Eternal Security of the Born Again Believer is Truth

[Solo]

This thread is an apologetic thread giving Scriptural evidences and teachings showing the truth that a born again, born from above, born of God individual has been guaranteed eternal life through the works of Jesus Christ. This is not a debate thread, but merely a thread of teachings based on what the Scriptures reveal concerning ones eternal security.

This thread is open for all to read, and for those who believe in eternal security of the believer to comment on how God has confirmed to them that God's Salvation is eternal, and cannot be lost. All members who hold to the belief that one can lose one's salvation are asked to begin an apologetic thread giving Scriptural evidences and teachings concerning this belief instead of debating it on this thread.

Please do not post, "you can lose your salvation" posts in this thread. Thank you.

This thread is in the Apologetic AND Theology forum as it is both; a thread of teaching and proving the truth of eternal security, and theological in the study of this doctrine. This thread is not a thread for constant deluge of debate concerning eternal theology, but is a thread of teaching what the Scriptures reveal about a believer's salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ for assurance. The definition of apologetics follows:

• a·pol·o·get·ics (É™-pÃ…Âl'É™-jÄ›t'Ä­ks) Pronunciation Key
  n. (used with a sing. verb)
  
  1. The branch of theology that is concerned with defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines.
  2. Formal argumentation in defense of something, such as a position or system.

Members who would like to teach that one can lose their salvation can start a thread in the same manner. The removal of posts will be requested that are not inline with the purpose of this thread, and engenders strife and/or conflict.

Thank you,
Solo

 

[Good News Brown]

Re: Eternal Security - True or False

1 Samuel: 28:19
Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hands of the Philistines: and tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.

This could even be a bit controversial with even those who believe in eternal security. As an example, I've heard one use the viewpoint that Saul was never saved. That Saul's prophesying was akin to Baalam's spiritual insight. However, there are those who would contend that he was saved at one point, and then eventually lost his salvation. My personal thought is that we (or many) have a tendency to read the Bible in the same way one may read a novel which has established heroes and villains. King David, although sinned, by virtue of how we read his life account, have placed him into the hero/good guy role. Saul, by the same method has been placed into the villain/bad guy role. Therefore, by grand design of the story plot as we read it, Saul shouldn't or couldn't be saved. However, I would have to question how far off do we really think we all are from King Saul (sins of pride, etc.). I also wonder how King Solomon would be perceived if the only thing written about him was in 1 Kings.

Whether one sees Saul as being at least one time saved or not, I don't see any other concrete avenue than to read this as exactly as it's written and tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me. I think one has to stretch things to imply differently. The most common viewpoint among those who reject the idea of Saul being saved, is that it was not really the Spirit of Solomon at all in light of the fact that Saul prior had been tormented by an evil spirit. Even perhaps more of a stretch IMO, was a comment made that Saul would only be with him (Samuel) in the same sense as the rich man in Hell who could somehow see Abraham and Lazarus from the other side of the Gulf. Either way, in my opinion, these are only assumptions made to support the viewpoint that Saul was not saved.

 

[Solo]

First, let us ask the question, What is "Eternal Security"?

Eternal Security is the term used to describe the state of an individual who has been "saved"?

Which leads to the question, "saved" from what?

An individual is "saved" from condemnation or judgment.

How is one "condemned"?

An individual is condemned when they are born into physical existence at the point one becomes a living human.

Let us look at what Jesus Christ reveals about salvation, and one is to see and enter the kingdom of God. We will turn to the Gospel according to John, chapter 3.

Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews came to Jesus and states that he knows Jesus to be a teacher from God because of the works that Jesus does. Nicodemus states that no man could do the miracles that Jesus does except that God be with Him. Jesus then reveals to Nicodemus that an individual cannot even see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

What is being born again mean? The Greek words γεννηθη (gennÄ“thÄ“) and ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) are translated into the English King James Version as "born again."

The Greek word γεννηθη (gennēthē) is defined as follows:

γεννηθη (gennēthē) ~verb

• bear [/*:m:xn7nznji]
• beget [/*:m:xn7nznji]
• conceive[/*:m:xn7nznji]

The Greek word ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) is defined as follows:

ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) ~adverb

• from above [/*:m:xn7nznji]
• again [/*:m:xn7nznji]
• from the beginning [/*:m:xn7nznji]
• the top[/*:m:xn7nznji]

The Greek word ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) is used 13 times in the New Testament.

Matthew 27:51

• καὶ ἰδοὺ Äὸ καÄαÀέÄαÃμα Äοῦ ναοῦ á¼ÂÃÇίÃθη ἀÀ' ἄνÉθεν ἕÉ κάÄÉ εἰ δÃÂο καὶ ἡ γῆ á¼ÂÃείÃθη καὶ αἱ ÀέÄÃÂαι á¼ÂÃÇίÃθηÃαν,
  
  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mark 15:38

• καὶ Äὸ καÄαÀέÄαÃμα Äοῦ ναοῦ á¼ÂÃÇίÃθη εἰ δÃÂο ἀÀ' ἄνÉθεν ἕÉ κάÄÉ.
  
  And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Luke 1:3

• á¼â€ÃŽÂ´ÃŽÂ¿ÃŽÂ¾ÃŽÂµÃŽÂ½ / á¼â€ÃŽÂ´ÃŽÂ¿ÃŽÂ¾ÃŽÂµ κἀμοὶ ÀαÃÂηκολοÃ…θηκÃ΀ι ἄνÉθεν ÀᾶÃιν ἀκÃÂιβῶ καθεξῆ Ãοι γÃÂάÈαι, κÃÂάÄιÃĀε ΘεÃŒÆιλε,
  
  It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

John 3:3

• ἀÀεκÃÂίθη ἸηÃοῦ καὶ εἶÀεν αá½ÂÄῷ• ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγÉ Ãοι, á¼Âὰν μή Ã„ι γεννηθῇ ἄνÉθεν, οὠδÃÂναÄαι ἰδεῖν Äὴν βαÃιλείαν Äοῦ θεοῦ.
  
  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:7

• μὴ θαÃ…μάÃῃ ὅÄι εἶÀÌν Ãοι• δεῖ ὑμᾶ γεννηθῆναι ἄνÉθεν.
  
