End Times Close?

[Sinthesis]

The place has to have at least been holy once, otherwise Jesus would never had described it as holy. There are no instances in the Bible where an unholy place is called a 'holy place'.

 

[Eventide]

and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months...

We do not need to speculate one bit as to the temple existing in the time of the end.. when Daniel's people shall be DELIVERED..

If we read the Revelation (or unveiling) of Jesus Christ in its correct context.. we see clearly that the Temple will exist and that the holy city shall they tread down forty and two months.. that's three and a half years.. as Revelation 11 details..

The context clearly pertains to.. the things which shall be hereafter..

Revelation 11 also details the coming kingdom of Christ when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ..

At the revelation of Jesus Christ..

 

[Eventide]

as we see that day approaching...

This present evil world at this present time refers to the things which are.. and the scriptures are limitless in speaking in accordance with the way that things are, right here, right now..

The holy scriptures also speak in miraculous detail with respect to the things which shall be hereafter.. and the Revelation of Jesus Christ clearly defines the things which are from the things which shall be hereafter.. beginning at chapter 4 of the revelation..

And this is all miraculous detail of that coming DAY... the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ... which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child...

 

[John 8:32]

The Temple Mount is holy…

Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 3:4 I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and he heard me out of his holy hill. Selah.
Psa 15:1 A Psalm of David. LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
Psa 43:3 O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.
Psa 99:9 Exalt the LORD our God, and worship at his holy hill; for the LORD our God is holy.

Now lest you think this is just metaphor and not referring to Mount Moriah let’s look at the account of David numbering Israel. You remember the story, David was looking at his military might and not God and God punished David and Israel…

1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
1Ch 21:16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.
1Ch 21:17 And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.
1Ch 21:18 Then the angel of the LORD commanded Gad to say to David, that David should go up, and set up an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

1Ch 21:25 So David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight.
1Ch 21:26 And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings, and called upon the LORD; and he answered him from heaven by fire upon the altar of burnt offering.
1Ch 21:27 And the LORD commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof.
1Ch 21:28 At that time when David saw that the LORD had answered him in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite, then he sacrificed there.

1Ch 22:1 Then David said, This is the house of the LORD God, and this is the altar of the burnt offering for Israel.

Not a stone had been laid yet, but David proclaimed this to be the House of God and God was in full agreement. This is the location that Solomon built the temple. Notice in 1Chron 21:26, God answered by sending fire from heaven to consume the offering, He accepted it.

There is no need to build a temple in the end times for Judah to begin sacrifices again. They could stack up twelve uncut field stones and offer the service of God on them and fulfill the prophecy…

Dan 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
Dan 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Yes, this was fulfilled in type once by Antiochus Epiphanes, but notice that it did not occur in 70 AD, but rather in 168 BC. This was just a typical fulfillment, the anti-type has yet to occur…

Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

So this does not fit the Preterist view that the end was in 70 AD, this occurred in 168 BC, almost 250 years prior to the so called end.

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So keep this in mind while you are studying this prophecy, sacrifices can be reinstituted without the construction of a temple. Will a temple be built? Who knows, it very likely could be, but the prophecy does not require that it be. God views the Temple Mount as holy and sacrifices can be performed there without a temple.

 

[Hitch]

Re: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months...

We do not need to speculate one bit as to the temple existing in the time of the end.. when Daniel's people shall be DELIVERED..

LOL You must have missed all the Christmass stuff, the Deliever arrived 2,000 years ago .

If we read the Revelation (or unveiling) of Jesus Christ in its correct context.. we see clearly that the Temple will exist and that the holy city shall they tread down forty and two months.. that's three and a half years.. as Revelation 11 details..

The context of the Apocalypse ;

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

The context clearly pertains to.. the things which shall be hereafter..

Im curious why you claim Dan's people will be delivered and Luke claims that the oath was fulfilled? Why do you think you can contradict Luke?

Revelation 11 also details the coming kingdom of Christ when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ..

LOL Christ announced His kingdom Himself while He was here, just after the resurrection He informed us that He is the seat of all the power and authority there is. Paul leaves no doubt that believers are translated into His kingdom. This as Paul taught is the very kingdom the prophets foresaw.

At the revelation of Jesus Christ..

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

 

[Zinc]

The point being, the "great tribulation" that Jesus refers to is such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, which would disqualify the events of 70 AD, as that had already happened by the Babylonians!

JLB

(1) I'm not claiming that the events of AD70 fulfill it.
(2) They just needed to think that the 2nd temple destruction would be a worse time.

 

[Eventide]

As a thief in the night... and as travail upon a woman with child...

It would be absurd to say the least that the Day of the Lord has already come.. and the Apostle to the Gentiles warns the body of Christ against those who would say that it has come.. as we can see that Day approaching..

