End Times Question

[th1b.taylor]

Hi Bro Bill, I can't get passed Matthew 24:29-31 ..

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

The one thing I try always to teach is a thing I learned in the Third Grade when the 3 Rs were still taught. Before one arrived at the doors of Junior High,the Seventh Grade we understood a Sentence, a Paragraph and possibly a chapter of any book could be fully understood without all of the implications of the rest of the text bearing and molding the passage you seek to understand.

With the Dumbing Down of our schools, this is no longer stressed except in Christian Schools and Home Schooling. TI have included with your questioned verses give them Local or Short Context only but I believe that is what you want right now.

These are, for others, the words of Jesus. He has been asked when the events preceding the the Rapture, the Catching Away of His Saints will occur and in His wisdom

 

[for_his_glory]

In Matthew 24:29 when was there ever a time when the sun was darkened and the moon not giving her light, and did the stars fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shaken.

Now look at vs. 30, 31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The key verse is vs. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days, what days, the end of days after Gods mighty wrath starting with the first trumpet an ending at the seventh trumpet, which includes the seven vial judgements.

 

[th1b.taylor]

and i cant get passed
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

True but people insist on losing the context. I have no idea how I hit the Return key but that post is now completed.

and i cant get passed
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

People get all upset when I give my thoughts on this one but here goes old loud mouth, again! We need to back up and see who Jesus was Talking about and often observe the sentence structure. In this case the one piece of evidence I lean most heavily on is the Fig Tree Jesus cursed.

Israel is the fruit of God/Jesus and the Fig Tree is Israel. The Fig Tree bore fruit onMay 14,1948 and Israel, a nation destroyed was reborn in a single day. As I see it, the Baby Boomers, us, are that generation Jesus spoke prophetically of. Much to the disappointment of that generation in the first century, it was not the generation of His Human Piers but was those He spoke of, in the future, us or our children's generation.

 

[Jim Parker]

Then you must have three events of Christ arriving on in the Earth because the thousand year reign and the seven day/year reign of Anti-Christ rule must also take place.

The "thousand years" is alternately understood by many scholars as "a long time."
I believe that scripture tells us Jesus began His reign on earth before His ascension to the Father.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth"
That's what a king has; "All authority."
So that "long time" of Jesus physical reign on Earth, so far, is almost 2000 years.

Jesus physically reigns on earth through his physical body, the Church.
Eph 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body,
Eph 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church,
Col 1:24 ... His body, which is the church,
We are His body physically present on earth with authority to rule and subdue every spiritual assault upon mankind.
We have the authority to bind all of Satan's powers and to destroy his kingdom.
Mat 16:17-19 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
The "Rock" (IMO) is Peter's confession, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." ( Mat 16:16)
The "Gates of Hell" (Hades) are (IMO) the strongholds of Satan's kingdom which cannot stand up against the power and authority granted the saints of God but will collapse IF ONLY we will assault them.

I think the "seven day/year reign of Anti-Christ rule" comes just before Jesus' return.

That's how I see it. :wink

Iakov the fool

 

[Northman]

a nation destroyed was reborn in a single day.

If it wasn't, and rather it took years of planning and preparation, would that change anything?

 

[brujaq]

If it wasn't, and rather it took years of planning and preparation, would that change anything?

Yes it would, it wouldn't be absolutely amazing ..

 

[for_his_glory]

What part of Matthew 24:30, 31 do people not get. When you read the events in vs. 29 and then read vs. 30 and 31 it clearly says Jesus will return at the end of those events and that is when we will be caught up to Him. The fig tree parable is talking about knowing when that of vs. 29 happens then know by these signs that the return of Christ is right at the door meaning at the end of the sun being darkened, moon gives no more light, stars fall from heaven and the powers of heaven are shaken. Then will Jesus send out His angels to the four corners of the earth to gather up to Him those who are His own.

 

[JLB]

and i cant get passed
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

I know you can’t.

The generation that see’s the signs He listed, will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds.


JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

The "thousand years" is alternately understood by many scholars as "a long time."
I believe that scripture tells us Jesus began His reign on earth before His ascension to the Father.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth"
That's what a king has; "All authority."
So that "long time" of Jesus physical reign on Earth, so far, is almost 2000 years.0

Jim,
If you believe that I must be concerned with your End Times Eschatology. You have jerked this single verse out of it's context to use it as a Proof Text destroying what God intended when He huad i9t written down,

Proof Texting Definition

Many times when someone discusses what the Bible teaches what they may use, even though they may be unaware of it, what is called Proof Text. Proof texting uses certain short passages, many times only a single verse, pulled from the Bible in support of a particular belief or doctrine.