  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:31

• ὠἄνÉθεν á¼ÂÃÂÇÌμενο á¼ÂÀάνÉ ÀάνÄÉν á¼ÂÃĀίν• ὠὢν á¼Âκ Äῆ γῆ á¼Âκ Äῆ γῆ á¼ÂÃĀιν καὶ á¼Âκ Äῆ γῆ λαλεῖ. á½ á¼Âκ Äοῦ οá½ÂÃÂανοῦ á¼ÂÃÂÇÌμενο á¼ÂÀάνÉ ÀάνÄÉν á¼ÂÃĀίν•
  
  He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

John 19:11

• ἀÀεκÃÂίθη αá½ÂÄῷ ἸηÃοῦ• οá½Âκ εἶÇε á¼ÂξοÅÃίαν καÄ' á¼Âμοῦ οá½Âδεμίαν εἰ μὴ ἦν δεδομένον Ãοι ἄνÉθεν• διὰ ÄοῦÄο ὠÀαÃÂαδοàμέ ÃƒÎ¿Î¹ μείζονα á¼ÂμαÃÂÄίαν á¼â€Ã‡ÎµÎ¹.
  
  Jesus answered, "You would have no power at all against me, unless it were given to you from above. Therefore he who delivered me to you has greater sin."

John 19:23

• Οἱ οὖν ÃĀÃÂαÄιῶÄαι, ὅÄε á¼ÂÃĀαÃÂÃÂÉÃαν Äὸν ἸηÃοῦν, á¼â€ÃŽÂ»ÃŽÂ±ÃŽÂ²ÃŽÂ¿ÃŽÂ½ Äὰ ἱμάÄια αá½ÂÄοῦ καὶ á¼ÂÀοίηÃαν ÄέÃÃαÃÂα μέÃÂη, ἑκάÃĀῳ ÃĀÃÂαÄιÎÄῃ μέÃÂοÂ, καὶ Äὸν ÇιÄῶνα. ἦν δὲ ὠÇιÄὼν ἄÃÂαÆο á¼Âκ Äῶν ἄνÉθεν ὑÆανÄὸ δι' ὅλοÃ….
  
  Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also the coat. Now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.

Acts 26:5

• ÀÃÂογινÎÃκονÄέ με ἄνÉθεν á¼Âὰν θέλÉÃιν / θέλÉÃι μαÃÂÄÅÃÂεῖν ὅÄι καÄὰ Äὴν ἀκÃÂιβεÃĀάÄην αἵÃÂεÃιν Äῆ ἡμεÄέÃÂα θÃÂηÃκεία á¼â€ÃŽÂ¶ÃŽÂ·ÃƒÎ± ΦαÃÂιÃαῖοÂ.
  
  having known me from the first, if they are willing to testify, that after the strictest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.

Galatians 4:9

• νῦν δὲ γνÌνÄε θεÌν, μᾶλλον δὲ γνÉÃθένÄε ὑÀὸ θεοῦ, Àῶ á¼ÂÀιÃĀÃÂέÆεÄε Àάλιν á¼ÂÀὶ Äὰ ἀÃθενῆ καὶ ÀÄÉÇὰ ÃĀοιÇεῖα οἷ Àάλιν ἄνÉθεν δοÃ…λεῦÃαι / δοÃ…λεÃÂειν θέλεÄε;
  
  But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, why do you turn back again to the weak and miserable elemental principles, to which you desire to be in bondage all over again?

James 1:17

• ÀᾶÃα δÃŒÃι ἀγαθὴ καὶ Àᾶν δÃŽÃÂημα Äέλειον ἄνÉθεν á¼ÂÃĀιν καÄαβαῖνον ἀÀὸ Äοῦ ÀαÄÃÂὸ Äῶν ÆÎÄÉν ÀαÃÂ' ᾧ οá½Âκ á¼â€ÃŽÂ½ÃŽÂ¹ ÀαÃÂαλλαγὴ á¼¢ ÄÃÂοÀῆ ἀÀοÃκίαÃμα.
  
  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, nor turning shadow.

James 3:15

• οá½Âκ á¼â€ÃĀιν αὕÄη ἡ ÃοÆία ἄνÉθεν καÄεÃÂÇομένη ἀλλὰ á¼ÂÀίγειοÂ, ÈÅÇική, δαιμονιÎδηÂ.
  
  This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, sensual, and demonic.

James 3:17

• ἡ δὲ ἄνÉθεν ÃοÆία ÀÃÂῶÄον μὲν á¼Âγνή á¼ÂÃĀιν, á¼â€Ã€ÎµÎ¹Ã„α εἰÃÂηνική, á¼ÂÀιεικήÂ, εá½ÂÀειθήÂ, μεÃÄὴ á¼ÂλέοÅ καὶ καÃÂÀῶν ἀγαθῶν, ἀδιάκÃÂιÄοÂ, ἀνÅÀÌκÃÂιÄοÂ.
  
  But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceful, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Therefore, the revelation that Jesus Christ gives us in John 3 is that in order to see and enter the kingdom of God, one must be born, beget, or conceived from above, again, from the beginning, from the top.

Nicodemus is confused, and asks Jesus how one is to be born again, and Jesus replies to him that one must be born of water, the physical birth; and born of the Spirit, the spiritual birth. Jesus emphasizes this truth by stating it again in plain language that that which is born of the flesh is flesh), and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So now we must understand that just as one is born in flesh is forever in the flesh, and will forever be in existence. Those who die in the flesh without being born of the Spirit, will forever be in the flesh in the physical realm and in the spiritual realm; and they will never see or enter the kingdom of God.

Those who die in the flesh after having been born of the flesh and born of the Spirit await the moment of their resurrection into a "changed," "glorified," resurrected body. Jesus teaches Nicodemus, and all those who are able to read and/or hear his words in the Word of God that all those who are born of the flesh and born of the Spirit are not condemned; however, all of those who have been born of the flesh, and are not born of the Spirit remained condemned. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, but he came into the world so that the world could be saved. Those who are quickened by the Holy Spirit to hear and believe the Word of God are born again when they come to the light which is the LORD Jesus Christ; however, those who are quickened by the Holy Spirit to hear and believe the Word of God but reject it do so because they do not want to come to the light and give up their sin.

In summary, the LORD Jesus Christ came to the world, not to condemn the world, but to save it; and the manner in which He saved the world was to give himself to die on the cross to take the penalty of sin away from those who were guilty of sin. Those who come to the light are born again, and those who do not come to the light remain condemned. Jesus makes no revelation or statement in this portion of Scripture that those who come to the light by belief in His works could once again be condemned; only those who refuse to come to Him at the moment of the Holy Spirit's revelation to them of the Word of God are condemned.

All are condemned until they come to the light and believe, and once they do they are born again, and remain in Christ Jesus until the resurrection into eternal life with Him.

