Eternal Security of the Born Again Believer is Truth

[Rick W]

Yes Rick, but we both know that all the other verses does not change the meaning of verse 25

It still says, that willing sin will not be forgiven because it has no sacrifice.

Then Peter could not be forgiven.

Thank you Cornelius,
This was a bad post from Solo and nothing more than a personal attack. I'll assume you're just having a bad day and chalk it up to that, Solo. Also, Rick and Mondar, I never ever once said I don't have a sin nature. I do b/c I battle it daily to bring it into subjection so that I myself won't be a castaway, a reprobate, rejected. I never once said I never sinned. I have always said that past sins are forgiven only and if you do fall in sin, even a tiny lie, then you must repent.

Mat 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
Mat 26:70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
Mat 26:71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
Mat 26:72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
Mat 26:73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
Mat 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

 

[MarkT]

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

There's the willing spirit and the wilfull spirit. Both are in the church. The willing spirit trusts in the will of God; it will be as God declared - leave it to God. The wilfull spirit trusts in the will of man; it will be as men decide. So that's why Paul says, 'if we sin deliberately', then, yes, there is the prospect of judgment. But then he goes on to say, 'But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and keep their souls.' Heb. 10:39

I have never seen the correction of a doctrine or the teaching of the truth as "beating up" of anybody. If that were the case, then we should all just leave each other alone and pray for the best. But we are not told to do that, are we?

Paul told Timothy to "command and teach" (a bit stronger than just teach)


1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.

Paul corrected the Galatians in a very strong way for their error:Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you........

If we do not love, we will not correct. I am not seeing anybody being beaten up here.But I see a lot of love and care go into some posts, with a lot of work and scripture quotes that takes up the time of the poster, because as you can see in the posts of X-truth , he is not just posting, but doing a full back-up of scripture. This takes A LOT of time. Only somebody who actually cares about the reader, will take all this trouble.

Seems to me you and Xtruth care more about what they believe than what they teach if you think they will fall into unbelief or immorality. But if they believe in the Lord Jesus, then what is it to you if they also believe they are always saved? Didn't Paul write, 'There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus ... if the Spirit of God really dwells in you.' Romans 8:1-11.

 

[XTruth]

You fellows want a legalistic answer to a question framed by legalism.
Salvation is not a legalistic issue. You're trying to compare apples and oranges. It isn't going to work.

All men are governed by the laws of God whether they believe in Him or not.
God and Messiah are the lawgivers (Gen.49:10; Jas.4:12), this certainly confirms that there are laws that He has given.
God is the God of judgment (Mal.2:17). He is God the judge of all men (Heb.12:23).
God is the one lawgiver and the judge, who is able to save or to destroy. Man has no right to usurp this authority (Jas.4:11-12), it only by the authority of His Word that we are given any legs to stand. He has not left us ignorant concerning His laws.

Their was the law of Moses (Rom.2:12; 3:19; 7:12)
Their is the law of nature (Rom.2:14-15)
The law of faith (Rom.3:27; 4:3-5, 11-24)
The law of the mind (Rom.7:16, 21, 23)
The law of sin (Rom.7:23, 25; 8:2)
The law of righteousness (Rom.9:31)
The law of God (Rom.7:22, 25)
The law of the Spirit of life (Rom.8:2)
The royal law of liberty (Jas.2:8-12)
The law of mercy (Mat.5:7)
The law of forgiveness (Mat.6:14-15)
The law of Christ (Gal.6:1-2)
The law of sowing and reaping (Gal.6:7-8), etc.

You may believe there are laws, you may not, but one thing is sure, you don't believe the punishment is real according to the warnings of God.

Legalism disregards the relationship I've been trying so hard to convey.

Who was it that walked in the garden with God in order to talk with Him and have a relationship w/ Him as a son and a friend? Was not this same man condemned for breaking the law of His Father and Friend?

Did peter lose his salvation when he denied Christ? Remember, he never asked forgiveness.

How could I possibly answer such a complicated question posed by one who believes salvation is unconditional? Oh Yeah, the Word of God...it seems clear to me. "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven (Mat.10:32-33)."