The problem with this method is that the person who is Proof texting usually gives their selected verses a meaning that may be entirely different from what the writer intended. The Bible is written in such a way that most verses cannot be correctly understood in a stand-alone fashion. The context of a particular verse, who wrote it, the time period in which it was written, where did they write it, etc. is needed to arrive at what God intended it to convey.


Proof texting can easily lead to wrong conclusions regarding what is the truth of God. An argument or doctrinal stand that relies heavily on proof passages is ultimately considered weak. In fact, those who preach and teach others based on such special passages in Scripture are generally viewed negatively by true Biblical scholars and those who seriously study the word of God.
[found @ http://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/definition-of-christian-terms/prooftexting.html]

And your verse here is the first verse of what everybody knows is the first verse of the great Commission and has nothing to do with His rule over the planet.

Jesus physically reigns on earth through his physical body, the Church.
Eph 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body,
Eph 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church,
Col 1:24 ... His body, which is the church,
We are His body physically present on earth with authority to rule and subdue every spiritual assault upon mankind.
We have the authority to bind all of Satan's powers and to destroy his kingdom.

31 Because of this a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall be united to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh.
The scripture above is the next verse behind and is in direct context with the Ephesians verse you posted ..

 

[reba]

If it wasn't, and rather it took years of planning and preparation, would that change anything?

not when the mind is madeup

 

[th1b.taylor]

If it wasn't, and rather it took years of planning and preparation, would that change anything?

Yes, it would have been leaving God out.

 

[reba]

th1b.taylor Check the scriptures real close and show me how that little plot of land is the same as the promise God gave to Abraham.
The Jews were/are a nation with or wiht out the land

 

[th1b.taylor]

th1b.taylor Check the scriptures real close and show me how that little plot of land is the same as the promise God gave to Abraham.
The Jews were/are a nation with or wiht out the land

No need, the first time i read the passages describing the boundaries of Israel Iold my wife that Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and possibly others will not be happy when Jesus returns and fully restores Israel because it is huge. I already teach your point at times.

 

[Jim Parker]

And your verse here is the first verse of what everybody knows is the first verse of the great Commission and has nothing to do with His rule over the planet.

Jesus said ALL AUTHORITY (That means He has total rule; there is nothing that is not under His authority.)
IN HEAVEN AND EARTH (That means both in heaven and on this planet.)
HAS BEEN (That is in the past tense; it is an accomplished fact.)
GIVEN TO ME. (Jesus had received total rule in heaven and earth at that point in time.)

The "Great Commission" follows that statement.
Jesus said "THEREFORE (that is, because all power and authority in heaven and earth has been given to Him) Go" and make disciples.

The "Great Commission " does not cancel out Jesus statement that all authority in heaven and on earth had been given to him. Neither is it a reason for you to ignore what Jesus stated about having all authority in heaven and earth.

You are essentially saying that Jesus DID NOT HAVE all authority in heaven and earth at that moment ans, apparently, you hold that He still does not.

31 Because of this a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall be united to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh.
The scripture above is the next verse

That would be the "heretical statement" of me and Paul.
You have attempted to "proof text" out Paul's teaching at Eph 5:30 by using one other verse and trying to say that Paul didn't really mean what He said.

PAUL SAID:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church,

and he also said:

Eph 5:30-32 For we are members of His body, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So Paul is talking about Christ and the Church being ONE FLESH.
Is that heresy?

 

[reba]

closed for review
A little clean up...
This thread will be moved to End times...
Guys stop the insulting of one another ... it is really ok to have different opinions...
The Gospels are not exactly identical 'member?

 

[for_his_glory]

The "thousand years" is alternately understood by many scholars as "a long time."
I believe that scripture tells us Jesus began His reign on earth before His ascension to the Father.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth"
That's what a king has; "All authority."
So that "long time" of Jesus physical reign on Earth, so far, is almost 2000 years.

Jesus physically reigns on earth through his physical body, the Church.
Eph 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body,
Eph 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church,
Col 1:24 ... His body, which is the church,
We are His body physically present on earth with authority to rule and subdue every spiritual assault upon mankind.
We have the authority to bind all of Satan's powers and to destroy his kingdom.
Mat 16:17-19 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
The "Rock" (IMO) is Peter's confession, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." ( Mat 16:16)
The "Gates of Hell" (Hades) are (IMO) the strongholds of Satan's kingdom which cannot stand up against the power and authority granted the saints of God but will collapse IF ONLY we will assault them.

I think the "seven day/year reign of Anti-Christ rule" comes just before Jesus' return.

That's how I see it. :wink

Iakov the fool

Matthew 28:18 has nothing to do with the 1000 years in Revelations 20:1-3. The authority Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 28:18 was that of God giving Jesus all His power and authority as even Jesus could not work outside of Gods will.

