Enoch

[for_his_glory]

Edward

Gen 5:18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
Gen 5:19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
Gen 5:20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
Gen 5:21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
Gen 5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
Gen 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.


Enoch walked faithfully with God, which reveals why he was so special to God as God sent him out to preach to others in the land of Mesopotamia situated between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Today this would be the areas of Iraq, Kuwait, Turkey and Syria. In this wicked period before the Flood, most men did not walk faithfully with God. They walked their own path, the crooked way of sin. Enoch did not keep silent about the sin around him as Jude says Enoch prophesied against their evil ways and the judgement that would come upon them.

In Jude 1:14-16 we read that those who Enoch preached to were very sinful people and Enoch did not keep silent about the sin around him as he prophesied against those walking after their own lusts. Jude says Enoch prophesied against those evil people and that would have made them angry enough to put Enoch to death.

According to Genesis 5:23, Enoch’s life-span was 365 years, which was much younger then others in that time period. Throughout those years, he walked in faith, and that made all the difference. No matter what happened, he trusted God. He obeyed God. God loved Enoch so much he spared him the experience of death as God translated him that he should not see death as no one could find him, but never says where he was translated. It's only man's traditional teachings that say he was taken up to the third heaven, but this would come against what Jesus said in John 3:13.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Enoch stood out from many others as He walked with God in great faith. He being taken by God that he could not be found or taste death could be that God translated/transferred him to a safer place, like that of Elijah and Philip that were only translated/transferred, that Enoch would not see the kind of violent death that would have otherwise come upon him in a hostile atmosphere where he was preaching the word of God. What Enoch taught would have challenged the heretical beliefs of those in that area who no doubt worshiped their own gods and idols just like those in Jerusalem that came against Christ and had Him killed.

(Side note)

Elijah, having ascended into the air (First heaven) by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.

Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.

Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Act 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

 

[Edward]

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

So if Enoch was translated somewhere so he wouldn't see death (wouldn't die), then where was he translated to if not Heaven? Enoch is certainly not unconscios in his grave because he doesn't have a grave. 'and not see death' is a pretty big statement! So where is he?

(He has to be in Heaven, he was pleasing to God! And you know how much He loves all of us, and how many of us can say that God says we are pleasing to Him?)

 

[Edward]

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Knowing what I know of the character of God it's entirely reasonable to presume that God took Enoch to be with Him. He didn't Translate Enoch to just drop him off at 7-11, Lol.

I don't know the whats whys and wheres of Enoch being taken in the flesh, and yet no flesh can enter Heaven. But with His ways and thughts so far above ours, it's probably no big deal for God to do something to correct that little situation, we just might not know what it is yet.

Mark 12:27
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly [h]mistaken.”.../

Why would God Translate Enoch and take Him for Himself to make him go to a grave, or to wander the earth without dying? To not see death...but what other reason could make sense besides to be with the Lord?

 

[for_his_glory]

Apparently God did not feel the need to expose where he was taken to, just like Elijah. I don't believe Jesus would have made that statement in John 3:13 if some people are already in heaven and second of all flesh and blood can not enter into heaven as even the flesh of Jesus had to be glorified before He ascended up to heaven, even though He committed no sin.

Just because scripture does not say where God translated him to, it does say that no one could find him as I can only assume the angry mob would try to find him and kill him. To me that means God only took him out of where he was preaching because of those who probably wanted him dead would have laid hands on him.

Also Elijah that he was caught up in a whirlwind and God translated him to another place beyond the horizon as how could he write a letter from heaven several years later and have King Jehoram receive this letter.

Just because we do not know where some of the Prophets were buried doesn't mean they are not laying in a grave somewhere. To not see death in my understanding is that God did not want to see him being put to death by those he was preaching to about their evil ways.

I'm not saying I am right by any means, but I can not get past John 3:13.

 

[Edward]

Apparently God did not feel the need to expose where he was taken to, just like Elijah. I don't believe Jesus would have made that statement in John 3:13 if some people are already in heaven and second of all flesh and blood can not enter into heaven as even the flesh of Jesus had to be glorified before He ascended up to heaven, even though He committed no sin.

