Earthly things and Heavenly things... the Israel of God and the church of God...

[Tri Unity]

"Let the dead bury the dead". Your confusion comes from keeping a foot in both camps. You cannot serve two masters.

 

[Hitch]

"Let the dead bury the dead". Your confusion comes from keeping a foot in both camps. You cannot serve two masters.

LMAO

 

[jasoncran]

"Let the dead bury the dead". Your confusion comes from keeping a foot in both camps. You cannot serve two masters.

sorry. im not into your ideas that nearly and appear to stem from anti-semetic sources. that is why i asked for a source.

that denied that but you lost that when you cant annie up and walk me through a direct biblical reference. i merely added that about cis as possiblity. do we slander men without evidence? recently and today even i said something about a local sheriff that well i thought was true. i have to recant he isnt guilty until stated by the state. thus innonent.
so i shouldnt have recanted?

sir, i wonder if you do hate jews now. it should be plan then if its in the bible. all my conclusion came from my own study and simple reading of the words plainly. i admit that i dont know it all. hitch, know that i was a pre-trib/pre-mil and i debated from that side. it was by defending that i realised that its off.

i dont see god double judging a nation to show the world that the jews were wrong. hmm you dont like hell but claim this loving god will kill jews by a mocker of them for something they didnt do in ad 70! really?!

hate, man hate. no more will i even bother linking cis to rothchild openly. if god wants to he will show me from a non anti-semetic source.

 

[Tri Unity]

The founder of my faith is a Jew; you don't know what your talking about.

It's amazing how people play the anti-semetic card when ever they have no answers. Was Jesus anti-semetic too. Because He told us to be aware of false Jews who are actually satan's pawns. Maybe you're one of them. I don't know, I was told by Jesus to be careful of those who say they are Jews but are not... They have a foot in both camps. They try to serve two masters.

"Beware of those who say they are Jews, but are not, they are the synagogue of satan." (Rev 2:9; 3:9)

 

[jasoncran]

The founder of my faith is a Jew; you don't know what your talking about.

It's amazing how people play the anti-semetic card when ever they have no answers. Was Jesus anti-semetic too. Because He told us to be aware of false Jews who are actually satan's pawns. Maybe you're one of them. I don't know, I was told by Jesus to be careful of those who say they are Jews but are not... They have a foot in both camps. They try to serve two masters.

"Beware of those who say they are Jews, but are not, they are the synagogue of satan." (Rev 2:9; 3:9)

ah yes, right sure, like i havent heard that before. that is classic since no one knows of that synagouge outside those there.

fine name me the jews in power that control the church and pay the goverments to manipulate power. name then all. proof and evidence and no gossip. if its true then take them to court and seem the die for the murdering they cause.

i know of bad jews. karl marx being one of them. name the living rothchild since well the rothchild thing is well 100 years old. or more.i can ask those that know more about isreal then you or as they live there or go there and this is their fight.rhetoric that is all you got. show me the verses that show god will judge isreal for what sins? fooling the church. i dont even recall the church in prophecy directly in revalation save a warning to the local ones in asia minor. so nice try there.

old as old as can be. so they decieve the church by getting land back? really so this church that preaches the gospel to them and warns them repent is a deception?and a futurist by the name of john agee with christians united for isreal does just that. wow, just wow. you are a work.shoot hitch and reba wont go there they dont believ that isreal is to come back to the land in prophecy nor did a former admin. yet they all said isreal has right to exist and never said any jew would be double damned for something they didnt do.a jew if he doesnt repent is already damned , so why would god do that? if he so loving that make no sense.

right. i know where you are.

 

[Tri Unity]

if he so loving that make no sense.

You don't make any sense. It's not worth discussing these things with you when you are throwing things around like shrapnel from a grenade.

 

[reba]

Personal attacks will get your posts deleted...

 

[Tri Unity]

Personal attacks will get your posts deleted...

Ok reba. My bad.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Firstly, I believe the Jews have been returned only in order for God to punish them as a nation for their unbelief. God will do this in front of the entire world, so the world knows that God has judged them.

Secondly, there are a lot of scriptures to this effect. It was also the teaching of the ante-Nicene fathers. Israel (via the Rothschilds) are being used to deceive the church also. I will elaborate another time if you are still interested. This is something for a different topic.

Just the Jews? What about the Israelites?

 

[Tri Unity]

Just the Jews? What about the Israelites?

I mean Jews in the colloquial sense. I mean Israel.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I mean Jews in the colloquial sense. I mean Israel.

well, what I had in mind are all unbelieving Israelites from all 12 tribes. Not just part of Israel, i.e. the Jews only which are not all 12 tribes.

 

[Tri Unity]

well, what I had in mind are all unbelieving Israelites from all 12 tribes. Not just part of Israel, i.e. the Jews only which are not all 12 tribes.

I will answer in brief to the extent I understood the question...

