.

One thing that might help you is looking at few commentaries from the old Christians Fathers. Here is a link that has at least one commentary on the site right along with the word. In fact, here are two.

First here is what Matthew Henry Commentary says,
What the sins are that number them to the sword. (1.) Idolatry was the ancient sin (Isa. 65:11): “You are those who, instead of seeking me and serving me as my people, forsake the Lord, disown him, and cast him off to embrace other gods, who forget my holy mountain (the privileges it confers and the obligations it lays you under) to burn incense upon the mountains of your idols (Isa. 65:7), and have deserted the one only living and true God.†They prepared a table for that troop of deities which the heathen worship and poured out drink-offerings to that numberless number of them; for those that thought one God too little never thought scores and hundreds sufficient, but were still adding to the number of them, till they had as many gods as cities and their altars were as thick as heaps in the furrows of the field,

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah 65&version=KJV

http://v3.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=65&t=KJV

The words fortune and destiny in the NIV are fine. Destiny in the Greek in Meniy = god of fate who the Jews worshipped in Babylonia
Blessings, Deborah

 

[Brother Mike]

Rose:

For those who don't know what that means: I am officially declared as an apostate, and when a JW sees me coming along the street, he will either hold his hands in front of his eyes and tell his children not to look at me, or he will point with his finger on me and say that I am a follower of Satan. Just because I left.

Wow, don't worry, I love to invite these folks in and see how much word they can't answer. I am sure I made up for some of the discomfort they caused you. I also have been kicked out of one church and ask to leave two. I don't care though.

from what I have read through so far, I think we all be planing a trip to Vegas though. Gambling is not evil, and many things not evil in themselves. Now if I am trying to sell my kids on E-bay to get gambling money, then that might be a different story.

Mike.

 

[farouk]

Deborah13: Yes, I'm familiar with the old commentator Matthew Henry. He has a rather warm way of writing. A bit like C H Spurgeon, really.

Blessings.

 

[Obadiah]

Still regarding gambling, nobody so far referred to my question about Isaiah 65:11, where mixing drinks for the god of good luck is condemned.

[MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION], you have done well to leave the JWs and I knew some of what is involved in that from things I have read about them, but have never seen it firsthand. You are a brave woman and I admire you for what you have done. You do realize, of course, that when you run across someone from that cult that doesn't know you, you are under no obligation to ever tell them of your status with them, right? If they were to flat out ask you about it, I wouldn't recommend lieing. But you have no obligation on earth or under God to voluntarily tell them!

As for your question about Isaiah 65:11, I also thought Deborah13 had answered it. As for my point of view, I see NOTHING in that verse equating "mixing drinks for the god of good luck" with the type of gambling we are talking about in this thread. The Hebrew words "gad" and "meni" which are literally translated as "good luck" or "fortune" and "destiny" in the context of this verse are being used as proper nouns because they are the names of pagan gods that the ancient Hebrews were worshiping at that time, much to God's displeasure. Notice how the verse starts out saying "you who forsake the Lord" is clearly referring to people who have turned against the true God. The type of gambling we are talking about here doesn't involve worshiping a pagan god or forsaking the Lord unless someone chooses to use it that way (which would be pretty rare). I don't think anyone saying it's ok to gamble is trying to say it's ok to use gambling to worship a false god or to make gambling itself some kind of idol. I think we would all agree that those uses of gambling would be sinful. But the sin would be called "idolatry", not "gambling.

However, once again, as long as you believe that gambling is a sin for you, DON'T DO IT! The sin wouldn't actually be the gambling, it would be putting your desire to do something ahead of what you believe in your heart God DOESN'T want you to do!

 

[Obadiah]

Now if I am trying to sell my kids on E-bay to get gambling money, then that might be a different story.

So you're saying I was wrong to do that? (:D Just kidding!)

Yeah, [MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION] mentioned that too. There's a ton of stuff to do around the Vegas area for those of us that get out and do it! My friends there love it, and they almost never gamble or go to the strip at all. (There are hotels/casinos off the jammed up and crowded strip that have great buffets too!)

 

[farouk]

Now if I am trying to sell my kids on E-bay to get gambling money, then that might be a different story.

So you're saying I was wrong to do that? (:D Just kidding!)

Yeah, [MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION] mentioned that too. There's a ton of stuff to do around the Vegas area for those of us that get out and do it! My friends there love it, and they almost never gamble or go to the strip at all. (There are hotels/casinos off the jammed up and crowded strip that have great buffets too!)