• 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, F7 he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. F8 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. F9 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 24 For John was not yet cast into prison. 25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. 26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. 27 John answered and said, A man can receive F10 nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
  
  F7: again: or, from above
  F8: again: or, from above
  F9: reproved: or, discovered
  F10: receive: or, take unto himself

 

[Solo]

if I may give a friendly suggestion, Mike, maybe you might move this thread to the "Bible study" forum? Your intent would be better served there, I believe. Such "devotional" threads are a better place to sell your wares unimpeded by those who disagree with you.

Sorry Joe,

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=32617

5. No debating doctrines or denominational differences. (E.G. TULIP, OSAS, Purgatory, Papacy etc)

That's why I suggested it - albeit without thinking - no one could argue with him. However, upon more reflection and promptings from a wise man, you are correct and Vic has offered a good alternative.

Mike, I will not interfere until Monday, you have the floor. Might I suggest you break down the "proofs" into smaller packets - perhaps we can find that we agree on parts of what you will soon be discussing and that way, we can at least find some things to agree on and confine future discussion to a more narrow focus? Otherwise, I see this thread exploding in every which way...

God bless.

Regards

Point 1 is that believers are born of the flesh, and afterward are born of the Spirit at the prompting of the Spirit, and apart from being born again, born from above, born of God one cannot see or enter the Kingdom of God.

Point 2 is that ALL are condemned already, and that God sent Jesus to "save" the world from this condemnation, not to condemn the world; therefore, all who come to the light are saved from this condemnation at the point of being born again, born from above, born of God. Those who reject coming to the light remain condemned.

The next point will be what occurs at the point of being born again, born from above; followed by what occurs after being born again, born from above.

Thank you.

Solo

 

[cyberjosh]

Hi Solo! Good to see you back.

1 Samuel: 28:19
Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hands of the Philistines: and tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.

This could even be a bit controversial with even those who believe in eternal security. As an example, I've heard one use the viewpoint that Saul was never saved. That Saul's prophesying was akin to Baalam's spiritual
insight. However, there are those who would contend that he was saved at one point, and then eventually lost his salvation. My personal thought is that we (or many) have a tendency to read the Bible in the same way one may read a novel which has established heroes and villains. King David, although sinned, by virtue of how we read his life account, have placed him into the hero/good guy role. Saul, by the same method has been placed into the villain/bad guy role. Therefore, by grand design of the story plot as we read it, Saul shouldn't or couldn't be saved. However, I would have to question how far off do we really think we all are from King Saul (sins of pride, etc.). I also wonder how King Solomon would be perceived if the only thing written about him was in 1 Kings.

It is funny you should mention this Scripture, as I was reading it last night. What struck me about it though is that Samuel first and foremost was predicting that Saul would come down to the grave where Samuel had also gone: in Sheol. Now Sheol at the time contained both the wicked and the righteous, and some view there to be a division (like Josephus wrote in his Discourse of Hades) in Sheol where the righteous go to a place in Sheol called "Abraham's Bosom" or "Paradise" while the wicked go to the other part of Sheol (perhaps what Jesus called "Gehenna").

My point simply is Samuel's prediction that Saul would come to Sheol (in death) the next day was quite true, but that it was a promise of death not a promise of life, which can be contrasted with Jesus' promise to the thief on the cross who told him explicitly where he was going (to Paradise), which was good news. And the circumstances and attitudes surrounding Saul and the thief couldn't be more different other than the common fate that they must meet physically: death. When I read that account last night the saying from Samuel indeed gave me pause, but when I thought about it I then saw the prediction for what it was in context: Saul would die in battle and descend into Sheol as all the dead do, particularly because of Saul's disobedience and God had departed from him (vs. 16, 18), and when Samuel said that they would be "with me" doesn't necessarily mean he would be placed with the righteous, but I think Samuel was making a general statement (and obviously by way of insinuation because he never explicitly says "you will die") that they would come down to Sheol. Either way, Saul didn't take the news too well: "Then Saul immediately fell full length upon the ground and was very afraid because of the words of Samuel; also there was no strength in him, for he had eaten no food all day and all night" (1 Samuel 28:20).

Samuel also spoke fairly harsh words to him that did not indicate God's favor on Saul, "Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has departed from you and has become your adversary?" (1 Samuel 28:16). When Yahweh has departed from you and you become His adversary you are in major trouble. In the very same book in 1 Samuel 2:10 it says, "The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken in pieces; From heaven He will thunder against them. The LORD will judge the ends of the earth. 'He will give strength to His king, And exalt the horn of His anointed.'" Now we see at the end also that God will exalt His anointed, and we then may think of how Saul was anointed as King (!) - so surely this shows God will save him... right? Yet what was the context and circumstances of Saul's situation? His kingship had already been revoked by God and rightfully given to David, God's newly anointed King. Samuel himself says this to Saul, "The LORD has done accordingly as He spoke through me; for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, to David. As you did not obey the LORD and did not execute His fierce wrath on Amalek, so the LORD has done this thing to you this day" (1 Samuel 28:17-18).

God tore the kingdom away from Him, rejected his Kinghood and anointed David as King: "But Samuel said to Saul, "I will not return with you; for you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel" (1 Samuel 15:26). At this point, in 1 Samuel 28, this becomes total rejection of Saul for his apostasy, epitomized by his consulting a medium of spirits, and Samuel tells it to him plain that there is no hope for him defeating the Philistines since God has departed from Him for his disobedience ("you did not obey the LORD" - vs. 18). The lesson is that being God's anointed comes with responsibility, and if a righteous man turns from His righteousness God will judge him and that person will surely perish ("All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die" - Ezekiel 18:24).

In summary I view the tale of Saul one of a tragic apostasy - and a warning to all people as well - that ended in his destruction. And I do not see Samuel's pronouncement that Saul and his sons would be "with him" tommorrow can be taken to construe any implication of salvation from his circumstances, but rather a general statement that he would die and go to Sheol as all the righteous and wicked do (Ecclesiastes 2:14, 6:6, 9:2).

Those are just my thoughts on how to properly interpret that passage in Scripture. I do appreciate your thoughts on that passage though, and would be interested to hear your response.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Saint_Iguanas]

First, let us ask the question, What is "Eternal Security"?

Eternal Security is the term used to describe the state of an individual who has been "saved"?

Which leads to the question, "saved" from what?

An individual is "saved" from condemnation or judgment.

How is one "condemned"?

An individual is condemned when they are born into physical existence at the point one becomes a living human.