Your turn, Can a Christian inherit the kingdom of God if they are having premarital sex and die in that sin?

 

[XTruth]

Yes Rick, but we both know that all the other verses does not change the meaning of verse 25

It still says, that willing sin will not be forgiven because it has no sacrifice.

Then Peter could not be forgiven.

Thank you Cornelius,
This was a bad post from Solo and nothing more than a personal attack. I'll assume you're just having a bad day and chalk it up to that, Solo. Also, Rick and Mondar, I never ever once said I don't have a sin nature. I do b/c I battle it daily to bring it into subjection so that I myself won't be a castaway, a reprobate, rejected. I never once said I never sinned. I have always said that past sins are forgiven only and if you do fall in sin, even a tiny lie, then you must repent.

Mat 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
Mat 26:70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
Mat 26:71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
Mat 26:72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
Mat 26:73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
Mat 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

UH OH, looks like you caught me contradicting myself....wait a minute??????

Enough distractions, Can a Christian inherit the kingdom of God if they are having premarital sex and die in that sin?

 

[XTruth]

Seems to me you and Xtruth care more about what they believe than what they teach if you think they will fall into unbelief or immorality. But if they believe in the Lord Jesus, then what is it to you if they also believe they are always saved? Didn't Paul write, 'There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus ... if the Spirit of God really dwells in you.' Romans 8:1-11.

I believe you've trimmed the parts off that passage that seem undesirable to you.

Rom.8:1-4
"1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Rom.8:6-8
"6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

Why'd you stop at verse 11???
Rom.8:12-13
"12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."


So maybe you would be so kind as to answer a simple yes or no question?
Can a Christian inherit the kingdom of God if they are having premarital sex and die in that sin?

 

[Rick W]

Distractions?
Peter sinned. He willfully lied. And as Cornelius is so ardently attempting to pointing out that any willful sin is unforgivable. You say one must repent. Cornelius gives no such condition.

By Cornelius's interpretation focused only on those two verses then:
willful sin = the unforgivable sin.

Can a Christian inherit the kingdom of God if they are having premarital sex and die in that sin?"

By the legalism you fellows advocate the answer is no, that Christian is lost, condemned forever to Hell. If this is what you fellows believe then by that belief you yourselves shall be judged. Walk straightly in your perfection for it is by your belief you will be judged as you judge those who trespass against you. I judge you not, I don't need to do so for you have already judged yourselves by the laws you uphold and live by.

I praise God the legalism advocated is not true. 2
And I pray you are not judged so severely.

I have always said that past sins are forgiven only

Christ did not die for forgiveness of sins but for the removal of the condemnation of sin.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

And again...

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

:amen

In Him is my confidence. (not in myself)
In Him is my trust. (not in myself)
In Him is my faith. (not in myself)
In Him is my salvation. (not in myself)

 

[Cornelius]

Seems to me you and Xtruth care more about what they believe than what they teach if you think they will fall into unbelief or immorality. But if they believe in the Lord Jesus, then what is it to you if they also believe they are always saved? Didn't Paul write, 'There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus ... if the Spirit of God really dwells in you.' Romans 8:1-11.

No, that would be wrong to care more about what they teach against if they sin.

Problem is, that this teaching causes people to think lightly about sin.Its so easy, just say you are sorry and go and do it again.

I quoted somebody on a previous post, who said that they are Christians swingers (yes there are "Christian" swingers) and they told a non Christian (who correctly questioned them being right about being Christians AND swingers, he correctly said its an oxymoron .........but then the world sees more than the people of God , as Jesus pointed out) ......he said: Its easy to be a Christian,you just have to say you are sorry and you are forgiven (That is a greasy gospel and preached by many)

So, no, this is not to promote just right or wrong, but to bring God's people into true victory, where they indeed have victory over the flesh.

 

[Cornelius]

Distractions?
Peter sinned. He willfully lied. And as Cornelius is so ardently attempting to pointing out that any willful sin is unforgivable. You say one must repent. Cornelius gives no such condition.

By Cornelius's interpretation focused only on those two verses then:
willful sin = the unforgivable sin.