I believe that the Nation of Israel has been re-formed so as to bring about a national punishment for Israel; but also other nations are gathered to receive their punishments. As the end-time approaches, God is gathering all of the nations to the battlefield of Armageddonon. A little like maneuvering chess pieces to execute the final checkmate. Israel is part of that final punishment. The church also will go through a punishment; for "judgement starts with the household of God." All of the nations are being prepared to receive God's wrath, and "they will know that the LORD has done this."

"​​​​​​​I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will get drunk on their own blood, as if it were wine. Then all humankind will recognize that I am the LORD, your deliverer, your protector, the powerful ruler of Jacob.†(Isaiah 49:26)

Jacob is a reference to the elect who will be saved through the tribulation.

“So I will now let this wicked people know – I will let them know my mighty power in judgment. Then they will know that my name is the LORD.†(Jer 16:21)

"Then my anger will be fully vented; I will exhaust my rage on them, and I will be appeased. Then they will know that I, the LORD, have spoken in my jealousy when I have fully vented my rage against them." (Ezekiel 5:13)

"The slain will fall among you and then you will know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 6:7, 10, 13, 14)

"I will execute judgments against Moab. Then they will know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 25:7)


“‘Look, I am against you, Sidon, and I will magnify myself in your midst. Then they will know that I am the LORD when I execute judgments on her and reveal my sovereign power in her." (Ezekiel 28:22)

"The land of Egypt will become a desolate ruin. Then they will know that I am the LORD. Because he said, “The Nile is mine and I made it,†(Ezekiel 29:9)

"I will send fire on Magog and those who live securely in the coastlands; then they will know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 39:6)

The Synagogue of Satan are also being gathered for their judgment. This is a deep subject, and I can only breeze over it momentarily. I hope I covered at least part of your question.

 

[tim-from-pa]

The time of Jacob's trouble is for all Israel. But that little nation of Israel is not all of Israel.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Or, what he was saying is not all the people called the Jews are all of Israel--- the Jews did not have the birthright of the OT, but rather the house of Joseph.

Much of the northern tribes dispersed and became "lost" (but not to God) and never, ever yet returned to the land of Israel. They don't know who they are, and indeed believe they are Gentiles. They already fulfilled their destiny to become many nations as it is written:

And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. 11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;


And again referring to the genealogical branches that would become these nations....


And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine......
And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him......
And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.


And what of these exiles and new nations? It brings to mind Hosea:


Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.


So, in the place of their exile, we see that they are not recognized as God's people, yet they would be known as the sons of the living God. There's only one place in the NT that reminds me of that:



But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


So these are the spiritual seed of Abraham embracing what we would call Christianity, but unbeknownst to themselves are actually the physical seed of Abraham as well as there would be many who believed in Christ and bring the gospel to the world (aka "Christian nations") as a glorious forerunner of the Kingdom age when the Lord would (yet to be) make a new covenant with them saying:


Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah....


One group are the Israelites, and the others Judah (the Jews). These Ezekiel calls the "two sticks" to be rejoined in the end times, which historically has not occurred yet:


Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.


I could say more, but I'll stop here. But one can see that little nation of Israel is just the starting point, there's a mass return yet to occur as Jeremiah 30 attests to:



Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.


That is to say, this verse follows after Israel "found grace in the wilderness (i.e. their exile)"

 

[reba]

My thoughts.... the punishment you speak of Tri Was fortold in Matt 24 and happened 70 AD.

 

[Tri Unity]

My thoughts.... the punishment you speak of Tri Was fortold in Matt 24 and happened 70 AD.

The punishment that occurred in 70 AD was not the final punishment; it was merely a forerunner to act as a compass for future reference. This process has occurred many times in the scriptures; Noah's time; the Exodus; Babylonian Captivity; etc. 70 AD was particularly in reference to Daniel 9:24 -

"Seventy weeks are determined on your people and on your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

This was not the final punishment anymore than Egypt, Assyria, Babylon or Persia were final punishments, yet they were all foretold, as was 70 AD. The final punishment for all nations has "a day and hour that no one knows but the father". (Matthew 24:36) This is when all nations, including Israel, will experience "the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat." (2 Peter 3:12)

So Matthew 24-25 predicted when the Temple would be destroyed, as did Daniel 9, but it also foretold the "end of the age", when "all the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." (Matthew 25:32) This did not occur in 70 AD. The Jews (Israel) are part of "all nations", and they are being gathered and seperated like any other nation. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." (Matthew 24:21)

Tri

 

[reba]

ok for you :boxing

Some points we just will not agree on... God knows 70 comes after 69 that was done a long time ago...

He plainly says that generation and that generation got it just like He said...

 

[Tri Unity]

ok for you :boxing

Some points we just will not agree on... God knows 70 comes after 69 that was done a long time ago... He plainly says that generation and that generation got it just like He said...

"Generation" has several different meanings in scripture. You are restricting the usage of this generation to the first century. It is good to agree to disagree :yes