Does The Bible Talk Prosperity

[Lewis]

The widespread corruption and injustice that exist in today's society can certainly make one think that "money is the root of all evil." It wouldn't surprise me if many believe this adage. I, on the other hand, don't. I know that money isn't really everything in a person's life but material wealth isn't so bad. After all, many of the basic necessities in life can only be obtained through money. Besides, God wants man to prosper and be successful and prosperity includes material wealth. How do I know this? The following prosperity scriptures prove my point:
o Genesis 13: 2, 3. In Genesis, God promised to bless man and make a great nation for him. He also vowed to curse those who curse man and to bless all families.
o Deuteronomy 8:18. In this scripture, remembrance of the God who gives man the power to get wealth is emphasized. Wealth here is considered as a means to establish God's covenant.
o 1 Chronicles 4:10. This part of the bible tells us of Jabez's plea for God to bless him with abundance and how God granted his request.
o Matthew 7:7-8. This scripture encourages us to knock on heaven's door and ask for God's blessing because God gives to those who ask.
o 3 John 1:2. In the New Testament, John tells us of how the Father wishes, above all, for man to prosper and to be in health so that his soul may also prosper.
See? The Bible says that God desires for us to prosper materially and that He wants us to succeed. These prosperity scriptures imply that God, because He is our Loving Father, would never want us, His people, to be in peril. Like any father, God only wants the best for His children. But, even if prosperity is indicated in the aforementioned prosperity scriptures, we are still warned that prosperity is not limited to what's financially tangible. Prosperity is encompassed by many things - physical, spiritual, mental, social and of course, financial. To relate prosperity to money alone is very narrow-minded. Moreover, these prosperity scriptures also clarify that though God wants His people to prosper, He only promises its occurrence if we obey His commandments and if we trust Him. He also reminds us that in our search for prosperity, we have to remember to not become greedy and to be contented with what is ours because we are always given what is due us.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Prosperit...es-the-Bible-Say-About-Prosperity?&id=2593470

 

[Tina]

.


1. Job - The Wealthiest man in the East


Job 1:3
"Also, his possessions were seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, five hundred female donkeys, and a very large household, so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the East."

Job presented offerings to God regularly.

Job 1:5
"So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all... "




2. Abraham


Abraham is considered the father of tithing. He tithed to a man called Melchizedek.


Genesis 13:2
Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold.

Genesis 14:18-20
" Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said: “ Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.” And he gave him a tithe of all. "

The New Testament tells us to walk in the steps of the faith of Abraham (Romans 4:12).

Melchizedek is considered by many scholars to be a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Himself. At the very least, Jesus is presented as being of the same order and nature as this great king.

Hebrews 5:6
" As He also says in another place:“ You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek. ”

Hebrews 6:20
" ..where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

Thus it can said that Abraham tithed to Christ.

Hebrews 7:4
" Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils."

This was still at least 400 years before the Old Testament and the law of Moses.

Abraham was also considered to be one of the wealthiest men in his time.




3. Jacob


Genesis 30:43
"Thus the man became exceedingly prosperous, and had large flocks, female and male servants, and camels and donkeys."

Geneisis 28:22
"And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.”




4. Isaac


Genesis 26:13-14
"The man began to prosper, and continued prospering until he became very prosperous; for he had possessions of flocks and possessions of herds and a great number of servants. So the Philistines envied him."




5. Moses


Moses received all the tithes of all the priests, who had received the tithes of all the people.


There were 600,000 men in Israel at that time. If we were to give two thirds of them employment at $250 weekly, the total tithe would have been $25 times 400,000, or $10million. The tithe of this, which Moses received, is $1million (Number 18:26).




6. King David


David was extraordinarily wealthy - so much so that he was able to give $2.8 billion worth of gold for the temple God had called him to build (1 Chronicles 29:4).

Twenty-two times he refers to the offerings he brought into the house of God, his tithing and fulfilling the pledges he had made to God.




7. King Solomon


The Queen of Sheba, herself extremely wealthy, was breathless at the expanse of Solomon's wealth (1 Kings 10).