Its actually not Cornelius who says so, but the letter to the Hebrews.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

but I give up, I have taken my pen and I have changed my Bible to read:

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth a sacrifice for sins, 27 and not a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and not a fierceness of fire which shall not devour the Christians.

That should take care of it now, it now suits the doctrine, that we can sin willfully.

 

[Rick W]

We are no better than Peter.

Heb 10:26 refers to those who turn their backs on the Lord and in their hearts reject Christ making His blood shed on the cross unholy.
Apostasy.

 

[Rick W]

I believe those sown in stony ground will wither and die.
I believe those sown among the thorns will be choked.
I believe those sown in good ground will bear fruit unto eternal life.
I believe Christ is the Good Shepherd.
I believe Christ died, was buried and from the moment He rose again destroyed forever the condemnation of sin for those who would believe.


I do not believe the legalism being advocated and never will.

 

[Cornelius]

There is only one unforgivable sin, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

Hebrews, says there is no more sacrifice for willful (premeditated ) sin. (cheating on your tax return is premeditated, planning to rob the store is premeditated, working at seducing your neighbor's wife is premeditated. Living in sin with your girlfriend is willful sin.) Although such sins do not fall under "unforgivable, they do not have a sacrifice. YOU and ME, we have to pay for them. God will bring judgment into your life as a result of this sin. You will get a spanking from the Lord. Just the same as king David did, when he deliberately sinned with Bathsheba . God caused David's son to die , so David paid for his own sin.

That is why Hebrews 10 tells us that there will be judgment. God will whip you, because He loves you. BUT if you do not repent and the chastening of the Lord has no effect on your heart.... you will be reprobated. God will cut you off, because you refuse to repent. You are not interested in changing.

That person has now reached this scripture:

Heb 10:29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So God will give us time to repent, but if we abuse His grace, He will reprobate us, because we chose to stay in willing disobedience to His Word.

Surely that is clear to a Christian, who's heart is suppose to follow after the Word of God. Why do anybody want to defend rebellion against God ?

 

[XTruth]

Distractions?
Peter sinned. He willfully lied. And as Cornelius is so ardently attempting to pointing out that any willful sin is unforgivable. You say one must repent. Cornelius gives no such condition.

Sounds like you don't think one has to repent?
Mark 1:15
15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luke 13:5
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

By Cornelius's interpretation focused only on those two verses then:
willful sin = the unforgivable sin.

Can a Christian inherit the kingdom of God if they are having premarital sex and die in that sin?"

Heb 10 26-29 is about apostasy. If one denies Christ, then there is no more a sacrifice for sins, even though they were once saved...they are now damned. Don't you believe that?

By the legalism you fellows advocate the answer is no, that Christian is lost, condemned forever to Hell.

By the Word of God, not by anything we have said:

Rom.1:29-32
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1 Cor.6:9-10
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal.5:19-21
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph.5:3-7
3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Gal.6:7-8
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

This is Paul warning the BELIEVERS that unforfeitable innocence is not true...DO NOT BE DECEIVED!

If this is what you fellows believe then by that belief you yourselves shall be judged. Walk straightly in your perfection for it is by your belief you will be judged as you judge those who trespass against you. I judge you not, I don't need to do so for you have already judged yourselves by the laws you uphold and live by.

Is there more than one truth, more than one way God judges? Are you advocating that if one doesn't believe something to be sin, then it is not sin to him? Have you turned to the folly of Billy Graham in his later years?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0

If you believe premarital sex won't condemn you, then it won't??? If you believe it will condemn you then it will??? Is the law of sowing and reaping a law for all, or a law for those who believe? What about the rest of the laws? Either way you answer this anti Christian claim of yours, you have contradicted yourself by saying that we will be judged by our sin, if we live according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit, which is "in Christ." What you believe is what is right to you? Think carefully before you are too quick to type. This is what you've said.
Their is the law of nature (Rom.2:14-15)
The law of faith (Rom.3:27; 4:3-5, 11-24)
The law of the mind (Rom.7:16, 21, 23)
The law of sin (Rom.7:23, 25; 8:2)
The law of righteousness (Rom.9:31)
The law of God (Rom.7:22, 25)
The law of the Spirit of life (Rom.8:2)
The royal law of liberty (Jas.2:8-12)
The law of mercy (Mat.5:7)
The law of forgiveness (Mat.6:14-15)
The law of Christ (Gal.6:1-2)
The law of sowing and reaping (Gal.6:7-8)

I praise God the legalism advocated is not true. 2
And I pray you are not judged so severely.

