Domestication of pigs

[Gabbylittleangel]

Peter's vision?
Act 10:9 ¶ On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Act 10:17 ¶ Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
Act 10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

I have a totally different understanding of it than those who teach that God either changed His mind about pigs, or changed pigs. I see it as God dealing with Peter about Peter's prejudice.

Act 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

Notice that the Spirit did not say "get up and fix yourself a BLT."

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

I see the entire vision as being about Peter and his prejudice. Otherwise, as I stated above, all of the 'unclean' animals were in that sheet. If the vision was saying pigs are okay, then so is everything else that is on the same list as pigs.

As far as being 'bound' by God's law..I am free to obey His law. The closer I draw to Him, the more I realize that He had a reason for giving us His law. The more I learn His ways, the more of the ways of the world and the flesh I tend to leave behind, the better off I am.

Bound? I suppose if you consider that I am now yoked together with Christ. I appreciate His grace, I struggle with some things, other things come easy.
Not eating the things on the "do not eat" list is one of the things that where the Lord has dealt with me.

And you are right, we are not to judge others according to what they eat or do not eat. I tend to get a lot more judgement in that area than I dish out. (Pardon the pun) I can not force my diet habits on someone else anymore than I can force any belief on anyone else. I love God's grace, but I also love His righteousness. Seeking it, and walking in obedience has always worked out best for me.

 

[mutzrein]

My apologies all for the frivolous nature of my posts.

I guess it has to do with the nature of the flesh! :-?

. . . anyway I will leave this thread with a scripture.

But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

And ya can all pick the bones outa that one :-D

 

[Imagican]

gabby,

I agree that this story of Peter coming to understanding STARTED over his continuance in teaching circumcision along with OTHER Jewish tradition concerning LAW. But if one reads this along with the teachings of Paul, (who, by the way, ALREADY understood what Peter needed a PERSONAL 'vision' to understand), it is plain that the LAW was fulfilled IN Jesus Christ. The story has the voice of Christ Himself stating that 'what God HATH CLEANSED, let NO MAN call common'. And what was the vision? A vision containing ALL sorts of beast PREVIOUSLY considered UNCLEAN. Add this to Paul's teachings concerning what we can and can't eat and it becomes apparent that we ARE FREE, not ONLY from the 'other laws', but from those pertaining to FOOD as well.

Now, concerning obedience. We are NOT bound to ANY food law. We are bound to love one another and therefore it is NOT up to us to judge that eaten or NOT eaten by another. So long as ALL things we eat are eaten with thanksgiving. For God created ALL that is at our disposal and it IS to Him that we are to offer thanks.

We are even told that to eat things offered by 'others' to IDOLS is NOT forbidden us. We are warned that it's BEST not to even dwell into the matter of sacrifice, but it is NOT forbidden us to dine with 'others' that serve meals that have been offered in sacrifice to 'other gods'.

See, SO LONG as we LOVE God with all our heart, and love our neighbors AS OURSELVES, there is little that we can do that IS WRONG. NOTHING in fact. For to do ANYTHING that IS SIN is to ignore what we have been commanded so far as LOVE is concerned. And SO LONG as we remain faithful IN LOVE, then NOTHING is forbidden us.

Please don't even THINK that I am saying that we can commit adultery, (physical OR Spiritual), and it's NOT a sin. What I am saying is that once one abides in love and continues IN IT, then they WILL NOT COMMIT either type of adultery. Not because it IS LAW, but because their love will NOT ALLOW IT.

MEC

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Lets not turn this into another law /grace thread.

 

[Guest]

alone,

don't 'do that' to people. This was what God spoke to man 'in the beginning'. But we also KNOW that animals WERE allowed, BY GOD, PREVIOUS to the time of Moses, For animals WERE offered for sacrifice by Abraham and Abraham ATE MEAT.

I am not sure what you mean by 'do that' to people. Nowhere in my post did I say that we HAVE to adapt a plant based diet - though there are many reasons why we should - and perhaps I will start a thread on it in the general talk area.

However, animals we NOT allowed to be used as food prior to the flood. It is only AFTER the flood that God permits Noah to EAT animals as they once ATE the plants.

Genesis 9:1-3 "And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. (2) The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. (3) Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant."

There are a couple of keys points here:

1) Now, after the flood, the relationship between animal and man is cursed: "The fear of you and the terror of you will be given..."

2) Now, after the flood, anything that is alive shall be for food in the same manner that only the plants were before.

And worshiping a 'diet' is NO different than 'worshiping ANY other 'false god'. Go out and 'work your but off' and you can eat pretty much anything you choose and AS MUCH AS YOU CHOOSE. That along with periodic fasting and there would be NO NEED for a 'specific diet'.

I am not suggesting to worship any diet. Being a vegetarian is not about being a fad, or a weight loss diet. Just as eating meat is your lifestyle, eating a plant based diet is my lifestyle.