8. The Prophets


Even the prophets were not considered poor. Isaiah came from a wealthy background. Jonah had enough money to purchase a ticket on a boat to a distant country, and Jeremiah was able to go out and buy acreage for 17 shekels ( about $9000 - one shekel equalled 4 days wages) when the Lord told him to (Jeremiah 32:9).




9. Jesus


Jesus received gold, frankincense and myrrh at his birth. From early antiquity, when kings visited other kings, it was a diplomatic expectation for them to bring extravagant gifts to the king they were visiting, whether a child king or an adult.

Texts from as far as back as 1850 BC relative to the ancient near east from the city of Mari record the vast inventories of gifts that were exchanged between kings of greater or lesser degrees when they met each other. They reveal prodigious quantities of gold, ebony and ivory, lapis lazuli, garments and sweet oil being sent in each direction as part of diplomatic protocol. Even though the value of these gifts adds up to incredible amounts, they pale when compared to first millennium BC practices.

Osorkon (889 BC) gave gifts to Egypt totalling 445 metric tons of gold in the form of vessels, statues, furnishings and the like. Gifts of an extraordinary abundance came with the Queen of Sheba to the court of Solomon. But we are told that her breath was taken away at the grandeur of the king's obvious wealth.

There is an abundance of records detailing what was considered diplomatically acceptable in the amounts of gift giving. In fact, if a king's wealth was not represented in his gift, or the stature of the receiving king was not sufficiently reflected, the receiving king would let the giver understand in no uncertain terms that he had been slighted by the meanness of the gift.

Despite tradition, the number of Magi who visited Jesus was not necessarily three (this idea is based on the fact that there were three gifts mentioned). There were probably many more than three. Nor were the gifts three single items of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Rather, these were the headings of inventories under which many different items would have been included. This was the normal practice for recording indexes of gifts presented to kings.

The wealth and influence of the Magi is clearly considerable because of the impact their coming had upon Herod. The gifts were for Jesus personally, not for His family. Yet it would be resonable to presume that once He understood what His wealth was, He would have shared it with them.

During the three years of Jesus' ministry, wealthy women who followed Him provided for HIm.

Luke 8:3
" ....and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others who provided for Him from their substance."

These people were wealthy and there were many of them. They provided for all the Messiah's needs. The group travelling with Christ received so much they needed a treasurer, Judas. It would seem Jesus carried more than pocket money. All the monies that were coming in needed to be held by someone !




10. Paul


Paul travelled three times around the known world, had enough to pay for a Roman trial, supported all those who travelled with him (Acts 20:34) and was kept in prison for two years by Felix, the Roman procurator of Judea, for the sole reason that Felix hoped to obtain a bribe from the apostle. He would not have waited so long for a trivial amount. He knew Paul was capable of paying him a substantial sum and he was prepared to wait (Acts 24:26).

Paul, a strict Pharisee, would have observed tithing as a regular practice all his life. He encouraged generous giving and taught people to lay aside at the beginning of each week the first fruits of their increase.

1 Corinthians 16:2
"On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come."

 

[Sissy]

The problem is only when one associates being prosperous with being faithful.
In other words, you have some who say that if you are not prosperous, then you don’t have proper faith.

That is directly opposed to the parable of the rich man and the beggar, Lazarus (Luke 16:19-23).
And also opposed to the poor widow (Mark 12:41-44).

 

[Ashua]

Prosperity touches a certain dispensation of God's people, but is not indicative of God's people. Like the spiritual gifts, one may receive prophecy, another healing, yet someone else may receive tongues and the working of miracles. So it is with the rich and the poor. Some may receive prosperity (and are intended to use it for the benefit of his brother) and others are without wealth, but blessed where the rich are not. The "prosperity gospel" is a disgusting heresy.

Material wealth is vanity. I could list a number of verses that say so. In the end, Paul summarized this sentiment when he said circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. So, richness is nothing and poverty is nothing.
You cannot be a son or a daughter without enduring suffering. James says not to esteem the rich in respect of persons indicating that God esteems the rich believer no higher than the poor and vice versa.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: -Revelation 3:17

 

[Ashua]

A message to Osteen and Benny Hinn and all of the prosperity gospel believers:

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.

Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -Mark 10:17-25

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. -Matthew 6:19-20

That is the only Biblical prosperity Gospel I'm aware of.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. -Luke 12:48 (True the greater context of this one is forgiveness and not money, but money plays an element in this and you can fairly safely infer the sentiment extends to it.)

 

[jasoncran]

.


1. Job - The Wealthiest man in the East


Job 1:3
"Also, his possessions were seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, five hundred female donkeys, and a very large household, so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the East."

Job presented offerings to God regularly.

Job 1:5
"So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all... "




2. Abraham


Abraham is considered the father of tithing. He tithed to a man called Melchizedek.


Genesis 13:2
Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold.

Genesis 14:18-20
" Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said: “ Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.” And he gave him a tithe of all. "

The New Testament tells us to walk in the steps of the faith of Abraham (Romans 4:12).

Melchizedek is considered by many scholars to be a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Himself. At the very least, Jesus is presented as being of the same order and nature as this great king.

Hebrews 5:6
" As He also says in another place:“ You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek. ”

Hebrews 6:20
" ..where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

Thus it can said that Abraham tithed to Christ.

Hebrews 7:4
" Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils."

This was still at least 400 years before the Old Testament and the law of Moses.

Abraham was also considered to be one of the wealthiest men in his time.




3. Jacob


Genesis 30:43
"Thus the man became exceedingly prosperous, and had large flocks, female and male servants, and camels and donkeys."

Geneisis 28:22
"And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.”




4. Isaac


Genesis 26:13-14
"The man began to prosper, and continued prospering until he became very prosperous; for he had possessions of flocks and possessions of herds and a great number of servants. So the Philistines envied him."




5. Moses


Moses received all the tithes of all the priests, who had received the tithes of all the people.


There were 600,000 men in Israel at that time. If we were to give two thirds of them employment at $250 weekly, the total tithe would have been $25 times 400,000, or $10million. The tithe of this, which Moses received, is $1million (Number 18:26).




6. King David


David was extraordinarily wealthy - so much so that he was able to give $2.8 billion worth of gold for the temple God had called him to build (1 Chronicles 29:4).

Twenty-two times he refers to the offerings he brought into the house of God, his tithing and fulfilling the pledges he had made to God.




7. King Solomon


The Queen of Sheba, herself extremely wealthy, was breathless at the expanse of Solomon's wealth (1 Kings 10).




8. The Prophets


Even the prophets were not considered poor. Isaiah came from a wealthy background. Jonah had enough money to purchase a ticket on a boat to a distant country, and Jeremiah was able to go out and buy acreage for 17 shekels ( about $9000 - one shekel equalled 4 days wages) when the Lord told him to (Jeremiah 32:9).




9. Jesus


Jesus received gold, frankincense and myrrh at his birth. From early antiquity, when kings visited other kings, it was a diplomatic expectation for them to bring extravagant gifts to the king they were visiting, whether a child king or an adult.

Texts from as far as back as 1850 BC relative to the ancient near east from the city of Mari record the vast inventories of gifts that were exchanged between kings of greater or lesser degrees when they met each other. They reveal prodigious quantities of gold, ebony and ivory, lapis lazuli, garments and sweet oil being sent in each direction as part of diplomatic protocol. Even though the value of these gifts adds up to incredible amounts, they pale when compared to first millennium BC practices.

Osorkon (889 BC) gave gifts to Egypt totalling 445 metric tons of gold in the form of vessels, statues, furnishings and the like. Gifts of an extraordinary abundance came with the Queen of Sheba to the court of Solomon. But we are told that her breath was taken away at the grandeur of the king's obvious wealth.

There is an abundance of records detailing what was considered diplomatically acceptable in the amounts of gift giving. In fact, if a king's wealth was not represented in his gift, or the stature of the receiving king was not sufficiently reflected, the receiving king would let the giver understand in no uncertain terms that he had been slighted by the meanness of the gift.

Despite tradition, the number of Magi who visited Jesus was not necessarily three (this idea is based on the fact that there were three gifts mentioned). There were probably many more than three. Nor were the gifts three single items of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Rather, these were the headings of inventories under which many different items would have been included. This was the normal practice for recording indexes of gifts presented to kings.

