End Times Confusing - Preterism

[Sinthesis]

Re: End Times confusing

Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and they follow me. I hear his voice...it transcends mere language and metaphors.

So you're a literal sheep?

Yes. If Jesus said so then i am....aren't you? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to.

Except Jesus didn't say you were a literal sheep, because you are not a literal sheep. We can, however, identify ourselves as His figurative sheep.

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: End Times confusing

Reply to post 39 (grappler)

No my friend, I do not avoid the book of the revelation. I just do not interpret it as literally as you do. It is not a book of future events, if is the "revelation" (the unveiling, revealing) of Jesus Christ. It is the unveiling of Christ both head and body.

By the way you did not respond to Heb.10:12-13 at all. This is a very plain scripture which completely contradicts your interpretation of the revelation. Please respond to the above mentioned text instead of giving me your opinion about the book of the revelation.
Thanks, blessings

 

[Hope of glory]

Reply to post 40 (Endtimesduet32/70ad)

Thank you, blessings my friend

 

[JLB]

Re: End Times confusing

the persecutiin of Nero and the war with the saints

The war was with the Jews who were defending the right to continue with animal sacrifices.

Not Christians. Not saints.

JLB

 

[Grappler]

Re: End Times confusing

Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and they follow me. I hear his voice...it transcends mere language and metaphors.

So you're a literal sheep?

Yes. If Jesus said so then i am....aren't you? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to.

Except Jesus didn't say you were a literal sheep, because you are not a literal sheep. We can, however, identify ourselves as His figurative sheep.

BAAA....BAAA....is that how a sheep sounds? Jesus was speaking allegorically and you understood that to be allegorical didn't you? Please read my post 22.

 

[Grappler]

Re: End Times confusing

Reply to post 39 (grappler)

No my friend, I do not avoid the book of the revelation. I just do not interpret it as literally as you do. It is not a book of future events, if is the "revelation" (the unveiling, revealing) of Jesus Christ. It is the unveiling of Christ both head and body.

By the way you did not respond to Heb.10:12-13 at all. This is a very plain scripture which completely contradicts your interpretation of the revelation. Please respond to the above mentioned text instead of giving me your opinion about the book of the revelation.
Thanks, blessings

FYI..you can reply directly to my quote for a quicker response. You claim that it is not a book of future of events. So is it a book of past events? Maybe I don't take Hebrews as literally as you do...as a matter of fact you add to the scripture of Hebrews. You make the assertion that Jesus is going to sit in Heaven until you and those who believe like you conquer all of his enemies. It does not say that either. Maybe he will be the one to make his enemies his footstool...not you and those who believe like you. As i said before...i don't know if you keep up with the current geo-political system of the world (you should since you and those who believe like you are supposed to conquer it for Jesus...lol) but the world is rapidly being driven towards a global one-world government just as the book of Revelation predicts. Evil men are waxing worse and worse...you guys are not doing a very good job of conquering the world for Jesus you better step it up a notch.

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: End Times confusing

Grappler,
I take Hebrews literally
The book of revelation does speak of past events yes but I do not take a preterist view of it. However it is nit a book of "futuristic events". The things that shall be "hereafter", are things that are connected to and associated with the things which already exist in Christ. We can talk more about the revelation later.
As for the "geo-political system", that is not my focus. I don't determine what the scriptures say based upon the wickedness of the world...."but we see Jesus" (who has already put all things under his feet-Heb.2:8-9). Keep your eyes locked on Jesus my friend...."as he is so are we in this world" (1john4:17)

Here is another scripture which you can connect with the Hebrews scripture, to connect what i am saying.
"And he shall sent Jesus Christ which before was preached unto you, whom the heaven must receive (retain) until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Jesus must remain in heaven until the time when all things have been restored to their original state.
Kinda sounds a lot like Hebrews.

