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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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[__ Science __ ] Evolution Is a Scientific Law?
- Thread starter AIG.com
- Start date
Barbarian
Member
So people with severe mental deficiencies don't have souls? I'd have to disagree. It's not dependent on brains. The soul is not an epiphenomenon of the brain.
We are truly primates. But that's not all we are. That "living soul" we get directly from God, remember?
God didn't talk about evolution or DNA or protons.
Wrong. We directly observe all of these as natural phenomena. Yes, when we look at the ancient Oklo reactor:
Meet Oklo, the Earth’s Two-billion-year-old only Known Natural Nuclear Reactor
Physicist Francis Perrin sat at a nuclearfuel-processing plant down in the south of France, thinking to himself: “This cannot be possible.” It was 1972.
And we see the evidence of protons in that radiation, it is historical science. But we still see protons acting today.
When we look at the many transitional series of fossils we see evidence of evolution in the past, and that is historical science. But we still see evolution happening in populations all around us today.
When we look at DNA from frozen animals in permafrost, that is historical science. But we still see DNA functioning in living things today.
The difference for YE creationists is that they don't think protons and DNA destroy their new doctrines.
Nope. It was invented in the last century by Seventh-Day Adventists.
EllenWhite.Org Website - Creation
Seventh-day Adventists believe that the entire universe came into being through divine creative acts ( Isa. 40:26 ; Ps. 19:1 ; 33:6 ), but that the narrative of Gen. 1 and 2 focuses primarily on this earth
ellenwhite.org
Your invention; it can be whatever you want it to be.
For a Christian, nature is also a miracle. It's the way He does most things in this world. You'll admit all sorts of miracles but balk at accepting the greatest and most wonderful of all.
Was. Death was defeated completely and finally by Jesus. Eternal life is yours, if you'll only accept it. No Christian should fear physical death. It holds no power over us.
Barbarian
Member
Doesn't say the world was flooded.It does say world in this verse . But.
For reasons we've already discussed.
Barbarian
Member
God, being omniscient, could not fail to know outcomes, even those completely random.
Dyonisius the Areopagite
Member
In that case the process would only be random from our point of view. From God's it would be predetermined. Thus, really, it would not be "completely random". The only way you could say it was completely random is if God also did not know the outcome.
They're still people, so that doesn't make for a good rebuttal. Animals never have nor will become people.
Ooh big word
Nor does the Bible tell of aliens from Mars or superman.
So oklo magically stayed presereved for all that time. But earth's crust constantly changes!or DNA or protons.
Wrong. We directly observe all of these as natural phenomena. Yes, when we look at the ancient Oklo reactor:
Meet Oklo, the Earth’s Two-billion-year-old only Known Natural Nuclear Reactor
Physicist Francis Perrin sat at a nuclearfuel-processing plant down in the south of France, thinking to himself: “This cannot be possible.” It was 1972.www.iaea.org
"but after complementary analyses, Perrin and his peers confirmed that the uranium ore was completely natural. " Details? This article seems more like a summary of what happened.
Because neither can contradict the Truth. And why do you believe the truth is "new"?
So then you were wrong when you admitted that people believed it before there were SDA?? Or this? Or are you still of two minds?Nope. It was invented in the last century by Seventh-Day Adventists.
EllenWhite.Org Website - Creation
Seventh-day Adventists believe that the entire universe came into being through divine creative acts ( Isa. 40:26 ; Ps. 19:1 ; 33:6 ), but that the narrative of Gen. 1 and 2 focuses primarily on this earth
Choose your ""hill to die on"". Otherwise, you will be unstable.
So which hill do you choose? Admit pre-SDA Yec belief or insist that SDA is the sole origin of that doctrine?
Yes, that's why K2KE has to change what "MAY HAVE" happened in the unobserved past all the time. 150 years of CONTROL. BILLIONS of $$$$ in FUNDING.
YET, man still cannot make their madeup story (K2KE and deeptime) infallible. It still is riddled with holes and blind spots to this day. Wrong assumptions do not lead to right conclusions. Neo darwinian evolution is like the leaky pipe, tape up a hole here and there, and a varying number holes form. And on, and on, a Sisyphean struggle.
God is not flawed. YEC is true. No sisyphean struggles.
The YEC pipe is solid. The deep time K2KE pipe is weak and leaky.
That doesn't necessitate Him to be flawed in character.
Why not accept God's sheer speed rather than wish to slow Him down?
"Jesus took millions of years to turn the water into wine! He didn't do it instantly!" Do you believe this? If not why not?
No, it still is.
1 Corinthians 15:26
You "revised" is into was!
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:26 - New American Standard Bible
The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
Romans 6:23.
The wages of sin is death. How can there be wages of sin without sin? If your "pre fall death" teaching was correct, that would make God unjust?
*miracle. And He did. So why write off the YEC truth as magic but not the Virgin Birth?
That's an assumption and you have nothing to back that He DID use nature to make the original creatures.
Barbarian
Member
He could have used any means He liked. The point is, the Bible says He used nature to produce living things. As I reminded you, nature is also a miracle.