If I fall to sin and don't repent and turn from my wickedness, which ALL sin is, then I will not inherit the kingdom of God; neither will you. There is only one truth. It doesn't matter if you believe sin won't condemn you, if God has said otherwise...and He has.

I have always said that past sins are forgiven only

Christ did not die for forgiveness of sins but for the removal of the condemnation of sin.

1 Jn.3:5
"5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."
There is no taking away of sin without the forgiveness of sin. There is no forgiveness of sin apart from repentance. It is not based on Christ's faith in Himself, but OUR faith in Christ. Our faith is OUR faith.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If you wanna do a quich word study on the greek word used for the word "believe," which is "pisteuo," then let me know. It has been translated in the N.T. FOR OUR WORDS "FAITH," And "believe." Even in 18 verses later:
Jn.3:36
"36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
And it is written that faith w/o works is dead. By that example in Jas.2, we see that the work is the work of obedience to God's commandments (Jas.2:14-26). Can a dead faith grant you entrance into the kingdom of God?

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

You really should keep reading:

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


I went ahead and underlined the parts that disprove the unconditional aspect of the salvation you believe to have. By saying there is no law of God that you have to subject yourself to, AND by claiming that it is only true for you if you believe it is, THEN you have created a god to suit your beliefs instead of subjecting your mind to the Word of God to believe His sayings.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

This verse is about the new covenant, which had said that man certainly is capable of breaking a covenant with God (Heb.8:9). All covenants arwe conditional and all covenanyts can be broken. Thanks to God's Word, we are assured that He will never break covenant (Jn.10:25-29), But we sure can.
Heb.10:35-39
35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. The word "believe" in verse 39 comes from the Greek word "pistis," which is a constancy of profession...a continued action, not a one time thang.

And again...

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

:amen

The passage of Heb.10:10-18 is all about the atonement of the sacrifice of christ. Where sins are remitted, there is no more need of an offering for sins any longer. Thus Paul concludes his argument of the priesthood of Christ, begun in Heb.5:1. Christ's offering is efficacious for all past, present, and future sins, but on the condition of proper confession of sin and meeting the terms of continued grace, not a once and for all hyper-grace that has never been spoken of in His Word (1 Jn.1:9; Rom.10:9-10).

In Him is my confidence. (not in myself)
In Him is my trust. (not in myself)
In Him is my faith. (not in myself)
In Him is my salvation. (not in myself)

[/quote]
:amen

 

[MarkT]

Why'd you stop at verse 11???

Because I wanted to make that point; that there is no condemnation in Christ, that is, if the Spirit of God 'really' dwells in you. Notice I said 'really'; if the Spirit 'really' dwells in you.

So maybe you would be so kind as to answer a simple yes or no question?
Can a Christian inherit the kingdom of God if they are having premarital sex and die in that sin?

I'm not the judge.

By the legalism you fellows advocate the answer is no, that Christian is lost, condemned forever to Hell. If this is what you fellows believe then by that belief you yourselves shall be judged. Walk straightly in your perfection for it is by your belief you will be judged as you judge those who trespass against you. I judge you not, I don't need to do so for you have already judged yourselves by the laws you uphold and live by.

You got it Rick!

Problem is, that this teaching causes people to think lightly about sin.Its so easy, just say you are sorry and go and do it again.