What you don't understand is that Jesus "finished" HIS work (john19:30). He now rests and waits, expecting.....
He has now sent his Spirit into his Church and now "Christ is our life" (col.3:4)
Now, as the Son rests, the Spirit is at work in the church employing (out working) the finished work, bringing total restoration to the earth.
Jesus now reigns as King through the Church by the Spirit!
His kingdom is within you (luke17:20-21).
What you think Jesus will do (come and destroy the evil in this world with violence and and war) he will nit do. The 1st century Jews thought the same thing. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Rom.14:17)

Consider connecting the dots with these 4 scriptures

Numbers 14:21 (God said this)
"But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the GLORY of the Lord"
Heb.1:3 "Who being the brightness of His (Gods) GLORY and the express image of his person...
John 17:22 "And the GLORY which thou gavest me I have given them..."
Col.1:27 "To whom God would make known what is the riches if the GLORY of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of GLORY".


Because "it is finished" the church can now employ what Jesus has made available and possible; we must

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: End Times confusing

Here is the connection my friend.

God swore that all the earth would be filled with his glory (Num.14:21)
Jesus came as the glory of God (Heb.1:3)
Jesus died to bring many sons unto glory, and he has given to the church in himself the very glory of God (john17:22)
It is now Christ (who is the glory if God) in us, which is the hope (the absolute expectance) of all the earth being filled with the glory of God. (col.1:27)

This is not some fairy tale doctrine, this is "the mystery which hath been hidden from ages and from generations but is NOW made manifest to his saints...which Christ in you (in us,
the church) the hope of glory.(col.1:26-27)
Christ in us is the answer to the world. We are salt and light.
By the way you need to understand "glory".

Glory is: the exhibition and demonstration of the character and nature of the Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the glory if God. As we exhibit and demonstrate his character and nature, we show forth the very glory of the Father.

This is how the earth will be filled with the glory of God. The kingdom of God (righteousness, peace, and joy) which is in us, must be released from us, that the glory of his Kingdom may fill the earth around us.

This is our "high calling in Christ Jesus, this is the "hope of the gospel", this is the "ONE hope of his calling", this is that "blessed hope", this is the "hope of glory"! (Philip.3:14 col.1:23 Eph.4:4 titus2:13 col.1:26-27)

My friend, may you see the" mystery of Christ" and embrace it!

 

[Grappler]

Re: End Times confusing

Grappler,
I take Hebrews literally
The book of revelation does speak of past events yes but I do not take a preterist view of it. However it is nit a book of "futuristic events". The things that shall be "hereafter", are things that are connected to and associated with the things which already exist in Christ. We can talk more about the revelation later.
As for the "geo-political system", that is not my focus. I don't determine what the scriptures say based upon the wickedness of the world...."but we see Jesus" (who has already put all things under his feet-Heb.2:8-9). Keep your eyes locked on Jesus my friend...."as he is so are we in this world" (1john4:17)

Here is another scripture which you can connect with the Hebrews scripture, to connect what i am saying.
"And he shall sent Jesus Christ which before was preached unto you, whom the heaven must receive (retain) until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Jesus must remain in heaven until the time when all things have been restored to their original state.
Kinda sounds a lot like Hebrews.

What you don't understand is that Jesus "finished" HIS work (john19:30). He now rests and waits, expecting.....
He has now sent his Spirit into his Church and now "Christ is our life" (col.3:4)
Now, as the Son rests, the Spirit is at work in the church employing (out working) the finished work, bringing total restoration to the earth.
Jesus now reigns as King through the Church by the Spirit!
His kingdom is within you (luke17:20-21).
What you think Jesus will do (come and destroy the evil in this world with violence and and war) he will nit do. The 1st century Jews thought the same thing. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Rom.14:17)

Consider connecting the dots with these 4 scriptures

Numbers 14:21 (God said this)
"But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the GLORY of the Lord"
Heb.1:3 "Who being the brightness of His (Gods) GLORY and the express image of his person...
John 17:22 "And the GLORY which thou gavest me I have given them..."
Col.1:27 "To whom God would make known what is the riches if the GLORY of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of GLORY".


