easy believism

[Rajesh Sahu]

Rajesh, That is a really beautiful post, straight from the heart.
Jesus told us himself to obey Him and keep His commandments. The whole of the NT shows us the way we should follow Christ. I find it hard to understand how any cannot see it.
We have to carry that cross daily as you say. But the Holy Spirit helps us along with it. I choose to follow Jesus, I stumble many times, but am helped up again. We have a wonderful Lord in Jesus.

Thank you for your kind words. I agree it's very clear in all NT, especially the words of Jesus who exhorted us to obey His commands and follow Him. There is no other way. I believe more and more believers are coming to that realization. The greatest benefit from that realization ( that obedience is as important as Believing) is that it will galvanize many brothers and sisters into action . The gospel will be shared and obeyed with greater zeal and we will truly understand the deathly impact of non obedience which leads to sin, which in turn leads to death ( Romans 6:23). Even Spiritual death

 

[JLB]

that not a total fair statement i am sure there are those who may believe that. i like listening to several southern baptist ministers and they by ar preach teach there is nothing more to do because the have received eternal life and can never perish. in fact many of them preach against sin and preach repentance..i have yet to hear those i listen to say that.. and no i am not southern baptist i am ordained through gen baptist..i am mostly non denom ..

It seems there is a myriad of beliefs based on ones denomination and what one has been taught.


This is why the body of Christ is so divided, and blown about with every wind of doctrine.


This is a far cry from what Paul taught.

• Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:10-13


again


11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Ephesians 4:11-16

• that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love,

JLB

 

[chessman]

Here is my question that was not answered.


Was Judas among the twelve when Peter said this -

67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:67-69

• we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Yes, Judas was there. But didn’t you agree they were misunderstanding many of Jesus’s teachings at this point in their discipleship?

The disciples misunderstood many things Jesus said.

I’m simply pointing out when it was ( the NIGHT of John 17) that Scripture say they “truly understood”. Why??? Because it’s relevant to the OP:

They have now come-to-know that all things that You have given to Me are from You— because I have given them the words which You gave to Me, and they received them, and truly understood that I came forth from You, and believed that You sent Me forth.​

John 17:7-8 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 17:7-8&version=DLNT

 

[JLB]

Yes, Judas was there. But didn’t you agree they were misunderstanding many of Jesus’s teachings at this point in their discipleship?

I agreed that Jesus clarified any misunderstandings they had about who would inherit eternal life, specifically from this passage.


25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”

28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:25-29

• And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Judas believed that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God, and had the words of eternal life, which is why he continued to follow Jesus, when other disciples turned away from Him.


Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:67-69

• Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
• we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

I will wrap up this back and forth between you and I with this, as I believe I have made my point, and don’t want to fall into just repeating the same things.


It is my understanding that Judas was an example of those who believe for a while, then fall away, and became lost.


13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13



JLB

 

[JLB]

I’m simply pointing out when it was ( the NIGHT of John 17) that Scripture say they “truly understood”. Why??? Because it’s relevant to the OP:

They have now come-to-know that all things that You have given to Me are from You— because I have given them the words which You gave to Me, and they received them, and truly understood that I came forth from You, and believed that You sent Me forth.John 17:7-8 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 17:7-8&version=DLNT

Jesus Himself stated that Judas was one of His, but then was lost.

I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:9-12


Judas was one of His, then became a traitor and was lost.


If Judas was lost, then by default he was “found” at one point, for how does someone lose what they never had?


Just like the principle, Jesus gave us of the sheep who became lost.

Just like the example of the branch that was in the Vine for awhile then was removed.

Just like the example of the prodigal son who left the father to live in sin, and became lost.


Lost means that we have returned to being a sinner in need of repentance to be reconciled back to Him.


I have made these points, many times with the associated scriptures.


If you would like to debate this principle of what lost means, and what found means from the scriptures, and how they apply to us today, then I will ask the Mods to set it up for us.

Otherwise, I have made my point, and do not care to keep repeating these things over and over.



Respectfully yours, JLB

 

[chessman]

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Does this teach you Judas had eternal life? Or does it say “shall” inherit it if he left lands for His name’s sake? I thought Judas bought land for his selfish sake, not the name of Jesus Christ’s sake???

Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Do you believe Jesus Christ was glorified at this point?