Obadiah:

Yes, I reckoned that there would be a great deal to see and do, irrespective of the gambling that doesn't interest us.

 

[farouk]

Rose[/MENTION], You are a brave woman and I admire you for what you have done. ..

Yes, indeed, [MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION] is.

 

[Maedchen]

Hey, please forgive me. I just got kind of emotional (self pity). Not very Christian-like.

I love you all, and I imagine to hug you right now all together.

Let's cling to Jesus!
Love, Rose

 

[providence]

you gamble and eat food which might have some bacteria in it that can harm you?
you gamble and get in your car everyday, even though there are many deaths each day from car crashes?

Proverbs 26:13

 

[Maedchen]

Still regarding gambling, nobody so far referred to my question about Isaiah 65:11, where mixing drinks for the god of good luck is condemned

Hi Rose, did read my post to you? This is what I said about Isaiah 65.

I think you are right Rose in away. I think this is talking about Israel in rebellion and they were serving idols, false gods, even to giving them drinks. It was about serving pagan gods and all that goes with that.

One thing that might help you is looking at few commentaries from the old Christians Fathers. Here is a link that has at least one commentary on the site right along with the word. In fact, here are two.

First here is what Matthew Henry Commentary says,
What the sins are that number them to the sword. (1.) Idolatry was the ancient sin (Isa. 65:11): “You are those who, instead of seeking me and serving me as my people, forsake the Lord, disown him, and cast him off to embrace other gods, who forget my holy mountain (the privileges it confers and the obligations it lays you under) to burn incense upon the mountains of your idols (Isa. 65:7), and have deserted the one only living and true God.” They prepared a table for that troop of deities which the heathen worship and poured out drink-offerings to that numberless number of them; for those that thought one God too little never thought scores and hundreds sufficient, but were still adding to the number of them, till they had as many gods as cities and their altars were as thick as heaps in the furrows of the field,

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah 65&version=KJV

http://v3.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=65&t=KJV

The words fortune and destiny in the NIV are fine. Destiny in the Greek in Meniy = god of fate who the Jews worshipped in Babylonia
Blessings, Deborah

Dear Deborah,

I am sorry for not acknowledging your kind reply yesterday. I guess I read too superficial and did not really understand that you referred to the very verse I meant. ( Yesterday was one of those trouble-days that we all have sometimes.)

Thank you for the relating links. Now I have two more tools for reference.

I tried to analyze once more why I was so convinced that gambling is nothing which Jesus would have done ( I don't mean playing games without money, I mean rather the gambling that takes place e.g. In Las Vegas).
And there are three verses from the time of the New Covenant which are in my view relating:
- 1.John 2:15; 5:19 "Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." - "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."
- Jas. 4:4 "Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God."

Yes, Jesus ate with sinners (as someone mentioned above as hint that Jesus did things we don't know about), but He did so in order to show them their need of repentance and the love of God.
He never became a sinner Himself. Drinking wine or going to a wedding feast is in my eyes not the same as hoping for good luck to provide money. Jesus payed his tax from a coin out of the mouth of a fish (Mat. 17:27). So why shoud He have gambled for money?

Thank you again, dear Deborah. I hope that I did not hurt you with my neglecting your reply.

Love, Rose

 

[Brother Mike]

Rose

He never became a sinner Himself. Drinking wine or going to a wedding feast is in my eyes not the same as hoping for good luck to provide money. Jesus payed his tax from a coin out of the mouth of a fish (Mat. 17:27). So why shoud He have gambled for money?

Php 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

Jesus is not hung up on a whole bunch of things we think he would be hung up on. In Vegas my co-driver had to play black Jack and blew 80.00. He was up 200 some dollars and just kept playing until he lost it all. Nothing wrong with that, the point I had issue with is when He went and emptied 400.00 from his account through a ATM machine and lost that also. He felt he could make the money back since he was doing well at the start.

I keep myself open to the Holy Spirit, I don't throw out list of rules I can't break, but that I don't break that love command by stealing, adultery, and so on. Peter did that as He would not eat any unclean thing, and was missing what the Lord was showing him on that rooftop. Peter was letting religion get in the way of the Holy Spirit.

The Lord bugged me about taking a Job at a country bar. Fighting, heavy drinking and all kinds of things went on in that bar. I hate country music, I don't drink, and the crowd that worked there did drugs at work. It turns out that several people were ready to hear about Jesus after working for awhile. Some had some really hard issues, and though I got fun poked at me for being a Christian, I did get lots of prayer request. It was a crazy place, but I was really comfortable there, more than I thought I would be.