I see what you mean but it's not like that in reality. In reality we hate sin. Having the fear of the LORD - the fear of the LORD is hatred of evil - we hate wrong doing. 'The LORD loves those who hate evil; he preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked.' Ps. 97:10

I quoted somebody on a previous post, who said that they are Christians swingers (yes there are "Christian" swingers) and they told a non Christian (who correctly questioned them being right about being Christians AND swingers, he correctly said its an oxymoron .........but then the world sees more than the people of God , as Jesus pointed out) ......he said: Its easy to be a Christian,you just have to say you are sorry and you are forgiven (That is a greasy gospel and preached by many)

I agree they should repent and stop doing it. A Christian swinger? That's not right. You know this is an adulterous generation. They may have the name of being alive but they are dead and at the point of death. Still, Paul gave us the example of a man who was living with his father's wife. He told the men of Corinth to assemble, and with the power of the Lord Jesus, they were to deliver the man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Cor. 5 So here we have a man who was behaving immorally, who was handed over to Satan (I'm guessing he was cast out or maybe he was handed over to the Jews, I don't know) for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be 'saved' in the day of the Lord.

So, no, this is not to promote just right or wrong, but to bring God's people into true victory, where they indeed have victory over the flesh.

The only victory is in Christ. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death. Since we are no longer under the law of sin and death, we can say we have conquered death. However, I agree we must keep ourselves from immorality. For even though all things are lawful, not all things build up. And like I said, we hate evil and all wrong doing.

But in our flesh, we are sinners. As Paul said, 'For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I can not do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.' Romans 7:18

 

[MarkT]

There is only one unforgivable sin, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

Hebrews, says there is no more sacrifice for willful (premeditated ) sin. (cheating on your tax return is premeditated, planning to rob the store is premeditated, working at seducing your neighbor's wife is premeditated. Living in sin with your girlfriend is willful sin.) Although such sins do not fall under "unforgivable, they do not have a sacrifice. YOU and ME, we have to pay for them. God will bring judgment into your life as a result of this sin. You will get a spanking from the Lord. Just the same as king David did, when he deliberately sinned with Bathsheba . God caused David's son to die , so David paid for his own sin.

That is why Hebrews 10 tells us that there will be judgment. God will whip you, because He loves you. BUT if you do not repent and the chastening of the Lord has no effect on your heart.... you will be reprobated. God will cut you off, because you refuse to repent. You are not interested in changing.

That person has now reached this scripture:

Heb 10:29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So God will give us time to repent, but if we abuse His grace, He will reprobate us, because we chose to stay in willing disobedience to His Word.

Surely that is clear to a Christian, who's heart is suppose to follow after the Word of God. Why do anybody want to defend rebellion against God ?

I think in this we have to recognize some things. Our faculties have been trained by practice to distinguish good from evil, as Paul said. But there are those who have swerved from the truth, apostates, who take good for evil and evil for good. For sin is deceitful.

When Paul says if we sin deliberately, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, and he talks about the man who profanes the blood of the covenant, he is talking about those who have rationalized evil - the ones who teach and approve evil; the ones who have rationalized war, for example, - the ones who say there is such a thing as a just war - killing in the name of God to preserve freedom and democracy. Or they approve abortion. Or the ones who allow divorce. And the ones who ordain women and promote women's rights because they think it is right, and in turn they promote hatred and all manner of immorality. And the ones who approve and ordain homosexuals, even gay marriage, because they think it is right. And the ones who have been trained in greed. And the ones who make statues and bow down to them because they think it's right. They don't heed the admonition to keep away from idols.

Do not be deceived. Sin is deceitful. It can make us think we are righteous when we are far from being righteous. We know who they are because they even persecute the children of God and call them hateful. To them we are evil. There is no mercy or compassion in them. They think of themselves as being righteous. They love their own. They hate and revile the sons of God.

Because, as Paul said, after having received the knowledge of truth, they spurn the Son of God. Everything is upside down. They sin deliberately; taking evil for good. This whole world is upside down. There is hardly anything in it worth saving. That's how corrupt the current state of affairs is.

 

[XTruth]

Why'd you stop at verse 11???

Because I wanted to make that point; that there is no condemnation in Christ, that is, if the Spirit of God 'really' dwells in you. Notice I said 'really'; if the Spirit 'really' dwells in you.