Let us look at what Jesus Christ reveals about salvation, and one is to see and enter the kingdom of God. We will turn to the Gospel according to John, chapter 3.

Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews came to Jesus and states that he knows Jesus to be a teacher from God because of the works that Jesus does. Nicodemus states that no man could do the miracles that Jesus does except that God be with Him. Jesus then reveals to Nicodemus that an individual cannot even see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

What is being born again mean? The Greek words γεννηθη (gennÄ“thÄ“) and ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) are translated into the English King James Version as "born again."

The Greek word γεννηθη (gennēthē) is defined as follows:

γεννηθη (gennēthē) ~verb

• bear [/*:m:2cotir2r]
• beget [/*:m:2cotir2r]
• conceive[/*:m:2cotir2r]

The Greek word ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) is defined as follows:

ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) ~adverb

• from above [/*:m:2cotir2r]
• again [/*:m:2cotir2r]
• from the beginning [/*:m:2cotir2r]
• the top[/*:m:2cotir2r]

The Greek word ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) is used 13 times in the New Testament.

[...snipped for space considerations...]

F7: again: or, from above
F8: again: or, from above
F9: reproved: or, discovered
F10: receive: or, take unto himself[/list]

In addition, the question has to be asked, if one is to inherit eternal life, who is the causal agent who makes it an eternal reality, and not simply a potentiality?

If one is trusting in one's self in any way, shape or form, such as being good enough to first believe the gospel and then to not turn away, Jesus was clear in saying that with man it is impossible.

Ultimately the question is in whom is one trusting to be the final cause of salvation.

Hebrews is abundantly clear that Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

So, is one's soteriology anthropocentric or Theopocentric?

 

[Joe67]

Solo,

Remember the counsel of God through Paul to Timothy, "don't let anyone despise your youth."
Don't let the wisdom of man's words be a snare to you. May the word of the Lord be your wisdom in your work to present your belief.

1 Cor 1:21
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. KJV

Salvation come to us through hearing the Word of promise. Any teaching that gnashes against this is a wolf in Lamb's wool. Keep your thoughts simple and you will be stronger.

The Lion will choke off the wind. The bear will kill with his claw. The dogs will surround you and bite at you till you are exhausted. They will start tearing your flesh while you are still alive.

Your brother in the promise,
Joe

 

[turnorburn]

So many posts and nobody found this concerning life everlasting?

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

 

[MarkT]

Trying to take away another person's belief is never a good idea. It's the third rail of Christianity; touch it and you will die. What do we mean by, 'endure' to the end? Are we not enduring the constant pecking of the birds of the air trying to take away our belief? Of course it implies we keep what we have received to the end, and that includes the belief that some say we must not believe. Now I figure, OSAS is one such belief. And I don't see anything wrong with it. Jesus said, 'My Father who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand.' John 10:29 This teaching we will keep to the end.

To those who say salvation is conditional, I would say perhaps it's conditional on not believing you. I'm certain eternal life is in the Word of God.

 

[Joe67]

Solo,

I hope you are able to get one or more good posts in before Monday morning.

Your brother in God's choice,
Joe

 

[Solo]

Eternal Security of the Believer - Part 1 of 7

Introduction:

When a child of God becomes a child of God occurs at the point of one being born again, born from above. Jesus reveals that no one can see or enter the kingdom of God apart from being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit. When one is born again, it is initiated by God Almighty according to the Scriptures.

What occurs when one is born again? One is made alive at the point of hearing the Word of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ. This gospel reveals that one is lost and condemned as a sinner on their way to being eternally separated from God in an awful place of existence, but that Jesus Christ took the penalty of sin upon Himself so that those who might believe in Him might be saved.

(Note: The Gospel of Jesus Christ is that He died, was buried, and was resurrected from the dead so that all sinners who believe in Jesus’ death and resurrection from the dead would not be condemned but have everlasting life.)

In this small and brief study, a synopsis of a born again, born from above believer’s security is all held together by God Himself. God initiates the Salvation, God seals the Salvation, and God completes the Salvation of everyone who believes and is born again, born from above.

Three points will be discussed.

1. Point 1 is presented concerning a sinner’s transformation being lost and condemned to being born again and saved.
   
   [/*:m:2und9ete]
2. Point 2 is presented concerning that all are already condemned and will remain condemned until they believe and are born again.
   
   [/*:m:2und9ete]
3. Point 3 is presented concerning that Salvation is all God’s work, not man’s work. Point 3 is broken down into three sections:
   
   • Section A) Salvation is initiated through Jesus Christ by God Almighty.
     
     [/*:m:2und9ete]
   • Section B) Salvation is secured through the Holy Spirit by God Almighty.
     
     [/*:m:2und9ete]
   • Section C) Salvation is complete in Jesus Christ by God Almighty[/*:m:2und9ete]
   [/*:m:2und9ete][/list:o:2und9ete]
   Each one of these points and sections will be posted in a separate post, in subsequent fashion, so that one can prayerfully read each section, meditate upon the Scripture references given, and come to understand what is being said in the Word of God concerning each point before posting.
   
   May each one on this forum come to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior for the purpose of showing Jesus Christ’s righteousness, living one’s life not grieving the indwelling Holy Spirit, to ultimately bring glory to Almighty God the Father.

 

[Solo]

Eternal Security of the Believer - Part 2 of 7

Point 1:
Sinners must be Born Again in order to see or enter the Kingdom of God:

Let us look at what Jesus Christ reveals about salvation, and one is to see and enter the kingdom of God. We will turn to the Gospel according to John, chapter 3.

Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews came to Jesus and states that he knows Jesus to be a teacher from God because of the works that Jesus does. Nicodemus states that no man could do the miracles that Jesus does except that God be with Him. Jesus then reveals to Nicodemus that an individual cannot even see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

What is being born again mean?

The Greek words γεννηθη (gennÄ“thÄ“) and ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) are translated into the English King James Version as "born again."

The Greek word γεννηθη (gennēthē) is defined as follows:
γεννηθη (gennēthē) ~verb

• bear [/*:m:2g4aisgu]
• beget [/*:m:2g4aisgu]
• conceive[/*:m:2g4aisgu]

The Greek word ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) is defined as follows:
ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) ~adverb

• from above [/*:m:2g4aisgu]
• again [/*:m:2g4aisgu]
• from the beginning [/*:m:2g4aisgu]
• the top[/*:m:2g4aisgu]

The Greek word ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) is used 13 times in the New Testament. The 13 times that this Greek word is used, it is translated into English as “againâ€Â, “from aboveâ€Â, “the topââÂ, or “the very first (beginning)â€Â.