So, we were NOT given the 'teeth' of an OMNIVORE to eat ONLY vegetables. We were NOT given the digestive system of an OMNIVORE to ONLY eat vegetables. We are FREE to eat what we will so long as we eat it in 'thanksgiving'. And according to some Pentecostals, they believe that they can even eat that which is poisonous without detriment to the body, (me personally, I'll 'pass' on the poison).

Actually we do have the teeth of an omnivore and the digestive system of an omnivore - just as a knife CAN be used as a screwdriver, the intent/purpose of a knife is to cut. I would suggest the same is true of our teeth and digestive tract.

And I agree with the whole poison thing :

However, please understand that I am saying that this has been a personal choice - not that it is commanded to be (rather, Scripture is clear this is how we were created) or that it is a 'sin' to eat meat.

And the heading states 'domesticated swine'. The method of 'raising pigs' in todays world is MUCH more sanitary than ANYTHING that those of the past were capable. Sterilization, refrigeration, cooking methods, etc....These were things IMPOSSIBLE to produce at the time that the food laws were given to the Hebrews/Jews.

Absolutely correct - the purpose of the food laws were for protection and obedience. However, have you ever been in a pig farm? It is not sanitary for the pig or the people. Not to mention the cruetly most pigs face.

We are commanded to be stewards of creation - which gives us a responsiblity to be caretakers not abusers of God's creation.

There ARE NO LONGER FOOD LAWS. So long as everything is eaten in thanks to God. BUT, beware, if you CHOOSE to 'believe' that it is WRONG to 'eat pork', then you BETTER NOT. For what you believe in your 'heart' IS what you will be judged by. If you believe that you MUST eat ONLY vegetables, be 'true to yourself'.

I never said that one must "only" eat vegetables or that it is 'wrong' to eat meat. Rather, I said that it would be better to eat a plant based diet - not only for one's health (vegetarians live longer), but for creation as well.

But, for the REST of us, bodily health means LITTLE to those that are secure in the FACT that this life is a 'temporary PLACE'. The amount of 'time' that we spend here is IRRELEVANT so long as we accomplish that which we were placed here to accomplish. Cling NOT to this life but cherish the one to come. Rest 'ASSURED' in the faith that this body is NOTHING other than a 'shell' and it WILL die when IT IS TIME.

While I agree - we also have a responsiblity here on earth. I am a vegetarian for many reasons - one being health - one of the other reasons is that eating a plant based diet creates a smaller foot print on creation. A plant based diet consumes less than a meat based diet which provides for more for others.

Converting grains to meat wastes 67-90 percent of grains proteins, up to 96 percent of calories, and all their fiber. Since it generally takes far more grains to feed meat eaters, worldwide meat consumption greatly increases demand for grain - which consumes more land, water, and other reasources. A growing demand for meat increases the cost of all food - which impacts the world's poor.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Have you noticed that the world and the devil have gotten us so turned around that many consider the Easter traditional dinner to be 'ham' now, rather than the Biblical lamb? I can't help but think that is a slap in the face of the Lamb of God, the original Easter sacrifice.

 

[Imagican]

Gabby - I will agree wtih you that a Kosher diet is in fact healthier.

I will also take it one step further, and suggest that God's ideal diet, and the healhiest diet, is a vegetarian/vegan diet.

Gen 1:29-31 "Then God said 'Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast if the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every geen plant for food" ; at it was so. God saw all that He had made and behold, it was very good."

Notice that God says only the plants are given for food.

This is what I mean by 'don't do that to people'. You state that 'Notice that God says only the plants are given for food'. This 'could' suggest to those that don't 'know any better' that we are ONLY supposed to eat 'plants'. This is simply NO TRUE.

And gabby, in order to discuss the 'truth' as far as our diet is concerned, we must find that which offers 'explanation'. The ONLY reason that were are discussing this issue goes BACK to 'food laws' given to the Hebrews/Jews. Now, are we STILL held to those laws? Of course not. Therefore we can safely acknowledge that we are NOT bound by the ONLY law that forbid the 'eating of pork'.

I didn't know we were here to discuss the 'perfect diet', (vegitarian or omnivorous), but the 'truth' behind the ancient law that forbid the eating of swine.

I believe that I have offered what the Bible states concerning the 'eating of UNCLEAN animals'. There WAS a 'time' and that 'time' is PAST. Now, if one CHOOSES to 'believe' that eating pork or CORN for that matter IS WRONG, then they are held accountable to that which they contain within their hearts.

And ours is NOT to judge another by WHAT HE OR SHE CHOOSES TO EAT, but that certainly doesn't mean that we can't offer the 'truth' concerning the FREEDOM that we have been granted to EAT WHAT WE CHOOSE so long as it is DONE WITH THANKSGIVING TO GOD.

So, I hope that we have been able to offer an 'answer' to the posters original question.