Mike.

 

[farouk]

Still regarding gambling, nobody so far referred to my question about Isaiah 65:11, where mixing drinks for the god of good luck is condemned

Hi Rose, did read my post to you? This is what I said about Isaiah 65.

I think you are right Rose in away. I think this is talking about Israel in rebellion and they were serving idols, false gods, even to giving them drinks. It was about serving pagan gods and all that goes with that.

One thing that might help you is looking at few commentaries from the old Christians Fathers. Here is a link that has at least one commentary on the site right along with the word. In fact, here are two.

First here is what Matthew Henry Commentary says,
What the sins are that number them to the sword. (1.) Idolatry was the ancient sin (Isa. 65:11): “You are those who, instead of seeking me and serving me as my people, forsake the Lord, disown him, and cast him off to embrace other gods, who forget my holy mountain (the privileges it confers and the obligations it lays you under) to burn incense upon the mountains of your idols (Isa. 65:7), and have deserted the one only living and true God.” They prepared a table for that troop of deities which the heathen worship and poured out drink-offerings to that numberless number of them; for those that thought one God too little never thought scores and hundreds sufficient, but were still adding to the number of them, till they had as many gods as cities and their altars were as thick as heaps in the furrows of the field,

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah 65&version=KJV

http://v3.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=65&t=KJV

The words fortune and destiny in the NIV are fine. Destiny in the Greek in Meniy = god of fate who the Jews worshipped in Babylonia
Blessings, Deborah

Dear Deborah,

I am sorry for not acknowledging your kind reply yesterday. I guess I read too superficial and did not really understand that you referred to the very verse I meant. ( Yesterday was one of those trouble-days that we all have sometimes.)

Thank you for the relating links. Now I have two more tools for reference.

I tried to analyze once more why I was so convinced that gambling is nothing which Jesus would have done ( I don't mean playing games without money, I mean rather the gambling that takes place e.g. In Las Vegas).
And there are three verses from the time of the New Covenant which are in my view relating:
- 1.John 2:15; 5:19 "Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." - "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."
- Jas. 4:4 "Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God."

Yes, Jesus ate with sinners (as someone mentioned above as hint that Jesus did things we don't know about), but He did so in order to show them their need of repentance and the love of God.
He never became a sinner Himself. Drinking wine or going to a wedding feast is in my eyes not the same as hoping for good luck to provide money. Jesus payed his tax from a coin out of the mouth of a fish (Mat. 17:27). So why shoud He have gambled for money?

Thank you again, dear Deborah. I hope that I did not hurt you with my neglecting your reply.

Love, Rose

Hi [MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION]:

You mentioned drinking wine as well as gambling.

Last night my wife and I discussed drinking wine: we don't have wine in the house, we prefer not to. But we don't actually say it's wrong, period; merely we feel it's not appropriate for us.

Whether we would put gambling in the same category, I don't know; it's not something that interests us (although we would like to go to Vegas sometime for other reasons, maybe).

Kind of thinking round the subject, really...

Blessings.

 

[andy]

Deborah.Some things prove faith,others don't,others don't matter either way.The important thing is whether you consider it more important than following God's word,and allow it to take up more of your time than you give to God.A secondary point,of course,is to ask: If God walked into a betting shop,race track,or dog track,would He be able to pick you out as different from everybody else there? Secondly,ask:Is this what Jesus would do? Also,pastimes,in themselves are not sins,but can often be used by Satan to lead us away from God.Remember that Jesus,in Gethsemane,told His disciples to WATCH and pray,in that order,therefore we need to be watchful for any inner/outer attacks.

 

[farouk]

andy:

Yes, being watchful is important.

Spiritual discernment is at a premium.

Blessings.

 

[Grappler]

Covetousness is defined as an envious eagerness to possess something that belongs to someone else and Greed is defined as a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed. These two concepts are often spoken against in the Bible and are classified as sinful behaviors in most instances.

The words are often used by some in religious circles to describe what gambling in fact is and this line of thinking has been used to push gambling under the realm of activities that the Bible speaks against. I have heard a preacher describe gambling as "people agreeing to steal from one another". We must ask whether or not the scriptures disapprove of gambling for sure, but in doing so we must be careful to make sure that we don't make a false accusation that binds something not bound by the scriptures as the Pharissees were accused of doing by Jesus.