Having the Spirit in you is absolutely no magic eraser that makes the sins of a Christian not real. The penalty of sin is repeatedly told to Christians and God's people after they had been caught in sin or thought that their sins didn't condemn them. This is the reason also that Paul gives so many conditions in that short passage and why verses 12-13 even make it more clear that ones who follow the Spirit will live, BUT if we live after the flesh, THEN we will die (this is the same as Gal 5:16-26). Rom.8:13 - "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Please notice the bold-faced word "ye," not unbelievers, but "YOU."

So maybe you would be so kind as to answer a simple yes or no question?
Can a Christian inherit the kingdom of God if they are having premarital sex and die in that sin?

I'm not the judge.

Well, let me remind you what the Judge has clearly said...
Rom.1:29-32
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1 Cor.6:9-10
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal.5:19-21
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph.5:3-7
3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Gal.6:7-8
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

This is Paul warning the BELIEVERS that unforfeitable innocence is not true...DO NOT BE DECEIVED!

By the legalism you fellows advocate the answer is no, that Christian is lost, condemned forever to Hell. If this is what you fellows believe then by that belief you yourselves shall be judged. Walk straightly in your perfection for it is by your belief you will be judged as you judge those who trespass against you. I judge you not, I don't need to do so for you have already judged yourselves by the laws you uphold and live by.

Mark said, "You got it Rick!"
XTruth says, "Is there more than one truth, more than one way God judges? Are you advocating that if one doesn't believe something to be sin, then it is not sin to him? Have you turned to the folly of Billy Graham in his later years?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0

If you believe premarital sex won't condemn you, then it won't??? If you believe it will condemn you then it will??? Is the law of sowing and reaping a law for all, or a law for those who believe? What about the rest of the laws? Either way you answer this anti Christian claim of yours, you have contradicted yourself by saying that we will be judged by our sin, if we live according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit, which is "in Christ." What you believe is what is right to you? Think carefully before you are too quick to type. This is what you've said.
Their is the law of nature (Rom.2:14-15)
The law of faith (Rom.3:27; 4:3-5, 11-24)
The law of the mind (Rom.7:16, 21, 23)
The law of sin (Rom.7:23, 25; 8:2)
The law of righteousness (Rom.9:31)
The law of God (Rom.7:22, 25)
The law of the Spirit of life (Rom.8:2)
The royal law of liberty (Jas.2:8-12)
The law of mercy (Mat.5:7)
The law of forgiveness (Mat.6:14-15)
The law of Christ (Gal.6:1-2)
The law of sowing and reaping (Gal.6:7-8)"

Problem is, that this teaching causes people to think lightly about sin.Its so easy, just say you are sorry and go and do it again.

I see what you mean but it's not like that in reality. In reality we hate sin. Having the fear of the LORD - the fear of the LORD is hatred of evil - we hate wrong doing. 'The LORD loves those who hate evil; he preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked.' Ps. 97:10

Yes, God's preservation (Vs.10; Rom.8:28), IF one obeys the command. If one hates sin and loves the Lord, he will not commit sin (Rom.12:9; 1 Thes.5:22; Heb.1:9).

How is it you cannot "judge" what our Judge has clearly told us to be right and wrong, but you can know the motivations, actions, ways, and hearts of the others who claim to being unconditionally innocent?

The only victory is in Christ. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death. Since we are no longer under the law of sin and death, we can say we have conquered death. However, I agree we must keep ourselves from immorality. For even though all things are lawful, not all things build up. And like I said, we hate evil and all wrong doing.

We are set free from the penalty of sin, which is eternal death in hell, because Jesus had taken ALL our transgressions of God's laws away. We are only free from the law of sin, which requires death, AS long as we stay free from sin. To believe we are not under any laws, or that it would somehow be lawful for a Christian to have premarital sex, but God will judge and condemn an unbeliever to hell for the same, is wrong and makes God a respecter of person.
Rom.1:29-2:3, 11)
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
11For there is no respect of persons with God.

But in our flesh, we are sinners. As Paul said, 'For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I can not do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.' Romans 7:18

Rom.7:7-25 is Paul's testimony to the Jews as to how he was under bondage while under the Mosaic Law, NOT while he was in Christ. You quote Rom.8 to prove we are in Christ, not condemned and that we are free from sin, then Rom. 7 to prove that we are in sin and servants to sin (Rom.6:16; Jn.8:34)?????????????????