Large portions of the ancient OT scriptures speak of the Day of the Lord.. as does the NT through the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ... Rev 4-20 reveals the Day of the Lord in miraculous living and powerful detail.

There's infinitely more to come.. WHEN He comes in that day.. at the revelation of Jesus Christ..

 

[Zinc]

The point being the temple is intact at the time of the great tribulation!

The temple can be destroyed during that time of great tribulation.

As I said before:

Fact is, is that the disciples do ask about the destruction of the temple, specifically about the timing of the destruction of the temple. Jesus, in his answer, doesn't need to go into detail about the destruction of the temple, but he does need to speak on timing.

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?..."

You mention "context" here, well the discourse starts out in response to a question about the temple's destruction, so you would expect the temple's destruction to still be in view. (There is also a second question, so that second subject would also be expected to be in view.)


Also, if you look at the parallel chapter in Luke 21, it's pretty clear that the temple destruction is picked up again in the parallel section of Luke 21:20-24. (But never explicitly mentioned.)

 

[joep222]

We are in the end times. The end times, by definition, are from the moment Christ Jesus ascended into Heaven until He returns in glory. Are we close to His return? Yes. Will it happen in our lifetime? Only as God wills.

 

[JLB]

The temple can be destroyed during that time of great tribulation.

As I said before:

Fact is, is that the disciples do ask about the destruction of the temple, specifically about the timing of the destruction of the temple. Jesus, in his answer, doesn't need to go into detail about the destruction of the temple, but he does need to speak on timing.

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?..."

You mention "context" here, well the discourse starts out in response to a question about the temple's destruction, so you would expect the temple's destruction to still be in view. (There is also a second question, so that second subject would also be expected to be in view.)


Also, if you look at the parallel chapter in Luke 21, it's pretty clear that the temple destruction is picked up again in the parallel section of Luke 21:20-24. (But never explicitly mentioned.)

Matthew records a different perspective than that of Luke, for good reason, Luke records only one question which pertains to the temple, while Matthew records two questions, the latter of which concerns the "the sign of your coming and the end of the age".

Keep in mind that they are talking to Jesus face to face, yet they are asking Him about His coming and the end of the age.

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.

While on the temple grounds the disciples came up to show Jesus the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Jesus responds to their gesture of showing Him the buildings of the temple by saying to them that the buildings of the temple would be destroyed.


3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

In Matthew 24 and 25, Jesus is recorded as addressing the question about the sign of His coming and the end of the age.

Starting in verse 4, "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many...

He goes right to the context of His answer,and all the way to the end of chapter 25, without one single reference to the destruction of the city and sanctuary!


Luke on the other hand, records only one question, which concerns the destruction of the temple, which is why we find language to that effect in Luke 21.

However in Matthew 24 and 25, it should be clear, by the absence of language that pertains to the destruction of the city and sanctuary, that The Coming of The Lord and the end of the age is in no way associated with the events of 70 AD.

Furthermore, Jesus refers to Daniel in Matthew, but not in Luke.

A thorough study of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary to understand what Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24 & 25.

JLB

 

[Zinc]

In Matthew 24 and 25, Jesus is recorded as addressing the question about the sign of His coming and the end of the age.

So it ignores one of the questions? Not very likely.

He goes right to the context of His answer, and all the way to the end of chapter 25, without one single reference to the destruction of the city and sanctuary!

Maybe that's how you read it.

But:

(a) We can easily read an implicit reference to the temple's destruction in the chapter.
(b) Jesus, in his answer, doesn't need to go into detail about the destruction of the temple, but he does need to speak on timing. (Because that's what he was asked about.)

 

[cupid dave]

The "abomination of desolation" is likely a reference to some kind of idolatrous desecration of the temple. There is then a time of "great tribulation" which could easily include the destruction of the temple.

Jesus quotes Daniel:


Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, (70 AD), and the abomination (of the Dome of the Rock) that maketh desolate (the holiest of the Holy Place, be) set up (in 690 AD), there shall be (1290 years), a thousand two hundred and ninety days, (1290 + 690 = 1980AD, when the Jews, again are in possession of Jerusalem).

Dan. 12:12 Blessed is he, (in 1980 AD), that waiteth (45 more years), and cometh to (the end: i.e.; 1980 + 45 =2025AD), the thousand, three hundred and five and thirty days, (2K25 AD).
　

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see (the Dome of the Rock finished, in 690 AD), the abomination, (denying Christ is the son of God), of (the Temple's) desolation (sitting directly on the Temple grounds), spoken of by Daniel the prophet: [Dan. 12:11], standing (in the demolished temple area) where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand: [Matthew 24:15]), then let them, (Jew and Christian), that (still) be in Judaea, (in 690 AD, as many Jews still were with the mostly immigrant Christian population), flee,... (for death or Islam will become mandatory), flee to the mountains (as have most other Jews in the Diaspora that already had taken place previously in 70 AD):