episcopalians and female pastors

[peace4all]

So whats the problem with havign a female pastor? I am confused here.

This to me just seems liek downright sexism. Can anyone explain this in a way that doesn't make women seem inferior? or, is that how the world is supposed to be?

 

[Khristeeanos]

So whats the problem with havign a female pastor? I am confused here.

This to me just seems liek downright sexism. Can anyone explain this in a way that doesn't make women seem inferior? or, is that how the world is supposed to be?

It comes from the Bible.

But before you say that the Bible is sexist or anything, consider the role that women had in the world 2,000 years ago.

Then consider that the very first people to see Christ alive after the resurrection was females. Jesus spoke often with women and even with Samaratian women, which shows His great love and compassion for them and His elevation of women to equal with a man.

And also consider Paul's testimony that there is neither male nor female in Christ but all are one.

 

[SputnikBoy]

So whats the problem with havign a female pastor? I am confused here.

This to me just seems liek downright sexism. Can anyone explain this in a way that doesn't make women seem inferior? or, is that how the world is supposed to be?

It comes from the Bible.

But before you say that the Bible is sexist or anything, consider the role that women had in the world 2,000 years ago.

Then consider that the very first people to see Christ alive after the resurrection was females. Jesus spoke often with women and even with Samaratian women, which shows His great love and compassion for them and His elevation of women to equal with a man.

And also consider Paul's testimony that there is neither male nor female in Christ but all are one.

But is is not also BECAUSE of Paul that women cannot be ordained today as pastors?

 

[Skipdawg]

Well first you need to look at the word used there pastor. Are you referring to paster as preacher and teacher or Pastor as in Elder or Shepherd?

The Bible clearly in many places points to men as the leaders in the family and the church. But there are many instances of women ministering to others even to Jesus. Women can preach and teach. But men are to be in the place of Elder and Deacon.

I've been in Evangelism for over 20 years and my Mother still ministers to me. :wink:

 

[Agarash]

i dont see the problem with female pastors, and where in the bible does it say that woman cant be preachers?

 

[bibleberean]

i dont see the problem with female pastors, and where in the bible does it say that woman cant be preachers?

Women can share the gospel but they cannot be Pastors.

1 Timothy 2:11-14 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

There are qualifications that a person must meet to be a pastor.

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Titus 1:6-7 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

There is an order in marriage and an order in the church which is to be the "bride of Christ".

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Women can share the gospel and point to the word but in the assemblies when the chruch comes together women must acknowledge that it is for men to be Pastors(bishops elders).

Women have many roles in the church.


Titus 2:3-5 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

 

[bibleberean]

But is is not also BECAUSE of Paul that women cannot be ordained today as pastors?

No, it is because of Christ. Spiritual people acknowledge that Paul is writing under the inspiration of God.

1 Corinthians 14:37-38 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[peace4all]

Bah.. sexism isn't cool at all, regardless of why.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Bah.. sexism isn't cool at all, regardless of why.

It isn't sexist to say that men and women have different roles to fulfill any more than saying it is sexist that men are stronger than women (generally).

 

[peace4all]

no, but denying a woman a job she would be 100% capable of doing, solely because she is a woman, is sexist.

It is one thing to deny a 100 pound woman from being a construction worker, that requires heavy lifting, but a pastor? A woman can speak the words of the bible just as easily and learly as a man could.

 

[SputnikBoy]

But is is not also BECAUSE of Paul that women cannot be ordained today as pastors?

No, it is because of Christ. Spiritual people acknowledge that Paul is writing under the inspiration of God.

The response I gave - REGARDLESS of the fact that Paul is writing under the inspiration of God - was pertaining to the comment by Bonsai, which was: "And also consider Paul's testimony that there is neither male nor female in Christ but all are one." Bonsai quoted Paul and I also made reference to Paul in a similar manner. It had nothing to do with whether or not I happen to be 'spiritual' in your eyes.

 

[bibleberean]

It is one thing to deny a 100 pound woman from being a construction worker, that requires heavy lifting, but a pastor? A woman can speak the words of the bible just as easily and learly as a man could.

A woman can speak the words of the bible.

The bible says that women are not to be pastors.

An obedient Christian woman can read.

The bible speaks to the churches of God and warns us about being seduced by the philosophy of the world.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Why would an atheist who according to the bible is a "fool" be concerned with what happens in the church of God?

 

[peace4all]

Because it happens on american soil. I care about everyones civil liberties, and everyones rights, REGARDLESS of what religion they are.

It brings up a very good point that can't ever really be solved

Sexism is illegal in the united states *although it still occurs*

and not allowing people to practice their religion peacfully is also illegal.

Now, why can someone peacfully practice a religion that promotes sexism?

Which law is the bigger and the better law?

 

[Solo]

Because it happens on american soil. I care about everyones civil liberties, and everyones rights, REGARDLESS of what religion they are.