Judas believed that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God, and had the words of eternal life,

Precisely. Jesus hadn’t yet given the words of eternal life to any of His disciples at this point. That occurs at the time I posted in John 17 (after Judas had received Satan, not eternal life)!

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

See? Jesus hadn’t yet been glorified, nor had He given the words of eternal life to His disciples.

I will wrap up this back and forth between you and I with this, as I believe I have made my point,

Yep, you made your point.

But here’s Jesus’s point for your consideration in comparison to what you believe:

They have now come-to-know that all things that You have given to Me are from You— because I have given them the words which You gave to Me, and they received them, and truly understood that I came forth from You, and believed that You sent Me forth. I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world, but for the ones whom You have given to Me— because they are Yours;​

John 17:7-9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 17:7-9&version=DLNT

When Jesus prayed for the 11 here, did He pray for Judas?

 

[ezra]

It seems there is a myriad of beliefs based on ones denomination

its in every denomination there is.. i have ran on to die hard calvinist who thinks the word free will is a cuss word and any who mention the word is a false teacher . i have met Pentecostals who feel if you have never spoke in tongues your not filled with the holy ghost . the list grows on and on .the baptist think the Pentecostals are dead. the baptist think Pentecostals are nuts . the church of Christ (some feel they are the true N.T church} i have listened to john and matt Hagee not a real big fan of john he belittles woman to much matt has to pause in his preaching to wait for a applause. i enjoy listening to charles stanley but i had rather listen by radio to him.. james merrit another good preacher.. but once again the easy believeism is man made . the big picture to many have to be right

 

[billybalke]

its in every denomination there is.. i have ran on to die hard calvinist who thinks the word free will is a cuss word and any who mention the word is a false teacher . i have met Pentecostals who feel if you have never spoke in tongues your not filled with the holy ghost . the list grows on and on .the baptist think the Pentecostals are dead. the baptist think Pentecostals are nuts . the church of Christ (some feel they are the true N.T church} i have listened to john and matt Hagee not a real big fan of john he belittles woman to much matt has to pause in his preaching to wait for a applause. i enjoy listening to charles stanley but i had rather listen by radio to him.. james merrit another good preacher.. but once again the easy believeism is man made . the big picture to many have to be right

One avenue of "easy believing" is to assume that belief alone is sufficient. I do appreciate the position of the churches of Christ.

 

[ezra]

One avenue of "easy believing" is to assume that belief alone is sufficient. I do appreciate the position of the churches of Christ.

the jailer asked good sirs what must i do to be saved? reply Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness ; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

believe is have faith saved by grace through faith easy believing is easy when done by the leading /drawing of the spirit

 

[billybalke]

the jailer asked good sirs what must i do to be saved? reply Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness ; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

believe is have faith saved by grace through faith easy believing is easy when done by the leading /drawing of the spirit

Would you agree "believe" is at times used in the generic sense?

 

[ezra]

Would you agree "believe" is at times used in the generic sense?

by the lost the false teacher yes. its the true belief not a head one a true minister not just preacher will use the word in proper context

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

the jailer asked good sirs what must i do to be saved? reply Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness ; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

believe is have faith saved by grace through faith easy believing is easy when done by the leading /drawing of the spirit

Dear Ezra good point you quoted that Paul , when asked by the jailer good sirs what must i do to be saved? replied Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
However when the same question was asked of the God of the universe , our Lord Jesus Christ , TWICE, by two different people, on two different occasions , got a vastly different answer from Jesus . And I believe His answers shatter the myth of Easy believism doctrine .
First incident : Jesus and the Rich man
Mark 10:17-31
The Rich and the Kingdom of God

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’

20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Here above Jesus is pointing at OBEYING the commandments in order to get saved. Why didn't Jesus tell the rich man BELIEVE IN ME . But he didn't. Why?
Second incident :
Luke 10:25-37 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’, and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do THIS and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

On both occasions Jesus chose not to advise these two gentlemen BELIEVE IN ME to inherit eternal life . Why didn't Jesus tell them that. Can I have your take on this Ezra. Why is Jesus's answer different than that of Paul? Does this conclusively PROVE the false doctrine of Easy believesm doctrine was crafted to make Christianity an easy visa to heaven ? It seems Paul had greater conviction than Lord Jesus in "Believing is Salvation" doctrine . Jesus , on the other hand was heavy on obedience ,much like Father God. Repentance and obedience.