Reread Ephesians 1:22, 23, but start at vs. 15 it is God that has put all things under the feet of Jesus as God set Him as head of the body that is in Christ and He in them. The body is the fullness of Christ as He is in them, not reigning over them.

All authority and power comes from God and not of ourselves even though we are the body of Christ here on earth, but yet a Spiritual body united in Christ as it is through Gods power and authority that He works in us and through us.

Antichrist has always been from the beginning of Satan's fall as he works through those that have no faith and continues until Christ returns and cast the beast and false prophet into the lake if fire, 1 John 2:18-27; Rev 19:11-21.

 

[for_his_glory]

True but people insist on losing the context. I have no idea how I hit the Return key but that post is now completed.

People get all upset when I give my thoughts on this one but here goes old loud mouth, again! We need to back up and see who Jesus was Talking about and often observe the sentence structure. In this case the one piece of evidence I lean most heavily on is the Fig Tree Jesus cursed.

Israel is the fruit of God/Jesus and the Fig Tree is Israel. The Fig Tree bore fruit onMay 14,1948 and Israel, a nation destroyed was reborn in a single day. As I see it, the Baby Boomers, us, are that generation Jesus spoke prophetically of. Much to the disappointment of that generation in the first century, it was not the generation of His Human Piers but was those He spoke of, in the future, us or our children's generation.

Israel might have become a nation again in 1948, but not all who are of Israel have accepted Jesus as Messiah.
Many things Jesus taught were from the OT as the fig tree in Luke 13:6-9 is crossed referenced to Isaiah 5:2 and Matthew 21:18, 19 in the NT. The fig tree represents those who have no faith and as the fig tree that bears no fruit will just whither away.

 

[Jim Parker]

Matthew 28:18 has nothing to do with the 1000 years in Revelations 20:1-3. The authority Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 28:18 was that of God giving Jesus all His power and authority as even Jesus could not work outside of Gods will.

Revelation is apocalyptic literature and highly symbolic.
Mat 28:18 is a clear statement of fact. ALL authority in heaven AND earth was given to Jesus at that time.
Jesus didn't work outside God's will because Jesus IS God, the 2nd person of the Trinity.

Reread Ephesians 1:22, 23, but start at vs. 15 it is God that has put all things under the feet of Jesus as God set Him as head of the body that is in Christ and He in them. The body is the fullness of Christ as He is in them, not reigning over them.

Eph 1:3a Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 1:15-17a Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ
Eph 1:20-23 ... (God) worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
So then, are you saying that Christ is not the LORD or that He's not the LORD right now?

Those verses state that Jesus IS the LORD, RIGHT NOW, of ALL THINGS in THIS AGE AND in The AGE TO COME.
ANd that is essentially the same as what Jesus said at Mat 28:18, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

Antichrist has always been from the beginning of Satan's fall as he works through those that have no faith and continues until Christ returns and cast the beast and false prophet into the lake if fire, 1 John 2:18-27; Rev 19:11-21.

I agree.

 

[for_his_glory]

Revelation is apocalyptic literature and highly symbolic.
Mat 28:18 is a clear statement of fact. ALL authority in heaven AND earth was given to Jesus at that time.
Jesus didn't work outside God's will because Jesus IS God, the 2nd person of the Trinity.

Eph 1:3a Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 1:15-17a Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ
Eph 1:20-23 ... (God) worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
So then, are you saying that Christ is not the LORD or that He's not the LORD right now?

Those verses state that Jesus IS the LORD, RIGHT NOW, of ALL THINGS in THIS AGE AND in The AGE TO COME.
ANd that is essentially the same as what Jesus said at Mat 28:18, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."


I agree.

Revelation is very much literal in parts and symbolic in other parts. It was you that was making a comparison of Matthew 28:18 with the 1000 year reign of Christ. How can Jesus physically reign here on earth when He has not returned yet? Does Jesus physically or Spiritually live in us?

Jesus is the head of the body of Christ being those who are in Christ and His Spirit in them as being the Spiritual head of the family like a husband is the Spiritual head of his family.

The four questions you ask I am not even going to dignify them with and answer as why would you even ask me.

 

[Jim Parker]

How can Jesus physically reign here on earth when He has not returned yet? Does Jesus physically or Spiritually live in us?

The Church is Christ's physical body so He can reign on earth through His body, the Church.

Jesus is the head of the body of Christ being those who are in Christ and His Spirit in them as being the Spiritual head of the family like a husband is the Spiritual head of his family.

The Husband is also the PHYSICAL head of the family as Jesus is the Physical head of the Church.

The four questions you ask I am not even going to dignify them with and answer as why would you even ask me.

I asked you because you appeared to state that Jesus is NOT Lord of heaven and earth right now.
If that's not what you meant then please clarify your meaning.