Because "it is finished" the church can now employ what Jesus has made available and possible; we must

That is exactly what i thought...you don't really know what is going on geo-politically. We are living in the last days of this age prior to the return of our Lord and you don't even realize it. You put your faith in your own works to bring about the desctruction of evil...well...as i said before you are not doing a good job. Planet Earth is being set up for a one-world government, a one-world religion, a one-world currency by the evil globalists and you don't even know it....you really need to wake up my friend...but if you really are a child of God you will persevere through these tribulations that are coming upon the world.

 

[Grappler]

Re: End Times confusing

Grappler,
I take Hebrews literally
The book of revelation does speak of past events yes but I do not take a preterist view of it. However it is nit a book of "futuristic events". The things that shall be "hereafter", are things that are connected to and associated with the things which already exist in Christ. We can talk more about the revelation later.
As for the "geo-political system", that is not my focus. I don't determine what the scriptures say based upon the wickedness of the world...."but we see Jesus" (who has already put all things under his feet-Heb.2:8-9). Keep your eyes locked on Jesus my friend...."as he is so are we in this world" (1john4:17)

Here is another scripture which you can connect with the Hebrews scripture, to connect what i am saying.
"And he shall sent Jesus Christ which before was preached unto you, whom the heaven must receive (retain) until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Jesus must remain in heaven until the time when all things have been restored to their original state.
Kinda sounds a lot like Hebrews.

What you don't understand is that Jesus "finished" HIS work (john19:30). He now rests and waits, expecting.....
He has now sent his Spirit into his Church and now "Christ is our life" (col.3:4)
Now, as the Son rests, the Spirit is at work in the church employing (out working) the finished work, bringing total restoration to the earth.
Jesus now reigns as King through the Church by the Spirit!
His kingdom is within you (luke17:20-21).
What you think Jesus will do (come and destroy the evil in this world with violence and and war) he will nit do. The 1st century Jews thought the same thing. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Rom.14:17)

Consider connecting the dots with these 4 scriptures

Numbers 14:21 (God said this)
"But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the GLORY of the Lord"
Heb.1:3 "Who being the brightness of His (Gods) GLORY and the express image of his person...
John 17:22 "And the GLORY which thou gavest me I have given them..."
Col.1:27 "To whom God would make known what is the riches if the GLORY of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of GLORY".


Because "it is finished" the church can now employ what Jesus has made available and possible; we must

It is kind of funny how you like to quote Hebrews. Paul is thought by some bible history scholars to be the author of that book. That same Paul said that before the coming of our Lord and our gathering together to him there will be a FALLING AWAY. So let me get this straight. You claim that you and those who believe like you (whoever they are) are going to get the world ready for Jesus to return while at the same time this FALLING AWAY is going on?lol You make this absurd claim that we humans are going to cleanse the world of evil and then Jesus is going to come back....well freind you forgot about that FALLING AWAY didn't you? A FALLING AWAY is an evil thing...wouldn't you agree?

 

[Eugene]

Re: End Times confusing

It is kind of funny how you like to quote Hebrews. Paul is thought by some bible history scholars to be the author of that book.

Just an informational note here.

Paul authored the following fourteen books of the New Testament which are considered "His gospel," though he didn't personally write all of them. Many don't attribute the "Epistle of Hebrews" to the Apostle Paul, but 2 Thessalonians 3:17-18 says, "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write. (18) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." This is the way Paul signed off in his letters to these different churches. To me and others, the following verses indicate that Paul authored Hebrews.

Hebrews 13:25 closes with "Grace be with you all. Amen."

Hebrews 10:34 says "For ye had compassion of me in my bonds."

Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Hebrews

 

[JLB]

Re: End Times confusing

"but we see Jesus" (who has already put all things under his feet-Heb.2:8-9).

who has already put all things under his feet ?