 

[MarkT]

Having the Spirit in you is absolutely no magic eraser that makes the sins of a Christian not real.

I don't know what you mean by that. Paul said, 'To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.' Was Paul lying when he said, 'But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God really dwells in you'? Romans 8:6-9

The penalty of sin is repeatedly told to Christians and God's people after they had been caught in sin or thought that their sins didn't condemn them.

Sure.

This is the reason also that Paul gives so many conditions in that short passage and why verses 12-13 even make it more clear that ones who follow the Spirit will live, BUT if we live after the flesh, THEN we will die (this is the same as Gal 5:16-26). Rom.8:13 - "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Please notice the bold-faced word "ye," not unbelievers, but "YOU."

What conditions? Paul said, 'if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.' By that he means if we set our minds on the things of the Spirit - if we seek the knowledge of God, pray, forgive those who trespass against us. These are all things we do. He said, 'if you live according to the flesh, you will die.' But by that he is not saying we do live according to the flesh. He means we are not meant to live according to the flesh. We are not in the flesh, we are in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God really dwells in you.

So then 'by' the Spirit, 'by' setting our minds on the things of the Spirit, we put to death the deeds of the body. And he who sets our minds on the things of the Spirit is the Spirit himself. For Paul says, 'It is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God' Romans 8:16

It is 'by' the Spirit, not trusting our own mind, not by our own will or exertion. For we are led by the Spirit of God. Therefore, 'by' the Spirit, we put away the desires of the flesh - the desire for money, possessions, sexual pleasure, etc. which lead to sin and death. We don't worry about what we will eat or what we will wear. God knows we need those things and he provides them. We do as Jesus said - ' But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well.' Mt. 6:33 The Spirit himself gives us life. He teaches us man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Mt. 4:4 It is the Spirit himself who teaches us to pray, who keeps us from temptation, who delivers us from evil.

If the Spirit of God 'really' dwells in you.

 

[Joe67]

Let Romans 8:10 be emphasized (again if it has been stated before).

Rom 8:10
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

This is the two-edged sword. This is a simultaneous reality/experience. The body is not brought into spiritual life in this present evil world. When God creates the new heaven and the new earth, then the body/the creature will be partakers of the glory of God.

But now, we have the earnest of the Spirit in our inward man, because Jesus is at the right hand of God as our righteousness before the judgment bar of God, and all the accusations against the elect are defeated by Jesus' testimony. Jesus' testimony is ascending up before the Father, against the testimony of the accuser of the brethren. Jesus' testimony is a continual rebuke to the one who wants to cast body and soul into hell. The Father has given Jesus authority greater than the Accuser. He that Jesus confesses before the Father is given victory , in their inward parts, over the lies of the Accuser. Lies that lead us to add to the Word of God's prophecy. They will be delivered from the final delusion that leads humanity to take away from the words of the prophecy.

Ps 19:12-13
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. KJV

Joe

 

[Solo]

Let Romans 8:10 be emphasized (again if it has been stated before).

Rom 8:10
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

This is the two-edged sword. This is a simultaneous reality/experience. The body is not brought into spiritual life in this present evil world. When God creates the new heaven and the new earth, then the body/the creature will be partakers of the glory of God.

But now, we have the earnest of the Spirit in our inward man, because Jesus is at the right hand of God as our righteousness before the judgment bar of God, and all the accusations against the elect are defeated by Jesus' testimony. Jesus' testimony is ascending up before the Father, against the testimony of the accuser of the brethren. Jesus' testimony is a continual rebuke to the one who wants to cast body and soul into hell. The Father has given Jesus authority greater than the Accuser. He that Jesus confesses before the Father is given victory , in their inward parts, over the lies of the Accuser. Lies that lead us to add to the Word of God's prophecy. They will be delivered from the final delusion that leads humanity to take away from the words of the prophecy.

Ps 19:12-13
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. KJV

Joe

Well stated!