The wealth and influence of the Magi is clearly considerable because of the impact their coming had upon Herod. The gifts were for Jesus personally, not for His family. Yet it would be resonable to presume that once He understood what His wealth was, He would have shared it with them.

During the three years of Jesus' ministry, wealthy women who followed Him provided for HIm.

Luke 8:3
" ....and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others who provided for Him from their substance."

These people were wealthy and there were many of them. They provided for all the Messiah's needs. The group travelling with Christ received so much they needed a treasurer, Judas. It would seem Jesus carried more than pocket money. All the monies that were coming in needed to be held by someone !




10. Paul


Paul travelled three times around the known world, had enough to pay for a Roman trial, supported all those who travelled with him (Acts 20:34) and was kept in prison for two years by Felix, the Roman procurator of Judea, for the sole reason that Felix hoped to obtain a bribe from the apostle. He would not have waited so long for a trivial amount. He knew Paul was capable of paying him a substantial sum and he was prepared to wait (Acts 24:26).

Paul, a strict Pharisee, would have observed tithing as a regular practice all his life. He encouraged generous giving and taught people to lay aside at the beginning of each week the first fruits of their increase.

1 Corinthians 16:2
"On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come."

paul died in house arrest, and worked for his ministry, he never asked from the churches he visited.

he didnt work to my knowledge while at house arrest.

 

[Theofilus]

Besides, God wants man to prosper and be successful and prosperity includes material wealth. How do I know this? The following prosperity scriptures prove my point:

Did you actually read those verses? Let's take a closer look at them.

o Genesis 13: 2, 3. In Genesis, God promised to bless man and make a great nation for him. He also vowed to curse those who curse man and to bless all families.

I assume you mean Genesis 12.

The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." (Gen. 12:1-3 NIV)​

The promise was not made to "man" as you say, but to one specific man - Abram (aka Abraham).

o Deuteronomy 8:18. In this scripture, remembrance of the God who gives man the power to get wealth is emphasized. Wealth here is considered as a means to establish God's covenant.

When you have eaten and are satisfied, praise the LORD your God for the good land he has given you. Be careful that you do not forget the LORD your God, failing to observe his commands, his laws and his decrees that I am giving you this day. Otherwise, when you eat and are satisfied, when you build fine houses and settle down, and when your herds and flocks grow large and your silver and gold increase and all you have is multiplied, then your heart will become proud and you will forget the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. He led you through the vast and dreadful desert, that thirsty and waterless land, with its venomous snakes and scorpions. He brought you water out of hard rock. He gave you manna to eat in the desert, something your fathers had never known, to humble and to test you so that in the end it might go well with you. You may say to yourself, "My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me." But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today.

If you ever forget the LORD your God and follow other gods and worship and bow down to them, I testify against you today that you will surely be destroyed. Like the nations the LORD destroyed before you, so you will be destroyed for not obeying the LORD your God. (Deu. 8:10-20 NIV)​

This isn't a promise about wealth, but a warning not to forget God. We should thank Him for everything we have and not boast of what we have done for ourselves.

o 1 Chronicles 4:10. This part of the bible tells us of Jabez's plea for God to bless him with abundance and how God granted his request.

Jabez was more honorable than his brothers. His mother had named him Jabez, [c] saying, "I gave birth to him in pain." Jabez cried out to the God of Israel, "Oh, that you would bless me and enlarge my territory! Let your hand be with me, and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain." And God granted his request. (I Chron. 4:9-10)​

Yes, God did grant Jabez' request, but that is associated with the fact that "Jabez was more honorable than his brothers", not because God is a celestial vending machine as some prosperity preachers make Him out to be. If you want to claim this verse for yourself, then ask yourself: Am I more honorable than my brothers?

o Matthew 7:7-8. This scripture encourages us to knock on heaven's door and ask for God's blessing because God gives to those who ask.