It's just that YE creationists object to that particular miracle.
Barbarian
Member
Yep.. Even irreducibly random things would not be unexpected for God. Omniscient, you know.
That would be blurring the distinction between creation and Creator.
Barbarian
Member
So it's not about brains, after all? It's just genes? If one is a human, one has a living soul, but not otherwise? I think that's correct. What if there was a chimp genius, as smart a human (albeit at the lower range of normal)? Would the chimp thereby have a living soul?
People are animals. Primates, hominids. That stuff.
Not that big. But it's what you're talking about.
God didn't talk about evolution or DNA or protons, all of which we observe in nature.
Which we don't observe in nature.
Naturally. So we don't just have observational science showing evolution and protons, we also have evidence for them from millions of years ago.
You're confusing the idea of a young Earth with YE creationism. A recent age for the earth is only one of the false doctrines of YE creationism.
The difference for YE creationists is that they don't think protons and DNA destroy their new doctrines.
None of them can contradict the truth, being observed phenomena. But they all contradict YE creationism.
As you just learned, science shows what happened in the unobserved past. The notion that we can't know anything we didn't directly observe is so faulty, I'm surprised any YE creationist still tries to sell it.
We have his word in Genesis that the Earth brought forth living things. It's one of those parts that YE creationists reject.
As you know, engineers have come to realize that evolutionary processes are more efficient than design for very complex problems. YE creationists depend on their own wisdom, but God still knows better.
You've merely assumed that He had to do it instantly, when the evidence clearly shows that creation proceeds at whatever rate He wills it to do.
Death was defeated completely and finally by Jesus.
I'll go with God on this.
2 Timothy 1:10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
But you have to accept His gift to you. You can still walk away from Him and be subject to death. Don't do that.
It is. Brains of people are brains of people. Not of animals. Animals and human were made different.
God did not experiment creully on animals to try to get humans. Do you believe He experimented??
Raw IQ is not all there is to conciuosness or whether something has a soul or not.
AI "knows" a lot, too. But few if anyone thinks it has a soul.
There should be a 7th kingdom, the human kingdom. The status quo is wrong.
Fun fact: the number of Perfection in the Bible is 7.
Romans 1:22 , 23, and 25
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
God describes and condemns things that do this above. Evolution does this, because the creatures turn into better creatues.
Of birds. Dino into bird evolution. 4foot animals, like bears/hippos into whales. Or whatever. Crawling creatures, like "evolving fish".
Instead of God creating all the original kinds from no preexisting matter, Thiestic K2KE holds that He had to use preexisting matter.
Anyone can do ex materia. Only God can create ex Nihilo.
Which God is more Powerful?
One who used Ex materia creation like you think, or The One Who created ex Nihilo like the Bible states?
Barbarian
Member
He could have used any means He liked. The point is, the Bible says He used nature to produce living things. As I reminded you, nature is also a miracle.
It's just that YE creationists object to that particular miracle.
Genesis 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.
Which you refuse to accept. But it doesn't matter. He still did it.
It's just that YE creationists object to that particular miracle.
We have His word.
Genesis 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.
Which you refuse to accept. But it doesn't matter. He still did it.
First you say evolution is extra-Biblical. Now you say it is Biblical.
Choose a ""hill to die on"" and STICK with it. James 1:8
Yes. That is why Evo Algorithimz are a waste of "time". He ALREADY knows the best specs for animals BEFOREHAND. Your algorithms are a waste of time in God's big picture.
God is too fast for man to keep up. Man invented "millions of years".
If God used evo algo's, that implies He needed to learn what the algo would produce. If God learns that implies that He isn't Omniscient.
Fun fact: God did not use any ""processes"", design or chance, He just spoke and it was. Unless mabye you consider that a "process".
You object to the miracle of God's quickness.
Did Jesus take millions of years to turn the water into wine? Or was that just some story to represent a totally different thing???
YOU NEVER KNOW under Barbarian's mysterious, leave-you-guessing new theology that mixes K2KE and deeptime with Bible Truth!!
Reject K2KE and come to Biblical Knowledge and certainty!
God gave us knowledge, not vague stories. God did NOT start His Word with wild-card allegories like Barb thinks.
His ideology is designed to mingle with the worLd. He has never addressed this issue, because the truth is stronger than error.
The worLd hates the Biblical YEC truth because it is not its own. It is, in fact, revealed History by God. It is from the Word not the worLd.
The athiests have an iron grip influence on the west. His Bible-plus-naturalism ideology is fallout of this grip, accepting the corrosive Acid of Darwin with the vast ages too.
Is he of one mind? Seems not to be the case, as he has contradicted himself with regularity.
He accepts Jesus but thinks that God did not rest on the 7th day. He accepts that God did create, but he thinks that God did not kill ALL creatures outside the ark in the Flood and judge all man who wasnt on the Ark with the flood.
Please show me a SINGLE ANIMAL that has been observed emerging from the earth like a character from the movie " Walking Dead ". I doubt you can.
Abiogenesis is unprovable and unproven.