Ascended, or was taken?, because I think we're talking about two different things there. Jesus ascended but Enoch was taken. You could say the same for Elijah, I mean, they sent a Chariot of Fire to pick Him up!

Now that we're talking about it, it stirs my memory, and I can remember watching a tesimony from a guy who was taken up9in spirit, in body? I don't know), but he was taken to the third Heaven and he wasn't saved yet if I remember right and he said something about he was purified so that he could be there.
And another time I seen a testimony of a woman who was taken up to visit, and she was given a piece of fruit off of a close tree and the angel told her eat this so you will not be hurt when Jesus comes here with His glory...So just because flesh and blood can not even enter Heaven would not mean that...you can't be taken up if the Lord wants you to be! (Is anything too hard for him?!)


Perhaps there were some who did want to see Enoch dead? So what? This wasn't a rescue operation, it was much more than that!
Which makes more sense?
Pharohs heart was heartened and so he pursued Enoch to kill him...
OR:
And Enoch was Pleasing to God, so He took Him...

I may not have all the answers, but I know my God. Enoch was pleasing to God, so God took him, and killed him so the enemy wouldn't have the satisfaction...?

Um, no. I'm sorry, I don't buy that.

So that he should not see death. Sort of comes right to the point.

 

[for_his_glory]

I may not have all the answers, but I know my God. Enoch was pleasing to God, so God took him, and killed him so the enemy wouldn't have the satisfaction...?

Um, no. I'm sorry, I don't buy that.

I never said that God took him and killed him. I said those he was speaking were no doubt angry with him and probably wanted to kill him. I believe God took him to a safer place to spare his life.

Just because a majority rule traditional teaching believes something to be true doesn't always mean it is true. I have no absolutes on this, but only giving my views and seeking the views of others. When scripture is silent on something then I try to search out the history, but even then you have to sort through so much and come to your own conclusions.

I'm not sure if their are any rights or wrongs with any of this. Hoping that someone will bring a better light to my understanding is all and I appreciate your participation.

 

[Mister E]

Have you ever considered these stories in terms of what we would today call- "a near death experience?"

Paul relates an experience in similar fashion. Was 'the man' he spoke about having been "raptured" dead or alive? Was he alive and then dead and then alive again? Or in what manner was he raptured into paradise only to return. What goes up, must come down. Spinning Wheel, has to go round.

Scripture says- What comes down, must go up.

I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago–whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows–such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man–whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows– was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses. For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me. (2 Cor 12)

 

[Edward]

I think that God is so good to His people that it's hard to believe that Enoch and Elijah are not with the Lord. Serving the Lord from the spiritual side. They're prolly both some sort of elders to be sure.

I put a lot of stock in testimonies that I hear and see. Especially the ones that the Lord quickened my spirit while I was watching it to confirm the truth of it. If you listen to lots of testimonies, you can kind of sort of paint a bigger picture of the Kingdom of God.

But I do remember what He said, that we can't even comprehend how Heaven will be. So I'm prolly wrong anyway lol.

 

[Edward]

Have you ever considered these stories in terms of what we would today call- "a near death experience?"

I listen to near death experiences. But it's always stated that I laid there and died, and then then this happened.

Those are not the testimonies I was talking about. The ones where, I was praying, I was driving, I was sleeping...and this happened, I was taken up and shown things. So they're distinctly different.

 

[Mister E]

I listen to near death experiences. But it's always stated that I laid there and died, and then then this happened.

Those are not the testimonies I was talking about. The ones where, I was praying, I was driving, I was sleeping...and this happened, I was taken up and shown things. So they're distinctly different.

Perhaps you are dismissive of it, but the story of Enoch or Elijah, or Paul's could be just such one of these stories.

Have you read, the book of Enoch-- or the account of his life as recorded in the book of Jasher? (ch 3)

 

[Edward]

Perhaps you are dismissive of it, but the story of Enoch or Elijah, or Paul's could be just such one of these stories.