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matt. 7:7-8 NIV)​

I admit that, taken by themselves, these verses do look like a promise that all our prayers will be answered. But this only one place where Jesus talks about prayer. I don't have time to look up the verses right now, but he also mentions having faith and praying according to God's will. There's no promise that we can ask for anything we want - wealth, material possessions, a good job, etc. - and God is required to give it to us.

o 3 John 1:2. In the New Testament, John tells us of how the Father wishes, above all, for man to prosper and to be in health so that his soul may also prosper.

Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. (III John 1:2 NIV)​

First of all, as in the Gen. 12 reference, this isn't addressed to "man", but one specific man - the one to whom John was writing. Second, there's nothing here about what "the "Father wishes". It's a greeting. It's similar to you writing a letter to a friend and starting out "Dear John, I hope you are doing well..." Third, there's nothing here about prospering "so that his soul may also prosper". John knows that his soul is prospering and he hopes that his body is prospering as well.

See? The Bible says that God desires for us to prosper materially and that He wants us to succeed.

Can you support that claim without taking verses completely out of context?

 

[jasoncran]

thanks , theo that is the best counter to that.

 

[Theofilus]

I'm always reminded of this song whenever I hear someone preach a prosperity gospel.

[video=youtube;k1QXVo5_oX0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1QXVo5_oX0[/video]​

 

[Lewis]

I have not heard that song in years, but hey why not if you want one ask God to bless you with one. So what is wrong with that. Now that might have been a poor choice of Scriptures for what I am trying to convey, so I will find something. But one thing I do know, and that is God does not always bless you with money, He blesses you with health, healthy kids, a good job, clothes on your back, a sound mind, and the list goes on. Sometimes you have not because you ask not.

 

[Ashua]

Sometimes you have not because you ask not.

And other times you have not because.....

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume [it] upon your lusts. -James 4:3

Also translated in more common terms as:

When you pray for things, you don't get them because you want them for the wrong reason-for your own pleasure. James 4:3 God's Word Translation

And even when you ask, you don't get it because your motives are all wrong--you want only what will give you pleasure. -James 4:3 New Living Translation

I think it is indignant to ask God for vanities; especially when so many go without the basics. I only pray to God for those things which are necessary -chief among them, forgiveness for my sinning ways-. Just my opinion. Not saying you "can't" ask for more, but it seems to undermine the message of God.

 

[Lewis]

250 Bible Verses about Money

Budgeting Business Contentment Debt Getting-Rich-Quick Giving Investing Lending Love-of-Money Planning Provision Prospering Receiving Saving Stewardship Success Surety Taxes Tithing Waste Work Worry


250 Bible verses about money – What the bible says about money!

 

[jasoncran]

I have not heard that song in years, but hey why not if you want one ask God to bless you with one. So what is wrong with that. Now that might have been a poor choice of Scriptures for what I am trying to convey, so I will find something. But one thing I do know, and that is God does not always bless you with money, He blesses you with health, healthy kids, a good job, clothes on your back, a sound mind, and the list goes on. Sometimes you have not because you ask not.

let me ask you this. why is it only in the west this happens. this includes the more westernised nations of asia?

india dhalits ask and they recieve.

some dhalits get a goat and are blessed to sell it and give those less fortunate then them. is that not enough for you.

to us its nothing

lewis, some simply dont have the abiltiy or talent to make bucks, but they have talents but not the luck or stroke of luck to make it big.

if they have faith and pray and recieve not what then.

and lewis:

i will unfold even more of my testimony as mostly of all that i have god blessed me or blessed to me work for.

when i came to christ i had no talents
i didnt want to turn wrenches
worked mainly minimum wage jobs
had no general common sense
social skills
poor with women
no college

i asked god to fix me. for a wife, to earn enough to be on my own so that mommy and daddy wouldnt be my landlords and or i stay with them.

all of this i have been changed from. i have some other areas to grow, but i am no millionaire. And i was with my parents till 28. nine yrs ago. when i married my wife. i left my parents house.

i was a momma's boy. i have been healed of much all by asking. i asked the lord what shall i do. i felt turn wrenches was the thing for me. so i started in the oil change business. and then unto tires , and where i am at now.

i worked on my vehicles and learning as i did it and going to college for that.

this is what the lord did for me.

i am no millionaire but i have better off.

i couldnt be a million dollar mechanic.