Therefore, the revelation that Jesus Christ gives us in John 3 is that in order to see and enter the kingdom of God, one must be born, beget, or conceived from above, again, from the beginning, from the top.

 

[Solo]

Eternal Security of the Believer - Part 3 of 7

Point 2:
Sinners who come to the Light are not Condemned, Sinners who reject coming to the Light are Condemned Already:

Nicodemus is confused, and asks Jesus how one is to be born again, and Jesus replies to him that one must be born of water, the physical birth; and born of the Spirit, the spiritual birth. Jesus emphasizes this truth by stating it again in plain language that that which is born of the flesh is flesh), and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So now we must understand that just as one is born in flesh is forever in the flesh, and will forever be in existence. Those who die in the flesh without being born of the Spirit will forever be in the flesh in the physical realm and in the spiritual realm; and they will never see or enter the kingdom of God.

Those who die in the flesh after having been born of the flesh and born of the Spirit await the moment of their resurrection into a "changed," "glorified," resurrected body. Jesus teaches Nicodemus, and all those who are able to read and/or hear his words in the Word of God that all those who are born of the flesh and born of the Spirit are not condemned; however, all of those who have been born of the flesh, and are not born of the Spirit remained condemned. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, but he came into the world so that the world could be saved.

Those who are quickened by the Holy Spirit to hear and believe the Word of God are born again when they come to the light which is the LORD Jesus Christ; however, those who are quickened by the Holy Spirit to hear and believe the Word of God but reject it do so because they do not want to come to the light and give up their sin.

The LORD Jesus Christ came to the world, not to condemn the world, but to save it; and the manner in which He saved the world was to give himself to die on the cross to take the penalty of sin away from those who were guilty of sin. Those who come to the light are born again, and those who do not come to the light remain condemned.

Jesus makes no revelation or statement in this portion of Scripture that those who come to the light by belief in His works could once again be condemned; only those who refuse to come to Him at the moment of the Holy Spirit's revelation to them of the Word of God are condemned.

All are condemned until they come to the light and believe, and once they do they are born again, and remain in Christ Jesus until the resurrection into eternal life with Him.

• 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
  
  3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, F7 he cannot see the kingdom of God.
  
  4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
  
  5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
  
  7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. F8 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
  
  9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
  
  14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
  
  17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. F9 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
  
  22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 24 For John was not yet cast into prison. 25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. 26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
  
  27 John answered and said, A man can receive F10 nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
  
  33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
  
  F7: again: or, from above
  F8: again: or, from above
  F9: reproved: or, discovered
  F10: receive: or, take unto himself

 

[Solo]

Eternal Security of the Believer - Part 4 of 7

Point 3A:
Salvation is Initiated, Secured, and Completed by God Almighty:

No one comes to be "saved" by one's own initiative; the entire process of being "saved" is initiated by God Almighty through the "work" of God Almighty. No one remains “saved†by one’s own security; the entire life of a believer is "sealed" by God Almighty. No one “completes†Salvation through their own works; the redemption of the believer is “completed†by God Almighty.

• A. Salvation Initiated by the work of God Almighty:
  
  All who believe are born again, born of God; and are given to Jesus Christ. All those whom God gives to Jesus Christ are born again, born of God believers who will be given eternal life, and Jesus Christ will not lose one single one.
  
  As stated in Point 2, all mankind is condemned already, and Jesus Christ did not come into the world to condemn the world, but to save it. Those who are “saved†are those who come to the light and believe the Word of God of the fact that Jesus Christ died on the cross instead of the sinners for whom death is required, and that He rose from the dead as believers will also.
  
  No one can come to Jesus Christ unless God the Father draws one to Him.
  
  [list:1f1176fl]44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

No one can do any works to gain access into the kingdom of God. Only God can do a work to give man life. How can a man do the works of God?

• 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:28-29

God’s work then is to send Jesus Christ to die on the cross and be resurrected so that those who believe in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus teaches a group of people who had followed Jesus and His disciples to the synagogue at Capernaum that He is the bread of life, and as God provided manna to the Israelites in the wilderness, so to was God providing the bread of life to those who would be “saved†from the condemnation. Note that Jesus is telling this crowd that ALL that the Father gives Him will come to Him, and those that come to Him will not be cast out (vs. 37). Jesus explains that He came down to do God’s will, and He states that the will of God is that all which the Father has given to Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ would “LOSE NOTHINGâ€Â, but would raise all that was given Him up again at the last day (vs. 39). Also the will of God the Father is that every one which sees the Son, and believes on Him, will have everlasting life, and Jesus Christ Himself will raise the believers up at the last day (vs. 40).

• 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:35-40

The crowd at the synagogue began to murmur about the teachings of Jesus. Jesus answered them. He said, “No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.†He also said that just as the prophets had written, they would all be taught of God, and every one that had heard, and learned of the Father, would come to Jesus.

Jesus then says, “Truly, positively (Verily, Verily), I say unto you, He that believes on me has everlasting life.†Jesus continued to use the analogy that He was the bread of life, and that any one that eats of that living bread that came down from heaven will live forever. He then explains the manner that this living bread would accomplish the task of saving the world from their sins; that being that he would give up his life in the flesh for the life of the world (vs. 51).

• 43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. John 6:43-51

Jesus continues to teach at the synagogue saying that whoever eats of His flesh and drinks of His blood will have eternal life; and except that they eat of His flesh and drink of His blood, they have no life in them (vs. 53). However those that eat of His flesh and drink of His blood have eternal life, and Jesus Christ will raise them up on the last day (vs. 54). Those that eat His flesh and drink His blood dwell in Him, and He dwells in them (vs. 55).

• 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. John 6:53-58

Jesus then recognized that some of the disciples were murmuring about the teachings of the flesh and blood eating and drinking being harsh. Jesus said to them, “It is the spirit that makes alive; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not; therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father†(Vs. 59-64). After Jesus spoke this to those disciples who had not believed, they left. Jesus then asked the twelve disciples, “Will you also go away?†Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom will we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we believe and are sure that you are the Christ, the Son of the living God.†(Vss. 66-69).