Do you know about the left hand right hand protein problem? One of the biggest monkey wrenches (pun intended) in N-D Evo!
We never see creatures pop up out of the dirt. They always come from other creatures.
Nearly everything God miracolously did in the past does NOT continue today. Youve conflated Genesis History with current day affairs. That is NOT the route to go.
Can you give a single verse to back "God is still making animals"?? God RESTED on the 7th day.
Physics is why animals can and do reproduce. Animals nowadays are full of flaws. God is not responsible for flaws. Man is, because he sinned.
Dn't you think God is powerful and Intelligent enough to get animals to make animals? He doesn't need to make them Himself. His creation (animals) can make more instances of them. Humans can, too. He just made the original kinds and humans, and now more organisms can reproduce thanks to the original ones. God does not need to make each and every single creature.
Which is more efficient? Hand making every car yourself, or building a factory? Why do we have factories?
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Barbarian
It is. Brains of people are brains of people. Not of animals. Animals and human were made different.
God did not experiment creully on animals to try to get humans. Do you believe He experimented??
Raw IQ is not all there is to conciuosness or whether something has a soul or not.
AI "knows" a lot, too. But few if anyone thinks it has a soul.
There should be a 7th kingdom, the human kingdom. The status quo is wrong.
Fun fact: the number of Perfection in the Bible is 7.
Romans 1:22 , 23, and 25
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
God describes and condemns things that do this above. Evolution does this, because the creatures turn into better creatues.
Of birds. Dino into bird evolution. 4foot animals, like bears/hippos into whales. Or whatever. Crawling creatures, like "evolving fish".
Instead of God creating all the original kinds from no preexisting matter, Thiestic K2KE holds that He had to use preexisting matter.
Anyone can do ex materia. Only God can create ex Nihilo.
Which God is more Powerful?
One who used Ex materia creation like you think, or The One Who created ex Nihilo like the Bible states?
It is. Brains of people are brains of people. Not of animals. Animals and human were made different.
God did not experiment creully on animals to try to get humans. Do you believe He experimented??
Raw IQ is not all there is to conciuosness or whether something has a soul or not.
AI "knows" a lot, too. But few if anyone thinks it has a soul.
There should be a 7th kingdom, the human kingdom. The status quo is wrong.
Fun fact: the number of Perfection in the Bible is 7.
Romans 1:22 , 23, and 25
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
God describes and condemns things that do this above. Evolution does this, because the creatures turn into better creatues.
Of birds. Dino into bird evolution. 4foot animals, like bears/hippos into whales. Or whatever. Crawling creatures, like "evolving fish".
Instead of God creating all the original kinds from no preexisting matter, Thiestic K2KE holds that He had to use preexisting matter.
Anyone can do ex materia. Only God can create ex Nihilo.
Which God is more Powerful?
One who used Ex materia creation like you think, or The One Who created ex Nihilo like the Bible states?
Then why does "what happened" change all the time? Not very reliable. We know that hitler murdered Jews, that is a fact and has not changed and will not change as long as theres a physucal world.
Evolutionary "science" about the past always changes because it is guessing and assumption. Not hard fact.
I get that Operational science changes. The present is dynamic and you never fully know what the future will bring.
But facts of history do not, so applying operational science approach to history is wrong and a stupid premise.
Silly strawman. All or nothing fallacy.
As you learned, this is a strawman and an all or nothing fallacy.
Barbarian
Member
Nope. Many, many YE creationsts try that ploy. But good to know that you realize we can learn about when on many millions of years ago, from the evidence. There are certainly YE creationists like Kurt Wise, Todd Wood, Harold Coffin, John Woodmorappe, and others who never pretended otherwise.
Barbarian
Member
Doesn't. But we do get a clearly and clearer picture as we get more evidence. For example, the fossil record showed that mammals evolved from synapsid reptiles, but as more and more fossils were found, the details of how that evolution occurred were found.
We know that mammals evolved from reptiles and that will not change. We might dig up more details as to the way it happened, just like our understanding of the Nazi regime has changed as more information became known.
Your assumption is incorrect. It's based on evidence, as you have seen. This is why as more and more evidence accumulates, we get a clearer and clearer picture of the evolutionary past. Would you like me to show you some more examples?
Barbarian
Member
Humans, like all animals, were brought forth from the Earth as He made it to do. The difference is that God directly gives us a living soul.
I've never bought the story that God didn't want animals to suffer, but was forced by Adam to make it so.
It was no experiment. God knew that evolutionary processes are more effecient than design for complex problems. Man is just know beginning to realize that and apply His way to solve problems.
But you think brains are? No, it's not a physical thing, nor is is anything science can explain. Why not listen to what God says?
Again, you're trying to force God and his creation into nature. He's too big for that. We are animals, but thanks to God's gift of a living soul, that's not all we are. Let it be God's way.
Attempting to explain man's unique place in biological terms is a major error. YE creationists claiming to be wise and inventing their own explanations would do better to rely on God. The image of God is in our souls and minds, not in our bodies:
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.