 

[Lewis]

Jason God does not answer every prayer, and sometimes He will make you wait, and sometimes He does not want you to have what ever you are asking for, and you will not get it. And there are those times where God will bless some people abundance.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason God does not answer every prayer, and sometimes He will make you wait, and sometimes He does not want you to have what ever you are asking for, and you will not get it. And there are those times where God will bless some people abundance.

ok, i dont have problems with that but the prosperity gospel isnt that. its you can all be rich if you do the work of god.

really, wheres that suffering part in the bible

all they that will serve the lord shall suffer.

sounds like a promise to suffer.

is that a good reason to do the will of god? how about you do it cause you love him and want to make him happy.

if you do the work for the blessings here dont bother. you got your reward.

 

[Lewis]

Jason serving the Lord does cause suffering.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason serving the Lord does cause suffering.

tell that to osteen, and also duplantis, and even meyer. copeland as well.

some can handle money. other cant. glad that you arent out there.

man have i had these discussion with jenn. a hundred times. and she is a little less on that stuff.

of course she has this wierd one. Do Gods will and the lord will bless you with wealth so that you can help others.

with some i can see that, others no. i say (and pray that it changes) do what you are enabled to and let the lord bless it.

seek the lord first, and he will add unto you all these things.

 

[Mike]

I thought this was a thread on "prosperity preachers", as in "name it - claim it", and I really didn't want to go through this again. I've used these verses a few times recently, because to me, they really hit home. Having faith, honest deep faith, would naturally bring inner-peace. If you can fully grasp the Truth that you are Loved and Cared for, buy the Lord, then life's circumstances can be handled and not become a burden.

Phil 4
"for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29439">12</sup>I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29440">13</sup>I can do everything through him who gives me strength."

These verses speak two Truths to me:
1. Wealth and material possessions are not contingent on faith.
2. A Christian can be blessed with or without material possessions.

"Name it - Claim it" theology is more than wrong theology, it's dangerous. Actually any theology that takes away from the Truth is dangerous. I'm sad for people who buy into this theology, because they're taking their focus off eternal blessings and putting it on temporal ones. Further, these ministries can leave believers despondent. When they buy into this false theology, and they do not receive what they are praying for, they can be led to believe their faith isn't strong enough, and worse, question their salvation. 2

John 16:33
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Not "could", but "will" have trouble, and again, He will give you His Peace. Prosperity preachers tend to be the ones who preach that you will not even incur illness if your faith is strong enough. Again, a set up for self-doubt.

I don't get into class envy or point my finger at people who have wealth, because we can always see excess in virtually everyone's life. If you are critical of people who have what you view as extreme wealth, there are always people who can point their finger at you. Wealth is relative, and there are always ways to scale back. Where is the line drawn in designating someone as having an acceptable level of net worth? I believe it all comes down to the heart and how tightly you are clutching what you have.

 

[Lewis]

Jason, Jessie & Joyce know what it is to suffer, Joyce went through getting raped by her dad until she was 18, she went through smoking cigs, and drinking. Jessie was a dope addict, they know what it is to suffer. Joel on the other hand did not go through all of that, but Joel does a great job, he is called to do the type of preaching that he does, he reaches millions of people.

 

[Mike]

but Joel does a great job, he is called to do the type of preaching that he does, he reaches millions of people.

What value is there in reaching millions with false doctrine? I can't listen to 2 minutes of Osteen before... :verysick

He waters down the Gospel to the point that it's almost indistinguishable from new-ageism. He rarely talks about the consequences of sin, but simply says that God can clear up all your mistakes. <---- As a rule, he doesn't use the word "sin". He replaces it with a cozier "mistake". (much less offensive or convicting) He rarely uses the name Jesus, but uses "God". I believe he thinks using the name "Jesus" will be too divisive for his countless followers. And of course the whole Name it - Claim it thing.

People say he's changing lives every day. But what are these people changing to? I don't believe we should allow preachers such as Osteen to change the message. The message never changes. Preachers just move away from it, and then claim they're "coming at it from another direction."