First of all I am curious as to why you would care as to what scripture says about anything since you are not a Christian? Secondly...I am a Christian and I gamble every now and then for the fun of it. Scripture doesn't say that gambling is a sin. If I choose to take $20 and gamble with it on games then what is the harm? How is that any different than someone spending their $20 on a movie or some other form of entertainment? Gambling in moderation for entertainment purposes is not wrong as far as I am concerned. The problem is when people become addicted to the desire of gaining more and more money that they take stupid risks with money that should be going to pay the bills...now we have a problem. What I find amusing is Christians who condemn gambling like the lottery for instance and they have 401ks or invest in the stock market. Yes investing in the stock market is a gamble also.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

First of all I am curious as to why you would care as to what scripture says about anything since you are not a Christian?

I have this unexplainable affinity for reading and knowing the scriptures. Doing so is sort of in my DNA, it's one of the things I enjoy most.

 

[Maedchen]

Hi to all.
I can't resist to quote what I have found about the gambling-topic from Mr. Billy Graham. Here it is:

Mr. Graham has said: "Gambling is nowhere approved in the Bible. Instead, the Bible stresses that the Christian should earn his living by honest work and effort, and this would exclude relying on chance (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12). The Bible tells us to 'abstain from all appearance of evil' (1 Thessalonians 5:22). Gambling has often done untold evil to people by making them lose money that could be used for good purposes or even the necessities of life. Money is given to us by God to be used for good, not evil. Anyone seeking to do God's will should not be involved in gambling."

He goes on to say, "Gambling is also wrong because of the motives involved. Some people gamble for thrills and excitement. Others gamble because they have a greedy and covetous attitude about money. Some gamble out of a false belief in luck. All of these motives are wrong for the Christian, for they are all self-centered and materialistic." Passages in the Bible which warn against greed and covetousness are Exodus 20:15, 17; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; and Colossians 3:5.


As I myself appreciate Mr. Graham's books very much, and as I know that he is well appreciated from many Christians, I just had to share this with you.

Love, Rose

 

[farouk]

Hi to all.
I can't resist to quote what I have found about the gambling-topic from Mr. Billy Graham. Here it is:

Mr. Graham has said: "Gambling is nowhere approved in the Bible. Instead, the Bible stresses that the Christian should earn his living by honest work and effort, and this would exclude relying on chance (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12). The Bible tells us to 'abstain from all appearance of evil' (1 Thessalonians 5:22). Gambling has often done untold evil to people by making them lose money that could be used for good purposes or even the necessities of life. Money is given to us by God to be used for good, not evil. Anyone seeking to do God's will should not be involved in gambling."

He goes on to say, "Gambling is also wrong because of the motives involved. Some people gamble for thrills and excitement. Others gamble because they have a greedy and covetous attitude about money. Some gamble out of a false belief in luck. All of these motives are wrong for the Christian, for they are all self-centered and materialistic." Passages in the Bible which warn against greed and covetousness are Exodus 20:15, 17; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; and Colossians 3:5.


As I myself appreciate Mr. Graham's books very much, and as I know that he is well appreciated from many Christians, I just had to share this with you.

Love, Rose

[MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION]: Well, it all sounds sensible, anyway.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

PS:
[MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION]: historically, prosperity and a healthy ethic have been built up by thrift and restraint and sensible economies, rather than by excess, waste, bail-outs and - yes- casinos!

(Food for thought....)

 

[Deborah13]

I hope that I did not hurt you with my neglecting your reply.

No, not in the least, I'm sorry that I made it appear that way I just wanted you to know someone did respond directly. But I wasn't clear either.

You know Rose, the scripture you quote is of coarse very important. I guess what everyone is trying to say is that what can be sin in one persons life is not in another's. Jesus looks at our hearts, the intent of our hearts so if something isn't directly addressed it can be variable from person to person.
For things that are very clear in the Bible such as murder, fornication (in all it's many forms), backbiting (gossiping, speaking of others with evil intent) are very clear things that are sinful. And Yes, relying on Luck for your fortune instead of God would be sinful. The love of money over God is sinful. Anything we love more than God.

We would be hard pressed in this world to always agree with someone else. Take for example. There are some denominations who believe it is sinful to use musical instruments in church, including a piano or organ. They don't see them in the NT so they believe it's wrong. Others see that in the OT instruments were used all the time and David clearly speaks of them in the Psalms. So they believe it's fine.

We each have to pray seeking the will of God in our lives and trust that the Holy Spirit will show us in God's Word and in our spirits.