 

[brujaq]

Dear Ezra good point you quoted that Paul , when asked by the jailer good sirs what must i do to be saved? replied Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
However when the same question was asked of the God of the universe , our Lord Jesus Christ , TWICE, by two different people, on two different occasions , got a vastly different answer from Jesus . And I believe His answers shatter the myth of Easy believism doctrine .
First incident : Jesus and the Rich man
Mark 10:17-31
The Rich and the Kingdom of God

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’

20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Here above Jesus is pointing at OBEYING the commandments in order to get saved. Why didn't Jesus tell the rich man BELIEVE IN ME . But he didn't. Why?
Second incident :
Luke 10:25-37 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’, and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do THIS and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

On both occasions Jesus chose not to advise these two gentlemen BELIEVE IN ME to inherit eternal life . Why didn't Jesus tell them that. Can I have your take on this Ezra. Why is Jesus's answer different than that of Paul? Does this conclusively mean Easy believesm doctrine was crafted to make Christianity an easy visa to heaven ?

That's a good question .. Why didn't Jesus run around every where claiming he was God but Paul did ?

 

[billybalke]

by the lost the false teacher yes. its the true belief not a head one a true minister not just preacher will use the word in proper context

Can you make the above post clearer?

 

[chessman]

when the same question was asked of the God of the universe , our Lord Jesus Christ , TWICE, by two different people, on two different occasions , got a vastly different answer from Jesus

No, they all three got essentially the same answer:

Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will never enter into it”. And having taken them in His arms, He was blessing them, while laying His hands on them.​

Mark 10:15-16 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Mark 10:15-16&version=DLNT

Jesus taught, like Paul, you “receive” the kingdom of God from ... (you guessed it) God!

And while He was proceeding out on the road, one having run up and knelt-before Him was asking Him, “Good Teacher, what should I do in order that I may inherit eternal life?”
Mark 10:17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Mark 10:17&version=DLNT

Jesus is so much more than a “good teacher”. This man simply didn’t understand who Jesus was. To him, He was just a good teacher, not God (of the universe). Unlike the Roman jailer, this man didn’t have the hindsight of the risen Lord Jesus Christ. Nor did this man:

But the one, wanting to vindicate himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”​

Luke 10:29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 10:29&version=DLNT

Really??? Vindicating yourself doesn’t work. You must believe in His name.

 

[Douglas Summers]

That's a good question .. Why didn't Jesus run around every where claiming he was God but Paul did ?

Because He wanted the Jewish religious leaders to recognize Him by His works,(John 10:25-39; John 5:36)) His fulfillment of prophecy and His authority over death and sin. That should have been enough, they had the Scriptures...and they did know who He was,(John 3:2) but they loved the praises of men rather then God.(John 12:42-44)

 

[ezra]

Dear Ezra good point you quoted that Paul , when asked by the jailer good sirs what must i do to be saved? replied Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
However when the same question was asked of the God of the universe , our Lord Jesus Christ , TWICE, by two different people, on two different occasions , got a vastly different answer from Jesus . And I believe His answers shatter the myth of Easy believism doctrine .
First incident : Jesus and the Rich man
Mark 10:17-31
The Rich and the Kingdom of God

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’

20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Here above Jesus is pointing at OBEYING the commandments in order to get saved. Why didn't Jesus tell the rich man BELIEVE IN ME . But he didn't. Why?
Second incident :
Luke 10:25-37 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’, and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do THIS and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

On both occasions Jesus chose not to advise these two gentlemen BELIEVE IN ME to inherit eternal life . Why didn't Jesus tell them that. Can I have your take on this Ezra. Why is Jesus's answer different than that of Paul? Does this conclusively PROVE the false doctrine of Easy believesm doctrine was crafted to make Christianity an easy visa to heaven ? It seems Paul had greater conviction than Lord Jesus in "Believing is Salvation" doctrine . Jesus , on the other hand was heavy on obedience ,much like Father God. Repentance and obedience.

2 scriptures comes to mind (1) proverbs 14: 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
(2)
2 Timothy 2:23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

[ezra]

Can you make the above post clearer?

anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

 

[brujaq]

Matthew 16:17

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

 

[billybalke]

by the lost the false teacher yes. its the true belief not a head one a true minister not just preacher will use the word in proper context

Ezra I'm sure you can explain your post better than the above. I simply had asked if the word "believe" is ever used in the generic sense. In other words in the general or inclusive sense? A simple yes or no will suffice. Thank you.