Have you read, the book of Enoch-- or the account of his life as recorded in the book of Jasher? (ch 3)

Then why didn't they say that they died? It is written, Enoch was. Was is alive. It doesn't say Enoch died! Or any of them you mentioned. Lol. So either they say I was dead or they don't. It goes both ways as if, they are different typrs of encounters. Not any preference given by me, it's just what they say in their testimony.

Close encounters of the Spiritual kind happen to those both near death and those who are living and healthy.

 

[Edward]

I have the book of Enoch. I've read Jasher. Enoch was a scribe. The fallen angels hired him to be their lawyer before God, about them disobeying and being intimate with our human women.

 

[for_his_glory]

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

vs. 1 is speaking about the tabernacle of God that is within us as we are the Temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17, and when we physically die we will have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem
vs. 2 we desire to be in our new home, the New Jerusalem, that will be ushered down from heaven at the end of days, Rev 21
vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10
vs. 4 We are the Temple of God, but yet we do have burdens as we still live in this fleshly body waiting for immortality when Christ returns, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
vs. 5 basic as we have Gods Spirit dwelling in us as we need to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, Galatians 5:16, 17
vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17
vs. 7 we walk by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we seek those things from above and not the things of this world, Colossians 3:1-4
vs. 8 we are confident if we are walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) we are no longer following the lust of the flesh, 1 John 2:16

Absent from the body and present with the Lord means that we are no longer in the flesh, but now walking in the Spirit having fellowship with God while still being here on earth.

I can't speak about those who have testimony's about these visions or near death out of body experiences being taken up to the third heaven and then coming back down to earth as these could possibly be illusions of the mind within a semi-unconscienced state, kind of like a dream, but I'm no expert. There have been times when I was caught up in the Spirit and heard either the Holy Spirit or Jesus speak to me while yet with my body being right here on earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

Perhaps you are dismissive of it, but the story of Enoch or Elijah, or Paul's could be just such one of these stories.

Have you read, the book of Enoch-- or the account of his life as recorded in the book of Jasher? (ch 3)

I have read the book of Enoch and it has some weird stuff in it that he said he was shown.

 

[Edward]

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,

So it would be a small thing for the Lord to have a "change of clothes" for Enoch and Elijah. So they can enter and not be naked.

 

[Edward]

vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10

Enoch was already clothed in the righteousness of God or else God wouldn't have been pleased and took him.

 

[Edward]

vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17

So in other words, Enoch was in need of another temporary dwelling for he went to be with God.

 

[for_his_glory]

I see God's hand in the writing of the book of Enoch as what he writes in Chapter 1 -36 are visions he is given. All things of the heaven and earth correlate that of all of us as we need to be in obedience to God's commands. The watchers are the angels of God, but some have fallen like Samyaza and many more that Enoch names. It's like fallen men that will perish. As I read the book of Enoch I see Genesis through Revelation written even before the flood of Noah's day.

Chapter 1-11 Enoch speaks of the order of days, time, latter days and end of days when all things of the earth will perish as God's judgment consumes the wicked. Enoch is shown heaven, the throne of Christ when He comes in all His glory to sit upon His throne to judge the nations. Impiety of fallen angels and the flood that will come upon the earth.

Chapter 12-16 Enoch was concealed as no one knew where he was taken to, but he was in this day caught up to in the whirlwind being engaged with the holy ones and the Watchers (angels). The Watchers called Enoch a scribe as the Lord said he was a scribe of righteousness and then sent him out to reprove the angels who corrupted themselves.

Chapter 17-19 Enoch is taken to the place of the abyss where these angels who left their first estate were now bound for judgment.

Chapter 20- 21 Enoch is given the names of the true Watchers and what they do. He is then taken to another terrific place of suffering which is the abyss/prison of the fallen angels.

Chapter 22-23 Enoch is taken to another place that is delightful where the spirits, the souls of the dead will be collected unto the day of judgment. Enoch inquired of the general judgment and why one is separated from the other as he learned one was for sinners and the other for the righteous. Then he was taken to another place towards the west and sees a blazing fire burning which is the course of the sun that never changes.