• 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. John 6:66-69

In summary, God initiates the Salvation of mankind, and gives to Jesus Christ those who believe and are born again, born from above. No one can come to Jesus Christ unless God the Father draws them. Those whom God draws to, and gives to Jesus Christ are in Christ, and Jesus Christ will not lose one single one of those whom God the Father gives Him. Only those who believe and are born again, born from above will be saved, and those that do not believe were never born again, born from above.[/list:u:1f1176fl]

 

[Solo]

Eternal Security of the Believer - Part 5 of 7

Point 3B:
Salvation is Initiated, Secured, and Completed by God Almighty:

No one comes to be "saved" by one's own initiative; the entire process of being "saved" is initiated by God Almighty through the "work" of God Almighty. No one remains “saved†by one’s own security; the entire life of a believer is "sealed" by God Almighty. No one “completes†Salvation through their own works; the redemption of the believer is “completed†by God Almighty.

• B. Salvation Sealed by God Almighty:
  
  In the previous section A of point 3 God’s initiation is crucial in mankind’s Salvation by drawing those who believe to His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ; and through the work of Jesus Christ saving each one that believes. Now let’s look at how Jesus Christ is able to not lose any of those who have been drawn to believe for eternal life in Christ.
  
  First, God Almighty has willed that there be those who will be saved, and he has sealed them by Himself.
  
  Those who are drawn by God the Father to Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit quickens them to see and hear the Word of God, and believe are born again, born from above; and are “sealed†by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption at the First Resurrection.
  
  The one who establishes, makes firm, confirms, makes sure of believers in Christ and anoints us is God Almighty (vs. 21). It is God Almighty that seals us, marks us for security and preservation having given us the earnest or pledge of the Spirit in our hearts. The earnest is part of the purchase which is given in advance as security of the final purchased possession which is in Christ Jesus and will be fulfilled at the resurrection (vs. 22).
  
  [list:7efsl59y] 18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 1:18-22

God Almighty will gather together in one all things in heaven and on earth in Christ Jesus; and it is in Jesus’ work and in Him that born again, born from above believers have obtained an inheritance. For God Almighty works out all things after the counsel of His own will that all believers should be to the praise of His glory; those who trusted in Christ Jesus.

For you see, all that have trusted in Christ Jesus after hearing the word of truth, the gospel of salvation after which all that believed were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. The Holy Spirit of Promise is the earnest or pledge of the born again, born from above believers’ inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession unto the praise of His glory.

• 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:10-14

Again we can see where the Scriptures teach that born again, born from above believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit in Paul’s writings those at Ephesus.

Paul exhorts those believers not to walk in sin as the "old man," as do those who are ignorant and blind to the truth, but as they were taught of the truth that is in Christ Jesus, and as Jesus walked.

He teaches them to put on the New Man which is created by God in righteousness and true holiness (vs. 24). In verse 30 Paul tells us that we are to not grieve the Holy Spirit (which dwells inside every born again, born from above believer) by continuing to sin as the old man; and note that it is stated that these believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

• 7 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness F11 of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Ephesians 4:7-32

Not only does God Almighty initiate the Salvation of mankind by drawing all those that are chosen to Jesus Christ, and then quickening them to the point that they can see and hear the word of God, the gospel of Jesus Christ so that they might believe, He also stamps his seal or pledge of security onto the believer by Himself coming to dwell within each born again, born of God believer.

The Scriptures teach that God Almighty comes to indwell every believer, and seals them until the day of redemption at which time God Almighty completes the Salvation gift that he has given to the world.[/list:u:7efsl59y]

 

[Solo]

Eternal Security of the Believer - Part 6 of 7

Point 3C:
Salvation is Initiated, Secured, and Completed by God Almighty:

No one comes to be "saved" by one's own initiative; the entire process of being "saved" is initiated by God Almighty through the "work" of God Almighty. No one remains “saved†by one’s own security; the entire life of a believer is "sealed" by God Almighty. No one “completes†Salvation through their own works; the redemption of the believer is “completed†by God Almighty.

• C. Salvation Completed by God Almighty:
  
  Those who have been born again, born of God are believers who are complete in Christ Jesus.
  
  Verse 10 below tells us that we are complete in Christ Jesus, and that in Him we have circumcised the flesh, not with hands, but without hands by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ. What does this all mean?
  
  Circumcision was a covenant that God had made with Abraham (Genesis 17:1-27), and this covenant of cutting off the unnecessary flesh was a picture of Christ’s circumcision not made with hands but made by his dying in the flesh, and then rising from the dead. The good news is that all believers can now be established in the flesh of Christ Jesus where ALL sins of the flesh were nailed onto the cross, for He has made all believers alive together with Him as He has forgiven ALL of their transgressions.
  
  Jesus has blotted out all of the handwriting of ordinances that were against mankind, which were contrary, and took them and nailed them to the cross. If these are nailed to the cross for our forgiveness, and life as a new man; what is going to condemn us?
  
  [list:1mpvouow] 4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Colossians 2:4-15

Jesus Christ has finished the work necessary to save those whom God the Father has given Him, over the power of all flesh, giving eternal life to all who believe and are born again, born from above.

• 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:1-5

Are we justified by working our way to God Almighty?

No.

How then are we justified?

We are justified by God’s grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus whom God sent to be the payment/appeasement through faith in His blood to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins; not to declare OUR righteousness for the remission of sins.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, so if Jesus’ work was enough to make payment or appeasement for one sin, why is the work of Jesus Christ not enough to make the payment or appeasement for ALL sins?

Once again, God sent forth Jesus Christ to be propitiation through faith in His blood to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins, not OUR righteousness for the remission of sins. Therefore, God Almighty has completed His Salvation for those who believe, and when Jesus Christ returns to redeem His chosen, God Almighty will be glorified, and Jesus Christ’s righteousness will shine as He is just, and He is the one that justifies those who believe in Jesus Christ.

A believer is justified in Christ for His works, for His righteousness; not for his own works or his own works.

• 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26

[/list:u:1mpvouow]

 

[Solo]

Eternal Security of the Believer - Part 7 of 7

Conclusion:

Salvation is the process that God Almighty initiates to save the world from condemnation through believing on the name of Jesus Christ as the Spirit reveals the truth to each one that is called.

Those who believe are born again, born from above, and the Holy Spirit comes and dwells within each true born again believer. This indwelling of the Holy Spirit seals the believer with God’s pledge of security for eternal life.

The redemption that occurs at the resurrection of the believer is the completed work of Jesus Christ, and no man has ever lived that could make the dead live again except for the Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

The most important verse of Scripture in this entire thesis as it relates to the eternal security of the believer is the last one in the previous post. In it God reveals that believers are not saved by their own righteousness, but are saved by the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

• 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:25-26

To be righteous before God cannot be performed by anyone performing any kind of work, even if one were to die on the cross themselves. Why?