It brings up a very good point that can't ever really be solved

Sexism is illegal in the united states *although it still occurs*

and not allowing people to practice their religion peacfully is also illegal.

Now, why can someone peacfully practice a religion that promotes sexism?

Which law is the bigger and the better law?

You would not be allowed to be a pastor in those churches that follow the Biblical guidelines for pastors, so your opinion that churches are sexist that do not allow women pastors is erroneous.

 

[bibleberean]

Because it happens on american soil. I care about everyones civil liberties, and everyones rights, REGARDLESS of what religion they are.

It brings up a very good point that can't ever really be solved

Sexism is illegal in the united states *although it still occurs*

and not allowing people to practice their religion peacfully is also illegal.

Now, why can someone peacfully practice a religion that promotes sexism?

Which law is the bigger and the better law?

God's law is the best.

You want to have separation of church and state when it comes to acknowledging God in government but you want the state to interfere with the church... 8-)

I see how it is...

 

[peace4all]

Because it happens on american soil. I care about everyones civil liberties, and everyones rights, REGARDLESS of what religion they are.

It brings up a very good point that can't ever really be solved

Sexism is illegal in the united states *although it still occurs*

and not allowing people to practice their religion peacfully is also illegal.

Now, why can someone peacfully practice a religion that promotes sexism?

Which law is the bigger and the better law?

You would not be allowed to be a pastor in those churches that follow the Biblical guidelines for pastors, so your opinion that churches are sexist that do not allow women pastors is erroneous.

Because I do not wish to follow the path of a pastor.
However, If i devoted myself to christ, and then, wished to become a pastor, I would most likely, if i truly cared enough about it, Be able to accomplish that goal.

I am not allowed to due to choices I have made

Please let me see how a woman has the choice not to grow the male anatomy.

BB: I do believe you are partially correct. It is hypocritical of me to try to have a government where god is taken out, yet then use that same fgovernment to govern which it removes.

However, It is my belief that if you are in America, you should respect the laws set forth by the government, and then, use your freedoms around some of those laws. I believe that groups like the KKK and Neo-Nazi organizations, should be outlawed as terrorist organizations, And only if they were to make their group, a non hate, or discriminatory group, then it shoudl be accepted.

 

[bibleberean]

You are entitled to your opinion but your opinion is not a church issue.

 

[Lewis]

God has always used women to spread his Holy Word.

 

[Agarash]

thanks bibleberean...

but i get pretty upset, because christianity does not discriminate, and by having this view (the view of the catholic church????) and by believing that woman should not teach the Word of God, you are doing exactly that...discriminating. This is not christianity, christianity is about equality betweeen jew and gentiles, male and females (Galatians 3:28) This discrimination was NOT PAULS intention, as i will attemt to explain below.

(P.S - whats your opinion on all the woman in todays life who teach the Word of God??)

we have to be carefull not to take these verses out of context, if we look at the greater theme of pauls letters then it becomes clear that it NOT a message of womans submission to man, but rather a theme of equality within the church and their lives, see Galatians 3:28 ; 1 Corinthians 12:13 and Colossians 3:11. These verses point out the equality between man and woman. but why then these verses of submission and silence and no teaching and not becoming pastors?? simple... they were written for specific churches, in specific times, when because of specific issues caused Paul to write what he did.

example: theres a small town in america where all the men are drunkards and alcoholics and cause alot of problems in that towns daily living, so someone with influence over them or whom they all respect writes them a letter to them stating that ALL MEN must not touch alcohol and stay away from BARS and CLUBS and late night partyting. is it correct to assume that ALL THE WORLDS MEN must now stay away from alcohol and partying? no!! because it was written for a specific town, specific men. ok?

if we look at these verses we will almost always see that that passage was aimed at woman IN THAT SPECIFIC CHURCH who were causing disturbances or some problems. So Paul goes and writes to THIS SPECIFIC CHURCH that the role of women IN THAT SPECIFIC CHURCH be the role of learners, who must be quiet and submissive.

I havent checked all the verses but i bet ya most of them are the same. what must we do then? can we now disregard the entire bible becuase it wasnt written for us but for other specific churches? no!!!! we must UNDERSTAND the contect in which those texts was written, and then apply it to our daily living.

so my personal opinion on this is: If woman arent causing disturbances or problems in your church allow them to PREACH. pretty basic isnt it, but i think that was pauls intention, there was a problem, and the best way to solve it was to tell the woman to not be preachers.


p.s - i am only talking about the 'woman-be-preachers' issue, i do not disagree about the role of woman and man in a family point of view, and an marriage relationship. I was ONLY talking about the woman-pastor issue.

 

[Solo]

Where in scripture are women shown to be pastors of the local Church, and who was the very first woman pastor ordained according to the New Testament guidelines?