8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet." For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. Hebrews 2:8

Like Grappler said, you seem to add things to Hebrews. For it does not say what you quoted in your post.

Or maybe you could clarify what you mean.

You have put all things in subjection under his feet is a reference to the Garden of Eden, in which the Lord said to mankind -

26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." Genesis 1:26

Hopefully you understand this and I'm just misunderstanding what you mean.

Thanks JLB

 

[jasoncran]

full preterism is a heresy and thus not allowed outside the one on one debate forum.

 

[JLB]

Re: End Times confusing

God swore that all the earth would be filled with his glory (Num.14:21)

Nice scripture.

Here are the other cornerstones [4] of the foundation of truth, [Dominion Truth].

• Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion... Genesis 1:26

• You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. Daniel 2:34-35

• Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" Revelation 11:15

Your scripture, which I quote from Habakkuk, but reveals more from Numbers:

• For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, As the waters cover the sea. Habakkuk 2:14

To me, the center piece of the foundation of understanding is what Jesus gave us when He said - Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

I relate these four scriptures as the four cornerstones of Dominion truth that governs our understanding of God's will for mankind. I say mankind, because we were yet contained in Adams loins when the Lord spoke this to Adam and Eve.

What He said to Adam applies to us.

JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: End Times confusing

Grappler, you have so far ignored all the scriptures I have given you. Your replies are nothing more than your opinion based on how bad you see the world.
I have shown by scripture that:
God said the earth would be filled with his glory.
Jesus came as that glory
In Christ, we, the Church now carry and exhibit that same glory
It is now Christ in us that is the only hope of this earth being filled with the Fathers glory.

If you disagree, give me some scriptures that prove me wrong, not your opinion
Thanks

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: End Times confusing

Sorry JLB I misquoted Heb.2:8-9
The reference should have been
Eph.1:22 "and hath put all things under his feet..."
Good correction, thank you.
What is true of the "head" must also become true of the "body", amen

 

[Hope of glory]

Full preterism is heresy, I agree. And so is dispensationalism.
I'm not a preterist just so know.
Blessings

 

[Grappler]

full preterism is a heresy and thus not allowed outside the one on one debate forum.

 

[Hope of glory]

Re: End Times confusing

Amen JLB. I think we are on the same page brother.
The commandment given to Adam from the beginning can now walked out in the earth, man had been restored to the garden in Christ.
We are the glory of God in the earth!
What many don't understand is that Christ is both head and body
Gal.3:16 "Now to Abraham and to his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of one, and to thy
Seed, which is Christ.

According to Gal.3:16 Abrahams seed is Christ

Gal.3:29 "and if Ye be Christ's then you are Abrahams seed...

According to Gal.3:29 the church is Abrahams seed.

The church is Abrahams seed
Abrahams seed is Christ
Therefore the Church is Christ
Jesus the head and the church his body are ONE. Both head and body are Christ.
This is how "the Christ" will fill this earth with the glory of God.
Head and body are "one Spirit" (1cor.6:17)
We are bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh (Eph.5:30)
Christ is ONE.
This is simplicity of the gospel. As he is, so are we in this world.
It's good to fellowship with a brother in "light"!
Blessings my friend

 

[Grappler]

Re: End Times confusing

Grappler, you have so far ignored all the scriptures I have given you. Your replies are nothing more than your opinion based on how bad you see the world.
I have shown by scripture that:
God said the earth would be filled with his glory.
Jesus came as that glory
In Christ, we, the Church now carry and exhibit that same glory
It is now Christ in us that is the only hope of this earth being filled with the Fathers glory.

If you disagree, give me some scriptures that prove me wrong, not your opinion
Thanks

Actually you ignore my responses because you know that you can not address them. I provide you scripture and you ignore it because it disagrees with your views...whatever they are. What kind of church do you attend? You claim that you are not a preterists or a dispensationalists. Well i for one deny both as well....but you seem really confused about scripture and just keep saying the same thing over and over without addressing any of my questions or statements...why is that?