Because they are unclean, sinners incapable of offering a sacrifice without blemish to atone for ones sins. The only righteousness that one can gain to pay the penalty for the sins committed is by having faith in Jesus Christ’s work on the cross; for this faith in Christ imparts God’s righteousness upon each born again believer: “for there is no difference!â€Â

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God; therefore each born again believer is FREELY justified by GOD’s GRACE through the REDEMPTION that is in CHRIST JESUS.

• 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Romans 3:22-24

A born again, born from above believer does not keep his own salvation on his own works of righteousness, because it is not his own salvation but God’s Salvation that is the free gift; and God’s Salvation is not governed by mankind’s works, but by the works of Jesus Christ.

• 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:15-18

 

[cyberjosh]

Hi Solo,

I'll have to see if I can squeeze in some time soon to read your recent posts. Looks like you went to a good bit of detail in them. I wanted to hear your thoughts though on my previous post (here) to you. I look forward to your reply.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[francisdesales]

Good morning, Mike. Now that you have had the weekend to post your detailed understanding, let's look at some points where we may disagree and agree. First, the definitions...

First, let us ask the question, What is "Eternal Security"?

Eternal Security is the term used to describe the state of an individual who has been "saved"?

That is a definition based upon begging the question. You have yet to prove that being saved is "eternal security", nor is that universally accepted. When beginning such a 'dissertation', you don't begin by begging the question that you intend to prove. That is the entire point of this thread - to show that being saved IS eternally secured. I will get to my reasonings on my disagreement later as I address your very well laid out points.

I would like to point this out for others, because people can be subliminally effected by such misleading "definitions".

Which leads to the question, "saved" from what?

An individual is "saved" from condemnation or judgment.

Again, you are begging the question and ignoring Scriptures that say that even "saved" people are judged and some are even condemned. Your presumptions of John 3 are this:

Those initially saved are not condemned - based upon Christ's words that those who are NOT initially saved are condemned. This is false logic that jumps to conclusions

Here is Christ's point: Those who do not accept Christ's Gospel are condemned.

This does NOT mean that those who DO accept Christ's Gospel AVOID condemnation, because no statement is made about such a person who subsequently REJECTS the Gospel.

The only statement made is that rejecting the Gospel condemns. Accepting the Gospel saves.

But nothing is said about a person who falls away AFTER receiving the Gospel and accepting it.

Jesus VERY CLEARLY says that people DO fall away - and are subsequently condemned. Where? Try first the parable of the Sower and the Seed. The seed is the Word, the Gospel. Note how some receive the Gospel and have faith and are joyous to begin with but LATER, because of the worries of the world, fall away and LOSE faith. They fall away.

Thus, your interpretation of John 3 does not take into account all of what Christ said, because it presumes or begs the question. You presume that those who accept the Gospel cannot later reject it, when Christ doesn't say that. Ever.

How is one "condemned"?

An individual is condemned when they are born into physical existence at the point one becomes a living human.

Again, where do we have this in Scriptures? Christ says that REJECTING the Gospel brings about condemnation, not being born!!! This is an incredible misunderstanding of Who God is...

I am not sure if this comes from misinterpretating John 3:5 or whether this is a result of Luther's low opinion of man that has filtered into your paradigm. However, John 3 doesn't say ANYTHING about being physically born = being condemned!

Basically, that says that God creates men for the express purpose of condemning them, the age-old error of Calvin... Truly, it is a terrible idea of Who God is and His LOVE for mankind.

Let us look at what Jesus Christ reveals about salvation, and one is to see and enter the kingdom of God. We will turn to the Gospel according to John, chapter 3.

Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews came to Jesus and states that he knows Jesus to be a teacher from God because of the works that Jesus does. Nicodemus states that no man could do the miracles that Jesus does except that God be with Him. Jesus then reveals to Nicodemus that an individual cannot even see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

What is being born again mean? The Greek words γεννηθη (gennÄ“thÄ“) and ἄνÉθεν (anÃ…Âthen) are translated into the English King James Version as "born again."

The alternative and correct interpretation is "born from above". Nicodemus expresses the confusion - since the words can mean "born again" or "born from above". He thinks Christ means "born again" by describing his disbelief in crawling back into the womb. (John 3:4) Jesus corrects Nicodemus by DIFFERENTIATING between things of the flesh and things of the spirit. He is speaking about something Nicodemus SHOULD KNOW!

Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? John 3:10

Oh, yes, these are not unknown secrets to the Jews. This is not some incredible new teaching. The Jews KNEW that one could not walk in the ways of the Lord UNLESS God guided them, unless they walked a walk of faith. They knew this - and is the idea is clearly present in the many Psalms, such as Psalm 119:

My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word. I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes. Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works. My soul melteth for heaviness: strengthen thou me according unto thy word. Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously. I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid [before me]. I have stuck unto thy testimonies: O LORD, put me not to shame. I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart. Ps 119:25-32

I could go on, but you get the picture. I underlined the last verse here just to show that the Jews did understand and were taught that one can follow God's Laws only by guidance from God Himself. One must be born of God's Spirit and actively seek God in faith - and HE will enable us to do all of that.

But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, why do you turn back again to the weak and miserable elemental principles, to which you desire to be in bondage all over again? James 1:17

Uh, yea, that doesn't help your position, does it. :halo

It points out what you have inadvertently overlooked in John 3 - by saying that ALL who initially accept the Word DO NOT fall away and become condemned...

Therefore, the revelation that Jesus Christ gives us in John 3 is that in order to see and enter the kingdom of God, one must be born, beget, or conceived from above, again, from the beginning, from the top.

Agreed - and thus, I will not address "part 2 of 7", since we - and I believe most Christians - say that one cannot follow the ways of the Lord UNLESS we are given aide from above.

Nicodemus is confused, and asks Jesus how one is to be born again, and Jesus replies to him that one must be born of water, the physical birth; and born of the Spirit, the spiritual birth.

No. I will simply say that such an interpretation is on the silly side, if you think about it.

WHO says any of the following???

"Unless you are physically born and exercise, you cannot become stronger".
"Unless you are physically born and turn in your homework, you cannot pass this class".
"Unless you are physically born and start the lawnmower, the yard will not get done".
"Unless you are physically born and turn in that report by tommorrow, we will lose the Smith account"...

What an amazingly redundant and "no freakin kiddin'" thing to say! "Unless you are physically born..." Who would say such a thing? Clearly, Jesus is refering to ONE operation. Being born of water and the Spirit at the same time. Not being born physically, and then being born spiritually...

