Thank you Reba, I appreciate that.
One other thing I would like to add that goes hand in hand with this idea that Christ's return has already happened and that is by something else Christ said and I would also like to say something about that as well. It is found here:
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
This passage is often presented hand in hand with the afore mentioned passage in Mat 24:34.
This was fulfilled by John on the Isle of Patmos when he saw the Lord return in glory in his vision that he related to us in the Book of Revelation.
Something else must be said about this. Between these two sets of passages, it certainly seems that Christ believed his own return in Glory to be imminent. It is well documented that he began and preached throughout his ministry that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand as found in the Gospels in Mat 3:2, 4:17, 10:7, Mark 1:15. However, even Christ admitted that he did not know the exact time that this would occur as shown in the 13th Chapter of Mark. In this whole chapter Christ speaks of His return in answer to a private question asked of him by Peter, James, John and Andrew.
I am going to copy a lengthy passage out of the Bible, which I don't like to do, but please bear with me since it is important.
It begins here:
Mar 13:3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any [man] deceive you:
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and shall deceive many.
Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for [such things] must needs be; but the end [shall] not [be] yet.
Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these [are] the beginnings of sorrows
.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
As we can see here, Christ is indicating that, even though the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand as He said previously, He acknowledges that some very traumatic events have to occur before His return.
He then goes on to say:
Mar 13:14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter [therein], to take any thing out of his house:
Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
Mar 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Mar 13:19 For [in] those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
This is about as Apocalyptic as it gets. He mentions the Abomination of Desolation from the Book of Daniel, thus tying the writings of Daniel to an apocalypse that is yet to come and also gives some detail as to how this will affect the People of God during this time.
He then says something that is very important:
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Jesus here speaks of God as having already decreed the shortening of the days of this final (actually there will be one more 1000 years later) Apocalypse, but where did that come from?
The answer is simple, it comes straight from Daniel that Christ has just quoted from concerning the Abomination of Desolation, which as we know is from Daniel chapter 9.
In Daniel 9 is also held the part where God refers to the 70 Year tribulation that Daniel prays about to a future 70 week event that is yet to come. This is why Christ says that the days will be shortened, because the Apocalypse that occurred during Daniels time that was prophesied as lasting 70 years both in Jer 25:11-12 and 29:10 as well as earlier in Isa 23:15 is the pattern for the future final (?) Apocalypse and will be shortened during that time to 70 weeks. Of course if you take the seventy weeks of Daniel and lengthen them to 490 years as many have done, then you obliterate both the words of Christ and Daniel and make this passage 'confusing' to any who misinterpret it.
This is not my basic point here though.
Mar 13:24 ¶ But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (see Rev 6:12 and Rev 8:12)
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. (see Rev 6:13)
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Mar 13:28 ¶ Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, [even] at the doors.
Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Here again we see Christ saying that "this generation shall not pass, till all...", but now he goes a bit further and explains:
Mar 13:32 ¶ But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Mar 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
The importance of this last part cannot be stressed enough.
Christ is telling us that while He knows that the time of the end is upon us, only God the Father knows the exact time and day it will occur and that not even He (Christ) is privy to that information.
If no other passage tells us that Jesus and God are separate beings, then this makes it clear. What people don't seem to understand is that they are joined in spirit as one, being linked together as one unit, while both retain their own separate identities. When you experience the Holy Spirit, this becomes understandable, because the infilling of the Holy Spirit makes you one with God and Christ is in this state always in it's most advanced form.
The point I am trying to make here is that Christ did perhaps seem to believe that the Apocalypse would be right away, but after His visit with God the Father as a man taking a far journey, He became more aware of events from Gods viewpoint and, since He already knew that a day to God is like a thousand years, because of God's immortality, things were not as quick to happen from a earthly viewpoint. While the Apocalypse was imminent from Gods perspective, mankind still had a while to go, because we had fulfilled something that was shown to us in the Book of Jonah.
Jonah was sent to Nineveh to preach that the Kingdom of God was at hand to a sinful people. We all know the story so I wont repeat it here, but at its end, God repented of his threat of immediate destruction because of the actions of the people and their king. As we know, Jonah was not happy at this because he felt it made him look like a fool and he was so mortified that he wanted to die. God then showed him, through the gourd, that, even though the destruction prophesied was to come upon them (and it did about 150 years later), they had bought themselves some time by repenting.
As we also know, Christ referred to himself as Jonah in Mat 12:4 and this is what has happened to us.
As the beggar Lazarus who died told Abraham in Luke 16:30, some would repent if one came back from the dead and this has happened in a spectacular way with the belief in Christ spreading over all the world. As a result, the destruction promised has been postponed by over 2000 years because of the work of Christ. However, since God knows everything, He made provision for this and set the scripture up to account for it in such a way that nothing was said or was done by Christ or the prophets that did not allow for this event, as I show in my End Time Chart in another thread.
Therefore, do not be deceived, the end is finally coming, the Apocalypse is soon (by our own reckoning of time) to fall upon us and none shall escape. Be certain though that some will be protected and only those who endure to the end will be ultimately saved.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Jam 1:12 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
You have shown that folks can disagree politely!