Let me add this: there is NO DOUBT that there are certainly things that we NOW consider 'unhealthy'. Won't argue that one bit. Some things are CERTAINLY not 'wise' to eat. But that we are no longer held BOUND to 'food laws' is apparent to those that are willing to read and accept The Word.

MEC

 

[Solo]

Have you noticed that the world and the devil have gotten us so turned around that many consider the Easter traditional dinner to be 'ham' now, rather than the Biblical lamb? I can't help but think that is a slap in the face of the Lamb of God, the original Easter sacrifice.

If you are an Israelite under the Law of Moses then you better not eat any unclean thing, but if you are a Jewish or non-Jewish believer then you are not restricted by the Law of Moses. You can even eat a cooked rat if you would like, and you are not sinning against God. Prior to the flood, Noah was given the decree to gather clean and unclean animals aboard the Ark. The unclean animals were not to be offered to God as a Sacrifice, but the clean animals were. After Noah departed the Ark, God told Noah that ALL creatures were food for him.

1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. Genesis 9:1-3

Today every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-4

 

[Guest]

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-4

What a wonderful reminder we have from Timothy of the goodness of God and His provision for us. Every meal is an opporunity to not only give thanks for what God provides but also a prayerful reminder of God's grace and goodness.

It reminds me of the prophecy in Isaiah 11:6-9:

And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the young linon and the fatling togetherm and a little boy will lead them. Also the cow and the bear will graze, Their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."

As stewards of God's creation, we have a responsibility to take care of God's creation to prevent abuse, inhumane slaughter or cruelty (Exod. 23:5; Deut. 22:6–7, 25:4)

 

[Relic]

Have you noticed that the world and the devil have gotten us so turned around that many consider the Easter traditional dinner to be 'ham' now, rather than the Biblical lamb? I can't help but think that is a slap in the face of the Lamb of God, the original Easter sacrifice.

mmmm. chocolate easter bunny ears! and jelly bean poopies :P

.

sorry couldn't resist. :-D

.

 

[starbyfar]

Have you noticed that the world and the devil have gotten us so turned around that many consider the Easter traditional dinner to be 'ham' now, rather than the Biblical lamb? I can't help but think that is a slap in the face of the Lamb of God, the original Easter sacrifice.

hi gabbylittleangel,

from the studying i have done, easter is not a biblical holiday and i dont believe i remember reading anywhere in the bible where this is mentioned as being such nor any stories of special sacrifices/feasts to commemorate christ's ressurection? would you mind shedding some light on that area? i personally choose not to celebrate easter because ive read that it is yet another pagan holiday about celebrating the "god" Aestoreth.. i know i spelled her name completely wrong, but i believe she was suppose to be the wive of Baal, and the goddess of fertility.. im assuming thats where the fertile easter bunnies come into play? i will dig up some references and post them, but id really like to hear you out about the original easter sacrifice from a biblical standpoint.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

hi gabbylittleangel,

from the studying i have done, easter is not a biblical holiday and i dont believe i remember reading anywhere in the bible where this is mentioned as being such nor any stories of special sacrifices/feasts to commemorate christ's ressurection? would you mind shedding some light on that area? i personally choose not to celebrate easter because ive read that it is yet another pagan holiday about celebrating the "god" Aestoreth.. i know i spelled her name completely wrong, but i believe she was suppose to be the wive of Baal, and the goddess of fertility.. im assuming thats where the fertile easter bunnies come into play? i will dig up some references and post them, but id really like to hear you out about the original easter sacrifice from a biblical standpoint.

Oh, it would all have to do with Passover, and how it is a Old Testament type of a New Testament truth.
Easter, from a Christian view point is sometimes referred to as Resurrection Sunday. Commemorating the day that Jesus rose from the dead. Simply because of the relationship between Passover and Easter, traditionally speaking, the same meal served during passover (Lamb) was once a Christian tradition.

Volumes have been written on Abraham's statement "God will provide himself a lamb" and John the Baptist statement "Behold the lamb of God", as well as all of the other references to Jesus being a sacrificial lamb.

I have a story about how Easter bunnies and eggs came into the Easter tradition. I believe I posted it before in the forums, and the Chapter and Verse folks don't like their time wasted with stories unless you have eighteen different types of documentation to back up your story. I have grown weary of 'sharing'. So, I will pm you with my cute little story, and spare the rest of the scholars.

Blessings.

 

[Imagican]

Actually Easter IS a pagan holiday. Easter 'bunnies' and easter 'eggs' ARE symbols of fertility and have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Christ. And we are ALSO TOLD not to judge another in their celibration of 'days'. So, if one chooses to eat 'pork' on ANY day of the year, it is NOT up to 'us' to determine it's righteousness.

However, it's NOT the 'day' that is worshiped or esteemed that can be 'right or wrong', it's the PURPOSE of our offering celibration that DOES matter. For if we choose to honor days put aside for 'other gods', I am quite POSITIVE that God would NOT see this as just 'another' day. He IS able to judge the hearts of those that choose to worship PAGAN holidays.

MEC