Think about it. WHO talks that way? EVERYONE IN EXISTENCE was/is born physically. There is no need to make that distinction, nor was there a need for Jesus to talk about "unless you have two arms" or "unless you are breathing"...

And finally, WHERE does "being born of water"= "physical birth" in the Bible? Why would Nicodemus, upon hearing "being born of water" think "physical birth"?

The confusion of thinking of physical birth is over "born again" vs. "born from above". You can read about it in your own posts of the Greek.

Jesus clearly meant "born from above". Not "born again".

Those who die in the flesh after having been born of the flesh and born of the Spirit await the moment of their resurrection into a "changed," "glorified," resurrected body.

Presuming they persevere until the end. Christ's own words...

Jesus teaches Nicodemus, and all those who are able to read and/or hear his words in the Word of God that all those who are born of the flesh and born of the Spirit are not condemned; however, all of those who have been born of the flesh, and are not born of the Spirit remained condemned.

Again, Jesus does NOT address HERE whether those who are born of the Spirit cannot subsequently fall and ALSO be condemned. He does elsewhere.

Carefully read what Jesus says:

He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already John 3:18

or

he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16b

Note, the present tense of "believes". It doesn't say "if you believed one time, long time ago".

One must CONTINUE to believe in Him to remain "not condemned". Thus, here is your mistake in interpretating John 3, leading to your mistaken theology.

Those who reject the Gospel are condemned. Whether they accept the Lord and LATER reject Him (do not persevere until the end) or whether they NEVER accept the Lord. Each are condemned...

Is THIS a new idea???

NO!

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Ez 18:24

Even the Jews before Christ knew that one must persevere in the ways of the Lord UNTIL THE END to be "eternally secure". "Accepting Christ" does not guarantee you eternal security, since one can reject Christ later - and one no longer "believes on Christ" - and has rejected Him. Those who reject Christ are condemned. Doesn't matter WHEN that happens. Thus, the idea of "accepting Christ" does not, in of itself, provide "eternal security" from falling away and being condemned.

Regards

 

[XTruth]

Solo…
Agreed, for the most part. The language used “secured†is not agreed with. The Holy Spirit is a down payment, an earnest, first fruits of salvation, not something that guarantees salvation through life no matter what a Christian does. That would make God a respecter of persons (2 Sam.14:14; 2 Chr.19:7; Acts 10:34; Rom.2:11; Eph.6:9; Col.3:25; 1 Pt.1:17), and a sinner Himself (Jas 2:9-10). The Holy Spirit can be taken away (Judg.16:20; 1 Sam.16:14; Ps.51:11).

I also agree w/ francisdesales , except one thing that will help clear up a misunderstanding between you two. Rom.5:12-21 does teach us that all are born in sin, in a fallen state, condemned, b/c of the one sin of one man. That passage of verses also proves why John 3 says we must be spiritually born "again." To do something again means it's been done at least once before. While Adam was righteous, all were righteous while in his loins. When Adam sinned, all became unrighteous when he sinned. So that passage doesn't only prove that Adam's salvation was lost for a time, but that all have already lost their salvation once before and are only regaining it when they come to Christ the first time.

It is also agreed that man must be born again to see eternal life, this is evident. What you fail to understand, Solo, is that being born of the Spirit is not comparable to being born of the flesh. Man doesn’t have physical life before conception. What I mean is that he isn’t dead and just awaiting life. Man’s spirit on the other hand is in existence before it has been given and promised eternal life at the rebirth. The spirit of man is in man his whole life, even though most spirits are not ever given life from the new birth (2 Cor.5:17-21; Eph.4:20-24; Col.3:5-10).

So what happens at the birth of a spirit since it has been in existence since conception from the reproduction process of the parents? Simple, all past sins have been taken away. Sin brings/ brings back the death penalty of the spirit (Gen.2:17; Ex.32:33; 34:7; Num.14:18; Job 10:14; Eze.18:4, 20; Jn.8:34; Rom.6:16, 23; 8:12-13; 1 Cor.3:16-17; 6:9-10; Gal.5:19-21; 6:7-8; Eph.5:3-7; Col.3:5-10; Jas.1:15; 1 Jn.3:4, 8-10; Rv.21:8, 27; 22:15; etc.). So with the past sins pardoned at repentance, the death penalty from the law of sin and death has no legal right to the spirit. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ, BUT to those who live after the flesh, they either have, or bring back the death penalty. Death is what is owed to all who have unrepented sin. The spirit death leading to eternal death is what is referred to, or else all would be justified at physical death, thus the penalty would be paid and all would go to heaven. Also, if physical death were the real penalty for sin, then no Christian would ever die physically with his sins being forgiven and not on his account anymore. The real key to all of this is what sins are forgiven. Commonsense says that only sins one has actually committed can be pardoned and forgiven. The Word confirms this (Rom.3:25; 2 Pt.1:9). So with only past sins being forgiven, how can future sin be automatically atoned for….it isn’t.

The last thing not agreed with is that salvation is only a work of God. If this were true, then all would be saved since God desires for all of us to be saved (1 Tim.2:4; 2 Pt.3:9; Rev.22:17). If man has no part in salvation, then God is a respecter of persons, or not doing His job in order to assure salvation for everyone. Man does have his own responsibility to play in order to meet the conditions of salvation and to continue meeting them everyday (pick up cross daily and follow Me).

Coming to the Light is a continual action, lest the language is in vain. For your belief, you should say, “come to the Light once.â€Â

Again, no one on either side of the debate believes they are saved by any works of their own (Jn.3:16; Rom.4:1-6; 10:9-13; Eph.2:8-9; Tit.3:5). That is b/c no one can take away their own sins, this is how we are justified (made innocent)…the total removal of all sin we’ve ever committed. Now, after one has been justified, it does take works of righteousness in order to remain walking in the Spirit and not the flesh (Gal.5:19-21; 6:7-8). Staying free from sin is the only way to stay justified (innocent). One cannot be “in Christ†and “in sin†at the same time (Jn.8:34, 51; Rom.6:16; Gal.6:7-8; 1 Jn.1:6). In Christ, there is no sin (2 Cor.5:21; 1 Pt.2:22; 1 Jn.3:5). 1 Jn.2:6 “He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.†Initial salvation is faith + no works (Eph.2:8-9). Eternal salvation is faith + works (Jas.2:14-26). Jas.2:24 “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.†This is the reason for Jesus’ language of works in Rev.2-3.

The entire Scripture must be used in order to understand sound doctrine.