Chapter 24 Enoch is taken to another place which is the kingdom of God and the reward for the righteous.

Chapter 25-26 Enoch sees a blessed land. lofty trees and the accursed valley between them. He ask the angel with him what it all meant and the angel told him the valley is the accursed of the accursed for ever being those who speak evil of the Lord.

Chapter 27-35 Enoch was transformed to many beautiful places God wanted to show him. I blessed the Lord of glory, who had made those great and splendid signs, that they might display the magnificence of his works to angels and to the souls of men; and that these might glorify all his works and operations; might see the effect of his power; might glorify the great labour of his hands; and bless him for ever.

Chapter 37 starts a second vision of wisdom. The seven spirts of God are the Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge and fear of the Lord.

Chapter 38 is given three parables.

Chapter 39-44 Enoch speaks of his translation placing him at the extremity of the heavens, (plural) as he is given another vision of the holy and elect of God and where they will be and what happens to the unjust.

Chapter 45-50 is the second parable about those who deny the habitation of the holy ones, and of the Lord of spirits. He also writes of the Ancient of Days and judgment.

Chapter 51-55 Enoch is once again caught up in a whirlwind carried off westwards and shown the secrets of heaven by the angel that went with him. This is also the end of the second parable he was given.

Chapter 56-63 begins the third parable concerning the saints and the elect.

Chapter 64-69 Enoch introduces us to Noah being the great grandson of Enoch as he at an early age senses the evil that is in the world and asked his great grandfather Enoch about the destruction of the world. The word of God comes to Noah to assure him he is beloved and upright in the eyes of the Lord and that God will establish his seed for ever and ever. Noah began to grow in knowledge and wisdom of the secret things that Enoch wrote in his book. Noah was given the names of the fallen angels and the judgments against them.

Chapter 70 Noah was in the spirit and was shown the holy angels of God and every secret of mercy and secret of righteousness. Noah was shown the hidden things of the extremities of heaven and kept secret the hidden things of the spirit of Enoch. The Ancient of Days came to Noah and spoke through the angel saying, Thou art the offspring of man, who art born for righteousness, and righteousness has rested on thee. The righteousness of the Ancient of days shall not forsake thee.

Chapter 71-78 Noah is shown an effective way of tracking the counting of days and seasons through the law of God set forth in creation. Noah explains this to Enoch's son Methuselah and then goes on to explain how the days of sinners the years shall be shortened and punishment will come upon all of the sinners as they will be destroyed.

Chapter 80-83 Enoch was given all to write as now his great grandson Noah has been instructed to read it all and explain all that was written in the book to Enoch's son Methuselah, but first Noah was told to rest for a year after he was brought back to his home.

Chapter 84-88 Enoch has a visionary dream before he married Edna and explained it to his son. In his dream he sees a white cow come forth from the earth. He sees two more heifers as one was black and the other one red. He then goes into greater detail of the visions he saw.

Chapter 90-104 Enoch tells his son Methuselah to call his brethren to him and all the children of his mother as a voice calls Enoch and the spirit is poured out on him as he shows them everything which will happen to them for ever. Enoch begins by telling them to be attached to integrity and walk in it as he proceeds to give Godly instruction to all of them.

Chapter 105 ends the vision of Enoch the prophet with the last one being that of Noah and the flood to come upon the earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

So it would be a small thing for the Lord to have a "change of clothes" for Enoch and Elijah. So they can enter and not be naked.

That's not what that verse is talking about. It's talking about being clothed in God's righteousness so we will not be found naked, meaning not having His righteousness found in us. It's like that of 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 as we have to receive new glorified bodies in order to enter the New Jerusalem.

 

[for_his_glory]

So in other words, Enoch was in need of another temporary dwelling for he went to be with God.

This is the whole point of this thread is that Enoch was not taken up to the third heaven to be with God. If he or anyone else were then that would make Jesus a liar in John 3:13.